Procharger Build - Blow Through Maf Supercharger system.
 

Procharger Build - Blow Through Maf Supercharger system.

Big update on page 5. 05/29/2011

After having my 2007 RX8 6MT for 3.5 Years I have decided it was fianly time to give my RX8 the power it deserves. I have been using the car for weekend drives, the occasional grocery or kid run but mostly for HPDE track days.

Before I go into the build I want to describe what I am starting with.

Check out my latest youtube video at the track. Note: The tune I had was the cob stage 1 tune with the injectors and ignition dwell changed by me. Mazdamaniac had fixed my tune but I failed to download it off his server. The increase in MAF GPS with the MM tune is about 20 GPS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/HighwayR.../1/DBfS_eCeeoM

I feel I have done all the NA engine, cooling, suspension, brake and exterior mods I want to do and for the last year they have all been geared toward getting ready for FI.

List of Engine/Powertrain NA Mods:

BHR Ignition
BHR Fuel Pump Upgrade
BHR Lightweight flywheel
Exedy Mazdaspeed Clutch
AEM Intake
Link for above mods http://blackhaloracing.com/products-page/
Access port and tune from Mazdamaniac http://www.mazdamaniac.com/cobb/accessport.htm
Upgraded P2 injectors and flow matched P1 and Secondary Injectors flow flow test 324/420/840. http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=rx8injwrite
Ceramic Coated header from DNA Motorsports http://www.dnamotorsport.com/Mazda/M...erformance.htm
TurboXS 3" exhaust with racepipe (track only) https://www.rx8club.com/vendor-classifieds-155/turboxs-rx-8-catback-exhaust-w-free-racepipe-%24499-184524/
Turbocs Midpipe with 100 CPI cat from davesport weilded localy. http://www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/DCAT100.html
Port and polished Throttlebody and coolant by-pass mod. http://bdc.cyberosity.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13529
Axiel Flow Short Shifter http://www.axialflow.com/products.htm

With the Above engine mods I was gettting MAF reading in the 230-240 GPS range from 8200-8800 RPM. It should be noted that I did not have MM finish tunning the vehicle NA.

Cooling Mods:

BHR Griffen Radiator http://blackhaloracing.com/products-...bhr-radiator6/
Evans NPG-R waterless coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/npg-r
3 piece ebay silicone hoses.
Bulk silicone heater hose http://www.stylinmotors.com/index.html
Mazsport canister trio. Overflow Bottle, catch can and washer bottle.
Oil cooler mod to improve air flow https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...cooler+mod+diy

Exterior

Full mazdaspeed body kit
Seibon TS Vented Hood painted VR.
Clear Corners
Debadged
APR GTC-200 Wing for the track.
Custom 4" splitter for the track.

Suspension, brakes, tires and wheels

KW Variant 3 Coilovers, lowered approximately 1" and Corner Balanced by Eric Gauthier of Suspension performance in Mountain View California. http://suspensionperformance.com/home
Progress Tech adjustable Sway Bars front and rear http://blackhaloracing.com/products-...ch-sway-bars2/
Racing Beat Front Sway Bar end links http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
Mazdaspeed front and rear strut tower bars.
Beatrush aluminum under engine panel. http://www.therpmstore.com/product_i...kndbo6fvatt6q3
TC Sportline undercar brace. Bought new off ebay

Street Wheels and tires: Enkei RPM2 wheels 18X8 +40, powdercoated to match grey mazdaspeed body kit trim. F225/45/18 R245/40/18

Track Wheels and tires: Enkei Black RPF1 18X9.5 +45 wheels 275/35/18 Hoosier Koni race tires.

Wet track wheels and tires: SSR integral A2 18X9 +38MM wheel, 275/35/18 Hoosier wets.

