Rob Tomlin

Good point!

Omicron

EXACTLY!!!

slavearm

I believe they are using the Rick Shaw piggyback. The other thing is, the car is bogging during gear shifts, that tells me the quarter should be quicker when they wring that out. I just got all the kinks worked out of my CZ unit, and actually picked up .15 by fixing the bog during a shift. IT will probably be higher on a FI car.

I expect the car will get faster. My impression from seeing the car at 7stock was that they were really just trying to get the car together for the show so that they could show everyone that they had FI for the 8.

Oh yah, if they are using the emanage (which I don't think they are), Greddy just released a patch for it for the RX8!!!. It now supports their hotwire MAF and ingition timing. I haven't played with it much, but looks like it could solve some problems. IT will be interesting to see how much Greddy is dealing with the MAF when they finally release their kit.

Slavearm

(Uh sorry about going off on many tangents there).

Red Devil

Not at all, good information on the emanage changes...

rotarygod

If that's true, that will help alot.

sea-rx8

Like EVERYONE else they too are having problems tuning the RX-8

To quote the article "Pettit assures that it's new ECU programming should remedy the problems"

So ya...the ECU is a beast NO ONE has yet tamed

Ellar

Does Mazda help aftermarket companies at all with the ECU, or does everybody have to reverse engineer the code? I'd think it'd help Mazda if they were open about the ECU programming. It's not like Chevy is going to come out with a rotory competitor tomorrow just because Mazda makes the ECU code public domain. The benefit would be you're selling a performance car with as many quality power adders out there as a 5.0 Mustang.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

That is correct from the information I have. That blower is rated in the 300 odd HP range. The one I am using is rated in the 400 odd HP range. They are both Autorotors. From what I can see in the pics, we will be mounting / packaging ours considerably differently.

The fact that they gained 4 MPH is a good indication of the extra power this unit is putting out.

I went to the drags with a mate who is testing a new PD blower (Eaton roots). He made something like 375 HP at the wheels on his blown LS1 Monaro (Aussie spec Pontiac GTO). His E/T didn't go down much, as he now has problems with traction, but his MPH was up by about 5.

Can't wait until I here the blower whine and rotary combo for the first time.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I am slightly intrigued by the idea of FI but with the success I have had with nitrous I still cannot justify the hassle of any form of FI. Nitrous is cheaper to install and run, has no adverse effects on the handling balance, and only stresses the engine when you want it to. Plus, it leads to a less complicated install. Perhaps when boost levels are such that an additional 100 h.p. is available, I'll reconsider the FI.

Charles

wakeech

not quite it. that is manifold pressure increase (some of which comes from heating the air while it's compressed at less than 100% efficiency), which doesn't have a lot of bearing on true increase in the mass of air being inducted into the engine. it's not loss, it's straight inefficiency with the compressor type and system design.

wakeech

i think what everyone is missing here is that a turbo or supercharger isnt' something you just add to your motor, it is completely changing in a whole way the dynamics of the machine. firing compressed N2O into your intake charge is a "power adder". "bolt on modifications" are intended to perform the same functions as the stock units, but more efficiently leaving more mechanical energy to move the car forward (doesn't actually work very well with this car, obviously).

a supercharging system, with either a blower or a turbo or whatever you choose to use, changes the whole dynamic. all the pretty sucky turbo kits we've seen so far act like they're something you harness the engine with. this pettit motor has also obviously been horribly executed, and it's like they did as little to change the motor as they could (instead of changing it as much as they could concieve of). it's entirely the wrong way to go about building a car like this.

if they're going to go to such an extent, why isn't anyone taking their motor apart yet, being that they're already happy to invalidate their warranty??

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

If I am allowed to answer your question, Wakeech, I would say that the reason most of us do not want to disassemble our engines is because we have a firm belief(or maybe mere hope) in the strength of the engine as it is from the factory. Companies who are designing such systems also know that most of us who would purchase off-the-shelf systems are not likely to remove the engine from the bay. We also tend to see other engines with 10:1 compression ratios and turbos running nicely. The key, as you and others have alluded to, is in the tuning. The concept of stuffing more air in the engine is a fairly simple one, mechanically. As you also mention, doing so changes the operating dynamics of the engine itself. So here we all stand with one of the first working examples of FI and now the next step of fine-tuning is just around the corner. If we can wait a few more weeks or months we may also have a working example of FI on a Renesis that runs as well as everyone thinks it should. My own trepidations have been centered around several issues and I tend to think that many of those who are gravitating toward FI are doing so simply out of familiarity. One thing I find curious is that many of those who are the loudest cynics are also those making the greatest demands with the least patience. I guess that's modern american culture.

