Int-X or EMU?
01-15-2008, 10:00 PM
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Int-X or EMU?
I'm willing to turbo my 8 later soon. Unfortunatly my 8 is 5MT version from German market.
When I imported this car from German market two years ago, I didnt know there were 6MT version.
Anyway my 8 becames most rare car in my country since we have NO Mazda in nation. Maybe only 4 or 5 units exist in the whole country I guess.
There are two type of EMS under discussion in this forum.
Most people seem to use EMU or INT-X.
when we go for FI especially a turbo, we mainly need to manage proper AFR and the ignition timing which depands on the boost.
We could manage those things with EMU or Int-X but what are differences between both of them? I know EMU is a piggyback which intercept the
original signals plus and minus however it works like a standalone for the injector. Also I know the Int-X is a standalone which controls directly
the injector and the ignition timing.
what else the Int-X can do something more than EMU? Does the Int-X remove the speed limit and raise the rev limit point?
Which one has the hardness for the 4-ports engine?
Mazsport, MazdaManic, Esmeril and Greddy Who can provide me the turbo kit?
I'm sorry for too many questions but I will much appreciate if you guys post a good advice.
When I imported this car from German market two years ago, I didnt know there were 6MT version.
Anyway my 8 becames most rare car in my country since we have NO Mazda in nation. Maybe only 4 or 5 units exist in the whole country I guess.
There are two type of EMS under discussion in this forum.
Most people seem to use EMU or INT-X.
when we go for FI especially a turbo, we mainly need to manage proper AFR and the ignition timing which depands on the boost.
We could manage those things with EMU or Int-X but what are differences between both of them? I know EMU is a piggyback which intercept the
original signals plus and minus however it works like a standalone for the injector. Also I know the Int-X is a standalone which controls directly
the injector and the ignition timing.
what else the Int-X can do something more than EMU? Does the Int-X remove the speed limit and raise the rev limit point?
Which one has the hardness for the 4-ports engine?
Mazsport, MazdaManic, Esmeril and Greddy Who can provide me the turbo kit?
I'm sorry for too many questions but I will much appreciate if you guys post a good advice.
01-16-2008, 12:28 AM
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I'm thinking about to spend $6,000~$7,000 for the turbo. But I want to make sure what EMS would good for me. I think if there is a turbo kit for autotranny version, then won't be different with mine. I'm targeting to use 8 ~10 psi for the boost. Could you guys tell me why people recommand Int-X more? The Int-X supports 4-ports harness?
01-16-2008, 08:05 PM
#8
Both of your EMS choices will work on the 4-port motor.
Really, you need to decide what your power and drivability goals are - realistically.
What are the emissions and tax laws in your country? If you have inspection programs and such, that might be a consideration.
Really, it comes down to your realistic power goals and how much "peripheral" equipment you are willing to get.
There are certain minimums - proper instrumentation, including a WBO2S and a boost controller - but there are other upgrades that can make the project quickly spiral out of control if they are not part of your plan.
In short - your particular model in your location is not a handicap.
Really, you need to decide what your power and drivability goals are - realistically.
What are the emissions and tax laws in your country? If you have inspection programs and such, that might be a consideration.
Really, it comes down to your realistic power goals and how much "peripheral" equipment you are willing to get.
There are certain minimums - proper instrumentation, including a WBO2S and a boost controller - but there are other upgrades that can make the project quickly spiral out of control if they are not part of your plan.
In short - your particular model in your location is not a handicap.
01-16-2008, 10:55 PM
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Both of your EMS choices will work on the 4-port motor.
Really, you need to decide what your power and drivability goals are - realistically.
What are the emissions and tax laws in your country? If you have inspection programs and such, that might be a consideration.
Really, it comes down to your realistic power goals and how much "peripheral" equipment you are willing to get.
There are certain minimums - proper instrumentation, including a WBO2S and a boost controller - but there are other upgrades that can make the project quickly spiral out of control if they are not part of your plan.
In short - your particular model in your location is not a handicap.
Really, you need to decide what your power and drivability goals are - realistically.
What are the emissions and tax laws in your country? If you have inspection programs and such, that might be a consideration.
Really, it comes down to your realistic power goals and how much "peripheral" equipment you are willing to get.
There are certain minimums - proper instrumentation, including a WBO2S and a boost controller - but there are other upgrades that can make the project quickly spiral out of control if they are not part of your plan.
In short - your particular model in your location is not a handicap.
Well, I don't want to push my engine into heavy pressure but 8 psi would be reasonable. I will be happy with 270whp arounds and less turbo lags.
I have already a AFR guage installed in my NA car which is from Innovate. Also the boost control by the eletronical device is easy for me. I have a good one ready to install.
I've decide to use a Synchronic BOV since I've watched the mysql101's Youtube video.
I've purchased a TurboXS's Knocklite yesterday from eBay to monitor the detonation and I hope it works well.