Stainless steel brake lines

Front brakes: Racing Brake BBK Enkei offset with 2-piece Open Slot Rotors with Hawk DTC60 Track Pads and Hawk HPS for the street.
http://www.racingbrake.com/RX8_FRONT...2-381-4111.htm

Rear Brakes: TCE Rear BBK with 13" Willwood Gas Slotted rotors. Uses stock caliper with relocation bracket. Hawk DTC60 Track Pads and Hawk HPS for the street.
http://www.tceperformanceproducts.co...s.pl?record=26


Interior:

MSD Dashhawk OBD2 reader display
Racing beat guage pod and adaptors http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm
AEM Digital Guages. Oil temp and pressure. Boost/Vacuum

The supercharger.

The supercharger kit comes from DNA Motorsports in Australia (sold and raced in USA by mazdatrix) http://www.dnamotorsport.com/Mazda/M...erformance.htm and is designed to be ran with a piggyback style ecu called the powermod. I heard good things about the powermod, but I wanted to use the accessport because I felt the end result would be more power, better driveability and fuel economy. Plus I already had it and liked the work jeff was doing on NA and FI cars.

The kit can be purchased as a 6PSI kit or the race kit 8-12 PSI depending on the pulley size. I have a 8PSI and a 12PSI pulley. The race kit comes with the headers and upgraded injectors. If you want this kit, dont get the supplied injectors. Use my link above and mod your stock injectors. Cheaper and they work. Plus DNA has you install the larger 600CC injectors in the Secondary position not the P2 Position as recommend by MM.

Both kits include all the brackets, supercharger, a giant air to air intercooler and a battery relocation kit (not really needed, save your money and just use a DIY to install your battery in the truck).

The Procharger I have is the C2 1100CFM compressor. It appears DNA has gone to a bigger D-1SC 1400 CFM compressor. Down the road I may switch if the brackets are the same.

I am not going to go into the pros vs cons of a procharger compaired to a turbo or other supercharger kits. I liked this kit and felt it was the best kit for my uses. I feel it will be a great track and street car. Plus it will be one of a kind, or atleast the first procharged blow through maf system on a rx8.

Notes about a procharger: A procharger is a centrifical supercharger and functions like a turbocharger except that it is belt driven and has a self contained oiling system. Because it is belt driven the air flow/boost is determined by the pulley size and engine RPM. So just like a NA RX8, a procharged RX8 will have a very steep HP Curve. So a brief run down on how this kit works. There are 2 brackets installed on the front of the motor that replace the alternator and a/c tensioner brackets and double as the compressor bracket. There is a new crankshaft pulley to power the compressor. Even at low RPM the compressor will product more air then the engine needs for idleing and low to moderate acceleration. For this reason, a surge/by-pass valve is installed prior to the intercooler. When the engine is producing vacuum the valve stays open and excess air is recirculated back to the air filter. Once you open the throttle and reduce vacuum the valve starts to close and is not fully closed until 0 vacuum is obtained. Basicly any half to full throttle application will cause 0 vacuum and close the valve.

The charged air is then ran through the front mount air to air intercooler, through the maf and into the engine. The kit was designed by DNA with a 3" maf tube, no screens and the intake vacuum lines pre maf. This will not work with a MAF based system. So first thing I had to do is cut the intake tube and use a 3"-3.5" silicone coupler to attach to the AEM MAF intake tube. I also installed the vacuum lines in the stock location. While on the topic of vacuum lines. When I had my upper and lower intake manifold off, I replaced all my stock vacuum lines with silicone lines and zip tied them on to prevent any lines from coming off during boost. Plus they look cool. :)

Now with the kit described I want to bring things up to current status.

I installed the kit with an 8PSI pulley at the end of May. I already had the headers installed, battery relocated to the trunk, fuel injectors and vacuum lines done. So I installed the kit in about 6 hours. Would have been less if I had the directions (stolen by my 8 year old son) and a stud removal tool or a pair of vise grips.

I already got my base FI tune from MM so once installed I flashed my ECU and it started right up, idled perfect and I drove it down the street without issues. It is obvious to me that the base FI tune is very safe. My STFT and LTFT at idle and cruise are not bad but my AFR when accelerating and going into boost are fairly rich. This is a good thing, this allows me to drive the vehicle while I am waiting for MM to send me my first modification. I am between 2-3 weeks since I sent my datalogs off. I check the page everyday for my updated map.