Charles

wakeech

sure, tune it all you want but what i'm saying is that if you're dying for ultimate performance, why're you trying to spend too much money to do everything wrong in the first place?

and i agree that this "FI" thing is getting hyped to a stupid amount.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Would you mind taking a moment to define terms and phrases like "ultimate", "too much money", and "everything wrong"?

I have certain measureable goals that I wish to attain in my upgrades and the first tier was to get the RX to be as quick, if not quicker, than the Chevy I used to race. So far, I have cleared the first hurdle much sooner than I thought. The interesting thing, for me, is that the fuel mileage, driveability, reliability, and some other aspects are similar between the two cars.

Charles

rotarygod

If you want a car that drives like normal most of the time but has added power every once in a while, then nitrous is a good, cheap way to do it. There is no complications of installing a supercharger, intercooler, etc.

If you want more power all the time and need to use this power around a track such as a road course or an autocross track, then forced induction may be the way to go. Then you need to narrow down which form of forced induction best suits your goals.

Using nitrous is in no way doing it wrong. Neither is using a turbo or a supercharger. Each has it's own purpose depending on the goals of the owner and how they intened to drive the car. There is a place for everything. In some ways, the original manufacturer could say that anyone not leaving their car alone just as it was built, is doing it wrong.

Charles, if you aren't a road course person and prefer drag racing and straight line acceleration, nitrous is great. Nitrous has the same power potential as any other form of power adder. Again, it's all in the tuning. It doesn't mean that it's intended application is the same though.

Omicron

In my case, I simply want to bolt on the most effective power added I can until the warranty runs out. After that, I plan to pull the engine and get it built for "ultimate" performance. Yeah, I know bolting on FI will void a lot of the warranty - but not all of it. And if I do wind up messing things up badly enough to require the engine be pulled/replaced and I have to pay for it, then I guess I'll get to my 4 year plan sooner rather than later.

But as someone pointed out earlier, we're right on the cusp here now folks. Someone (Pettit) has finally come out with a viable FI kit, it just needs to be tuned correctly. I'm sure they'll get it soon. And after that happens, we'll see a whole bunch of kits start hitting the market. And that'll be a good thing. :D

IZoomZoomI

now the question is which one to pick?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Next year, or when I am next able, I am intending on getting involved in the road course-type events. Perhaps I'll then more appreciate the FI option. It's not that I don't see the benefits of FI, it's just that the early systems are not fully developed enough for me to take that large of a risk. With the help of others on this forum I was able to deduce that the Renesis would handle certain levels of power so I opted for the mystique of nitrous. Plus, it is cheaper overall. I made a few "passes" this past weekend and I am still amazed at how little nitrous is used in the typical weekend of racing. BTW, I got paired up with an '04 GTO. Another one who found out that the new RX-8 is not as slow as they have heard. Three times he found out that he made the wrong purchase.

Charles

IZoomZoomI

hate to sway off topic... what type of times/speed were you getting with the nitrous? I would imagin bein 13's being since the gto is not a slow car...

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

For the full story read through the two nitrous threads I started a while back. I did some G-Tech runs w/o nitrous and recorded times between 14.2-14.4 at 100+/-mph. With the 55 shot I am recording times around 13.3-13.4 at 109 mph. These seem to be confirmed by the vehicles I have compared my performance against in the "real world". There was a slightly modified '87 Mustang in the mix but I forgot to mention that one because it was over before we hit second gear. To be able to run these kinds of numbers this early is comforting and encouraging to me. Next summer will be even more fun. Thanks for asking.

Charles

davefzr

Exactly..... I dont quite understand this but one would think that if these companies advertised 10% of what canzoomer did with his mod, they would have a lot of pre-orders by now...

That kind of confuses me.... The only information we have gathered so far is really what consumers have asked of the mfg's....

Dont get that...

murix

I think this is more of a case of a diamond in the rough. Testing is on what is essentially a development mule. More impressive is the fact it even works at all.

Personally, for me, if I want to go faster on a road course, I think the money is better spent in tires and driving lessons. :P

Speedsource seems to be doing just fine without forced induction.

davefzr

True.. I wonder how much weight savings they had in the car... the Mazda Speed series cars go 0 to 60 in 3 seconds.. but then they weigh less than half of a RX8....