I have to pay tax about 20% of the import price. The emissions law won't be a problem for the imported motors.
There are so many Hyundai Tiburons usually boosted up to 20psi in my country. All of them do not use any piggyback system but the reflashed original ECU.
The 4-ports motors has 4 injectors although 6MT has 6. I doubt any EMS can add enough fuel into my boosted motor with 4 injectors.
Should I change my injectors?
Last edited by Stephen_in_Seoul; 01-16-2008 at 11:14 PM.
01-17-2008, 12:56 AM
#10
The knock sensor won't help you. The Renesis' knock profile is virtually undetectable.
You will hear it way before the sensor does and by then it may be too late.
The two primary injectors on your car flow about 380cc. The two secondaries flow about 480cc. In total, that is good for about 300 HP at the crank.
You might consider replacing the secondaries with 730cc injectors. That will get you to 400 HP at the crank (a little less).
Though, realistically, 270 HP at the wheels on the 4-port is pretty good.
You will hear it way before the sensor does and by then it may be too late.
The two primary injectors on your car flow about 380cc. The two secondaries flow about 480cc. In total, that is good for about 300 HP at the crank.
You might consider replacing the secondaries with 730cc injectors. That will get you to 400 HP at the crank (a little less).
Though, realistically, 270 HP at the wheels on the 4-port is pretty good.
01-17-2008, 01:13 AM
#11
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I'm curious why you chose to import one from Germany? Wouldn't getting one from Japan be easier?
As to your original question - either can work very well, but it comes down more to what the person who tunes your car has experience with. EMU is a piggyback and is MAF based. The IntX is a standalone (actually based off the Microtech) and is MAP based. Either can be tuned very well or very poorly. I would suggest finding a rotary tuner that you trust to work on your car, and then going with whatever that person would be more comfortable working with.
As to your original question - either can work very well, but it comes down more to what the person who tunes your car has experience with. EMU is a piggyback and is MAF based. The IntX is a standalone (actually based off the Microtech) and is MAP based. Either can be tuned very well or very poorly. I would suggest finding a rotary tuner that you trust to work on your car, and then going with whatever that person would be more comfortable working with.
01-17-2008, 01:51 AM
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The knock sensor won't help you. The Renesis' knock profile is virtually undetectable.
You will hear it way before the sensor does and by then it may be too late.
The two primary injectors on your car flow about 380cc. The two secondaries flow about 480cc. In total, that is good for about 300 HP at the crank.
You might consider replacing the secondaries with 730cc injectors. That will get you to 400 HP at the crank (a little less).
Though, realistically, 270 HP at the wheels on the 4-port is pretty good.
You will hear it way before the sensor does and by then it may be too late.
The two primary injectors on your car flow about 380cc. The two secondaries flow about 480cc. In total, that is good for about 300 HP at the crank.
You might consider replacing the secondaries with 730cc injectors. That will get you to 400 HP at the crank (a little less).
Though, realistically, 270 HP at the wheels on the 4-port is pretty good.
I think I wasted the money to buy a Knocklite which is useless for my 8. I should believe my ears.
The good news is that my stock injectors are enough to handle 8 PSI boost.
MM, Have you had any experience to turbo 4-ports motors? If so, how about the wiring harness? The Int-X and the EMU, both has 5 connectors to the original EMS as I know but my EMS has 4 connectors behind.
01-17-2008, 02:15 AM
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I'm curious why you chose to import one from Germany? Wouldn't getting one from Japan be easier?
As to your original question - either can work very well, but it comes down more to what the person who tunes your car has experience with. EMU is a piggyback and is MAF based. The IntX is a standalone (actually based off the Microtech) and is MAP based. Either can be tuned very well or very poorly. I would suggest finding a rotary tuner that you trust to work on your car, and then going with whatever that person would be more comfortable working with.
As to your original question - either can work very well, but it comes down more to what the person who tunes your car has experience with. EMU is a piggyback and is MAF based. The IntX is a standalone (actually based off the Microtech) and is MAP based. Either can be tuned very well or very poorly. I would suggest finding a rotary tuner that you trust to work on your car, and then going with whatever that person would be more comfortable working with.
Japan is very close to my country and the car price is much cheaper than Germany.
But in Japan, people drive a car wrong side of the road.
I mean their cars have the steering wheel at the passenger side.I've asked to my friend in Germany to buy a one year used RX-8 and spent nearly 50,000 USD to get a 5MT RX-8 including the shipping charges, taxes and the other charges.
Now I clearly understand the differences between EMU and Int-X.
I think the FI motor should be tuned under MAP(boost). That's why Int-X give more power than EMU I realize. Then there is a MAP sensor inside Int-X to read the boost if I'm not wrong.
No Mazda is in my country ever since. That means no Mazda parts and no rotary tuner we have in. That's why I'm looking for a good EMS with a good pretuned map.
Last edited by Stephen_in_Seoul; 01-17-2008 at 02:19 AM.