Impressions: First thing you will notice is that the kit is loud at idle and low speed. Once you go into boost, all you hear is the exhaust. The reason for this is that the gear drive is a little loud but mostly the air being recirculated through the by-pass valve (will address this latter in plans and goals). Power and driveability are great. My gass mileage is down but that is to be expect with the rich tune and me playing around. Power is hard to guage because I am babying the car. I dont go more then half throttle, I never stomp on the gas pedal or go above 6K RPM. Even with that, I have seen 3-4 PSI boost at 5-6K RPM. Remember the airflow in linear so when you double the RPM the air flow and boost tripples. So at 4.5K RPM on an 8PSI pulley I should be seeing just under 3PSI boost. When I go to the 12PSI pulley I will be seeing 4PSI at 4.5K RPM. I have been monitoring the MAF readings at I have already seen 260-280 GPS of air. 4 PSI 6K RPM 1/2-3/4 throttle. NA I was getting a max of 230-240 GPS at 8K+ RPM. at 6K RPM my NA MAF was 200 GPS. So I am already seeing an improvment of 30-40%.

Plans and Goals: My first step is to dial in the tunning with the 8PSI Pulley and make sure I am not having any cooling issues. Second is to install a larger air filter and build a cold air intake box for both the filter and the by-pass valve. The kit is designed with the air filter directly above the radiator. I dont like starting with 200+ deg air. I makes for a hotter intake charge plus the intercooler has to work harder resulting in the air to the radiator being hotter. Plus I hope the air box will insulate and reduce the sound of the air going through the by-pass valce.

Power: On the 8PSI Pulley I expect to see around 300 RWHP. Of course I wont be getting the vehicle dyno tested but I will messure MAF readings and let the AP do a HP calculation. Once comfortable with 8PSI I will install the larger 12PSI pulley which has had a friction treatment done to prevent belt slipage http://www.carbiniteracing.com/. On 12psi I expect over 350+ RWHP at 9K RPM.

Mods to come:

SOHN OMP adaptor. Completed.
Air injection delete. Completed.
Ceramic coating of air box and piping.
Water/Meth Injection. Not sure if I will but I am open to the idea.

So thats it for now. Let the questions, comments and skeptics start coming.

Nice. Your car sounds great in the vid. Looking forward to you build!

Very nice! I loved my procharger on my vette. That procharger idle sound becomes familiar after a while, though everyone will still ask if you have a bad power steering pump......

For a long time I was against a centrifugal supercharger on a rotary but I have recently changed this view. It's hard to argue the cons of ANY form of forced induction compared to another if you are driving around with no forced induction.

Informed comments on the various types of F/I can be made by plenty of people who drive N/A. After all, we have people of high regard around here issuing opinions about the RX-8 whom have never even owned an RX-8.

Right on! Great post.

Thanks.

I have my stock throttle body, I might switch back and forth to see the difference. I know you were wanting someone with FI to test it for you, not sure if anyone did yet.

you have wrench time and for that you have my respect.
Glad no debate of types of FI.
I have a track friend running a procharger on a honda S2000 and it is sweet.
Curious--why did they include headers in the kit?

Do watch youre heat, change the procharger oil after a track event.
About the w/m system---i would not run without one.
It is of so much benefit i cant imagine why folks dont.
i am sure you have done your reading and edumafacation on it.
My personnel reasons (have the pettit kit)
1 -never know what the octane really is anymore?
2- best charge cooling--- period. i also have a nozzle before my blower so i can also cool the blower.
3- decarbon's the engine
4- helps make your sparkplugs pretty.

Again---sweet car.
Lots of blue hoses:)
May what to considered the oil pressure regulator mod from Mazmart and better motor mounts?
We are also looking into the stainless steel oil filters.
I did my own TB and it does help in the midrange a little.
OD

This looks like a very clean build.
How much did having the blower belt-driven help during maf tuning?

Yes lots of wrench time, I dont even mention the different exhaust intake, ignition and suspension combos.

Procharger says 6K miles on the oil, I will do it every other street oil change or 3K miles if I have a track day.

DNA said the header made power with the supercharger, but the funny thing was that they did all their test with the stock cat and catback installed. I am sure with the 3" catless exhaust the header makes an even bigger difference.

Yes I watch both my oil temp and my ECT (with dash hawk). I will try to stay in the normal heat ranges but feel I have a safety cushion with the Evans NPG-R. It has a 400 Deg boiling temp at 7PSI. That gives me a lot of wiggle room. I was introduced to the stuff by a turbo miata owner running it and he had ECT nearing 300DEG with no failure or detonation. Engines blow because the water/coolant has localized boiling and the local temps go through the roof. I believe that our engines could probably survive running 250-260deg or higher with no problem, as long as the coolant doesnt boil and evans npg-r wont. I am just no sure I want to be the one to test it.

Strongly considering a W/M injection, just need to do one thing at a time. Thanks for the reasons.

I have not heard much about the mazmart oil pressure regulator mod. But I wil look into it.

I dont want to do mounts if I dont have to but suggestion noted.

Stainless steel oil filters? Hmmm

Haven't got that far yet. Still on the base tune and driving it easy.

Great start Highway . I'm confused though . I thought you had installed this kit ages ago ?

Highway8

Have you seen Mazdatrix setup? What are they doing to get 400whp?

they didn't - 400 was BS . They even admitted as much .

shhhhh :)

301 at the rear wheels at 8PSI.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/rx8-redline-time-attack-197714/

With the 12psi pulley 400+ crank is likely for them and me.

Really? How do you know it was BS? Not saying you are BSing but just curious. There is someone on 8web with this setup claiming 400whp but he does not post much details so no idea if he is full of it.

Here:

Thanks MM.

Thanks for sharing your build - I was waiting to read this.

interesting thoughts on the heat. I have always thought and been edumicated that heat is critical in the rotary due to the different properties of the metals in the engine and the corrisponding expansion/contraction .Example: sparkplug hole cracks.
If we have a certain pressure in the cooling system then should it not have the capacity to handle the hot spots---up to a certain point of course? Inquiring minds want to know.
OD

The issue isn't hot spots, it's the localized boiling that can occure in those hotspots. If you get localized boiling, the coolant vaporizes and is no longer able to remove any heat. So the metal temps quickly rises. I really don't know the failure temp of the engine, but I'm sure without boiling it is much higher then any of us have gone. Read up on evans npg for more accurate info. I know team runs npg-r. Curious how hot they have gotten. I wish someone with a week motor ready for a rebuild could test this for us. Turn off the fans and see how long till she blows.

i had the c2 on mine and couldnt keep one alive for more then 2 months
if you look on their site (thanks to jeffrey) thats me
hence the change to the D series
belts also was a bitch there was no between it either slipped or blew up
but it apprently was corrected on the redign to the D series blower
oil i changed every 500 miles due to the heat here in the desert (and the down time always changing blowers)
ive attached my rebuild from one of my blowers that nuked
turnaround was 2 months. dna was kind enough to lend me their test car's blower during this downtime at which it blew up also.

aside from that it was awsome
sound bites from idle and reving are on my site here
if people want to hear what yours is like (which is mine lol)
http://forced-inductions.com/RX8_Charger/Charger.mp3
http://forced-inductions.com/RX8_Charger/Revving.mp3

At 260 degrees the motor un-sandwiches.

Do you know if the brackets had to be changed when they went to the d series blower?

Mazdatrix had belt slippage issues on their race car, they solved the problem with the pulley coating which is what I have done to my 12 psi pulley.

I wonder how much effect the location of the blower and specificaly the air intake had on the life of the blower. Sitting above the radiator and 200+ deg air cant be good. Thats why I plan to build a cold air intake box.

I dont doubt with a regular water/coolant mix it will come apart at 260, but at 260 degrees that coolant mixture is boiling and no longer cooling the motor at all. So there are parts in the motor reaching temps far above 260. With evans npg you wont have the boiling, huge localized temp increases or engine failure. How hot can you go if the boiling can be controlled? I have no idea but its nice to know my coolant wont be boiling.