01-17-2008, 02:36 AM
#14
The EMU is MAP based. It can also manage the MAF. The OE PCM is MAF based.
So, that makes the EMU a hybrid.
Yes. There is a turbo 4-port right here in Phoenix.
You can just ignore the 5th (center, actually the #3) connector, but if the particular harness that you have for the E-Manage has the sub-injectors wired to the 5th connector (the P2 injectors), you need to move those wires to the secondaries on the #2 connector. Later versions of the E-Manage MA-10/11 harness have the sub injectors wired to the secondaries already.
I believe that MazSport sells a 4-port specific Interceptor-X.
So, that makes the EMU a hybrid.
You can just ignore the 5th (center, actually the #3) connector, but if the particular harness that you have for the E-Manage has the sub-injectors wired to the 5th connector (the P2 injectors), you need to move those wires to the secondaries on the #2 connector. Later versions of the E-Manage MA-10/11 harness have the sub injectors wired to the secondaries already.
I believe that MazSport sells a 4-port specific Interceptor-X.
01-17-2008, 07:55 AM
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I'd like to let you know the reason why I indivisually imported a RX-8 from Germany not from Japan.
Japan is very close to my country and the car price is much cheaper than Germany.
But in Japan, people drive a car wrong side of the road. I mean their cars have the steering wheel at the passenger side.
I've asked to my friend in Germany to buy a one year used RX-8 and spent nearly 50,000 USD to get a 5MT RX-8 including the shipping charges, taxes and the other charges.
Japan is very close to my country and the car price is much cheaper than Germany.
But in Japan, people drive a car wrong side of the road.
I mean their cars have the steering wheel at the passenger side.I've asked to my friend in Germany to buy a one year used RX-8 and spent nearly 50,000 USD to get a 5MT RX-8 including the shipping charges, taxes and the other charges.
That's harsh though, $50k...Really, though, you should be getting your engine tuned... You may want to consider flying a rotary tuner in from Japan since it's fairly close.. You might even have luck asking about it on this forum..
Point taken.
01-17-2008, 10:46 AM
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Right, but the OP was asking which would be better to install pre-tuned... With the IntX the tune sets the absolute quantity of fuel, so the tune will be the same across all cars. If you take a pre-tuned EMU however, the absolute quantity of fuel will be different for every car you install it in based on the LTFTs. Hence if you really want something pre-tuned, the IntX would be a better choice. That is regardless of the fact that you really should get your car tuned whichever management you get...
01-17-2008, 12:25 PM
#19
I'll snap his neck.
50K? That is a dedicated RX-8 owner! Welcome to the obsession!
MM - that 4-port turbo in phoenix is 09factor's, correct? Don't use his as an example - his car is crap!
(just kidding - he and I play xbox live together sometimes, and he loves to rub it in that he has FI and I don't - so i gotta get a dig in on him every once in awhile)
To add something hopefully useful to the discussion, I do know that Mazsport will build you a map specific to your application that a lot of people seem to have good luck with right out of the box. And Scott (Mazsport) is known to have exceptional customer service. You will get a CEL (check engine light, just in case you don't know the english acryonms), but if you get a scan tool like the scangauge or something similar, you will be able to check it frequently to make sure that it is just the code that the Interceptor trips, which I believe is "Mixture too rich", because the OEM ECU is seeing more fuel than it expects when the car is under boost. You can set up the EMU to run without a CEL, but from a newbie perspective like mine, it seems like the EMU is more difficult to set up initially.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wrong more often than I'm right, in general
MM - that 4-port turbo in phoenix is 09factor's, correct? Don't use his as an example - his car is crap!
(just kidding - he and I play xbox live together sometimes, and he loves to rub it in that he has FI and I don't - so i gotta get a dig in on him every once in awhile)
To add something hopefully useful to the discussion, I do know that Mazsport will build you a map specific to your application that a lot of people seem to have good luck with right out of the box. And Scott (Mazsport) is known to have exceptional customer service. You will get a CEL (check engine light, just in case you don't know the english acryonms), but if you get a scan tool like the scangauge or something similar, you will be able to check it frequently to make sure that it is just the code that the Interceptor trips, which I believe is "Mixture too rich", because the OEM ECU is seeing more fuel than it expects when the car is under boost. You can set up the EMU to run without a CEL, but from a newbie perspective like mine, it seems like the EMU is more difficult to set up initially.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wrong more often than I'm right, in general
01-17-2008, 12:26 PM
#20
I'll snap his neck.
Just to add one more point - make sure Scott knows what your climate is like when he is putting your basemap on there. Seems like that can affect the performance of the interceptor. He should be able to give you a conservative base map that will work in a broad variety of climates.
01-17-2008, 04:06 PM
#22
I'll snap his neck.
01-30-2008, 06:10 PM
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At this time, I wonder how EMU read the boost in the GReddy kit?
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