On my previous RX8 my coolant reached 271f due to both of my coolant fans failing in NYC tunnel traffic no less.

The motor went on to live a long and healthy life .. until the car was totaled. :(

The issue is the housings would expand enough that the coolant seal pops out of place.

This is using a nearly 100% distilled water mix with redline water wetter. I'm not sure if there was a stock radiator cap or not.

Either way, there is no reason that an engine should see temperatures that high under normal operating conditions or even race conditions. If you're seeing temperatures above 240 degrees then your cooling system needs to be looked at.

No cooling system or overheating issues at this point for me. I am using Evans NPG-R for more of a safety net but aiming to keep things in the normal range.

a couple of times on my procharged rx8 in 125f+ with 98% humidity (with hood or without hood) i did manage to max out the oem temp guage
(no logging or aftermarket guage at that time) with a kayo rad, mazmart waterpump and tstat.
it would only happen obiously after flying down the emirates road at 240KM+ then taking a very short off ramp.
i ended up installing a zergo 3600cfm push fan to the front which solved my issues. the oem fans were operating normally.
(plus helped with the a/c alot specially at idle) i even played with the oem plastic skidplate and made an aluminum one.
all i can say is dont drive at all without it because you overheat very quickly.

Sent an email to DNA to see what they have to say about upgrading to the d1-sc compressor. What required and performance advantages. Its a bigger compressor capible of more power, but thats not why I would upgrade.

Response from DNA: Compressor is geared for same power levels, they changed so they would not need to stock more then 1 supercharger. All their other kits use the D1SC. New brackets are required, CNC Billet Aluminum is Pricey so I think I will be holding off.

Also, according to DNA Jeffery (talic) is the only Procharged RX8 with a premature compressor failure. They said something about 200KM/h+ runs for over an hour straight in the hot desert is not good for the blower. His blower had extreme blasting through the impeller.

The d1-sc is available with a helical gear set which will make it run much quieter. Plus it uses 6OZ of oil not 3oz. So I suspect that may help it last longer. I was reading and heard that procharger will upgrade from one to another for about $1000-$1200 and they might have the same mounting bracket. So my only mods would be the pulley size, airfilter (maybe) and the intecooler pipe I might need a reducer coupler.

I've been running Evans NPG-R coolant since 2005.

So obviously you like the stuff. But do you find it runs hotter, cooler or is it just a safety net?

this pic is from Prestone. based on 50/50 mixes. note this is at atmosphere so depending on the cap you have these values would have to be adjusted for vapor pressure

http://www.outdoorpowerequipment.com...T_Figure02.jpg

so what would it be with the oem cap?
OD

I dont know exactly, but taken from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system3.htm

With a 50/50 mix the non-pressureized temp is 223F and in a 14-15psi system (ours is 13psi) that temp is increased another 45deg. So, in the 260-270 range.

However, we all know that some parts of the motor will be hotter then ever and not all areas will have the same pressure, so locaized boiling can occur. Again, my reason for using evans NPG.

I also dont find it a coincidence that the the claimed failing temp for the motor is 260 and the boiling point is around 260-270.

It runs a bit hotter as far as the overall coolant temperature, but that's because it's doing exactly as you describe. Boil-over is a thing of the past for the same reasons.

Evans recommends using the OE radiator cap with NPG-R.

Were they running the standard belt tension? I would hate to add more deflection to the shafts.

I believe mazdatrix is using a different tensioner to get the belt tighter but that didnt help much. The big help was the pulley coating. I have read up on the coating and it is becoming popular with many superchargered vehicles. Even when people thought their belt wasnt slipping, the coating improved boost from reduced slippage.

Hello, thx for your topic Highway.


I'm close to buy this kit, but i really have to do things simply, rotary is really missing some specialists around here. Do you think the mazdatrix's set for their procharger stage 2 ( the "bigger" pulley ) would be easy to install for a random professionnal guy, not a rotary specialist as i say ? Should i go for the low end set, to avoid some installation troubles ?

And last thing, do i have to upgrade some components on my car ? I do no have anything for the engine by now, only an useless K&N air filter, AP pulley, magnecor ignition wires and an exedy stage 2 + flywheel waiting for installation. On exhaust line, a knight sports header, exotic speed catless pipe and xs power catback... Should i upgrade with a CAI, or add any sort of ram air etc.. ?

Give us news, and videos ! ;) Thanks a lot, and sorry for my english ;(

First off, Mazdatrix does not make the kit, they only sell to the USA market on behalf of DNA Motorsports. They stock nothing and would have to order from DNA in Australia. So you should contact DNA about purchasing a kit, not mazdatrix.

DNA changed up the kit and how the sell it. They are using a bigger D1 compressor which is available in a quiet gear verson if you want a more stealth vehicle. Also they no longer sell a stage 1 or stage 2, I believe its just a choice of pulley size (PSI amount).

The kit works fine with a stock vehicle but upgrades like Ignition, lightweight flywheel and exhaust will help. The KIT incldues a nice ceramic coated header but you could use the knightsport and just dont have DNA ship/sell their header. The kit also comes with a battery relocation kit (trunk) but you dont need it either if you want to do your own relocation.

A aftermarket or ram intake wont work with the kit, except maf intake tube if you want to have it as a blow through maf system like I have done. In which case you will need a AEM intake and a flash device like the Cobb Accessport.

Fuel injectors: The kit comes with 600CC injectors but you can have your stock injectors modified for less.

The kit is not hard to install for any mechanic or person with basic knowledge and handtools.

FYI: Bigger pulley means lower PSI. Smaller pulley spins faster and is the higher PSI.

The most important thing with any FI kit is tunning. So be sure you have a tunner lined up before buying any kit.

Hope that helps.

Ty highway, i know for DNA, on their site, they sell the kit for 12000 AUD, on mazdatrix, 7995 US dollars.... That's why i was looking for mazdatrix first.

For me in euros, it means 8100 EUR on DNA motorsports and 5600 EUR with mazdatrix... This is an huge difference :scared: I can't understand an as big gap... Gotta send a mail to each one to know more about it.


Well. I got a tuner close to my home who's interested, but i was also wondering if an hymee pro-tuner would work.

Ty again.

Mazdatrix has not updated their price, it has to be more. But keep in mind the price will go down as you remove parts like the header, powermod ecu (if you go with hymee or the AP) and injectors.

Yes the hymee pro-tuner would work (its a flash device) and you could set it up as a blow through system. The key to the blow through system is having a proper MAF tube with screens. AEM intake is the easiest way. Just cut the pipe DNA supplys and use a reducer coupler to connect the DNA pipe with the AEM pipe.

i did the install in my drive way in 11 hours using the mazda rx8 oem jack and a simple tool case.
only pain in the ass is the lucky number 10 on the uim but everyone faces that problem. its almost impossible to reach either need small hands or universal joint to use a wratchet.
the only issue you may face with the stage 2 is the header bolts
but i just double wrenched it and they came out. other then that no reason to not go stage 2

secondly if you buy directly from dnamotorsports it uses the p series charger and will actually cost more then buying the older c2 series from mazdatrix
however with my exerience with the c2s when it dies switch it over the the p series and get an updated map from dnamotorsports

as for upgrades a larger exhaust, some bhr coils, fresh plugs. and upgraded pump is all the neccessities
however clutch/flywheel. mazmart pump, radiator, oil pans, 2stroke sohn, etc etc wouldnt hurt either

Thank you too talic, i'm mailing mazdatrix atm.

Email gone, i'll send on to DNA too...

Ok, mazdatrix confirmed the price and if i do not need the header and the powermod, it s a way cheaper, like 6500 dollars for the most efficient pull, the smallest.

I m ordering in two week if everything's fine. :)

heads up to rig up an intake for maf based and the cobb would be difficult
and not sure if anything other then the powermod would work best.
but if you can manage new pipe work im sure the cobb would make it nice
keep in mind the recirculation valve they give you from procharger doesnt seal 100%
and makes a very loud pop sound under boost since its a simple butterfly valve

no it's easy, read my build. I am using the coob.