Originally Posted by two rotors
(Post 1978767)
Actually this is what I said:
The coil failure rate is probably in the 20% range or higher here. That said, I went through two sets back in Maryland. The dealer there couldn't keep them on the parts shelf (that was before the revision and TSBs). |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1978015)
The current stance at Mazda is to replace the coils an any vehicle with a rough idle or loss of power that passes the recall and has had the motor mount TSB.
My local dealer replaces the coils almost as a matter of fact. Coil replacements are VERY common.
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1978015)
Resistance to the ground path in the OEM configuration is 3 to 6 ohms. Grounding kits reduce that to a fraction of an ohm.
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Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1979430)
So are you saying that if I want to operate my power windows, or my headlights, or seat warmers, or heater blower, or my rear window defroster, or something that say wants 15 amps at 12 volts I will need from 57 to 84 volts to drive it?
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Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1979430)
So are you saying that if I want to operate my power windows, or my headlights, or seat warmers, or heater blower, or my rear window defroster, or something that say wants 15 amps at 12 volts I will need from 57 to 84 volts to drive it?
Try tweaking the "I" side of the equation, not the "E". The voltage through the circuit remains the same, the current goes up. |
dude your avatars are the shit! And you really seem to know your stuff man.
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Just as an example, BTW, before you start spinning around and spitting.
If you have a power window circuit that consumes 15A (which is a LOT, but that was your example) and the resistance across ground is 3 ohms, you will see an additional 3.8A through the electrical path above the load demand. |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1978791)
And, so? You mean relocate the car and the driver? I'm not sure what you are getting at.
The coil failure rate is probably in the 20% range or higher here. That said, I went through two sets back in Maryland. The dealer there couldn't keep them on the parts shelf (that was before the revision and TSBs). However now that you mention it maybe you could try Alaska I checked other cars for coil failures and the only significant number was 25 coils for 2003-2004 Mazda 6. Just as a matter of interest I checked our RX8 data for other failures and it can be summarised as follows: No of cars:152 Engines replaced:1 HO 1 standard Transmissions replaced:2 six speed man,1 4spd auto Coils:4 on 1 car. Clutches:3(plus 2 with the 6-speed gearboxes) Catalytic converters:10 Sun visors:5 sets Rear Lamps:12 sets Heater control units:3 MOP:1 These are real data(I ordered most of the parts) and in some cases may be at variance with your experience.But it is what it is. |
You are also in Ontario.
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It's been about a week now that I've been waiting for someone to comment on the nonsense that's been spoken here. But comments such as this
Originally Posted by rotorocks
(Post 1979443)
I think he talks specifically about the resistance on the coils. No?
and this:
Originally Posted by cjwaggs
(Post 1979799)
dude your avatars are the shit! And you really seem to know your stuff man.
But first I would like to address this comment:
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1980108)
You are also in Ontario.
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Specifically which parts do you have a problem with?
I am in CANADA...and my coils have been replaced three times...the first time all 4, then just the leading( one quit completely) and I just replaced them myself again. Thats all in 90K km's...... |
This forum is a lesson on how to ask a question and then endear yourself to the people answering your question.
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Originally Posted by Phil's 8
(Post 1989809)
This forum is a lesson on how to ask a question and then endear yourself to the people answering your question.
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1989949)
Originally Posted by Phil's 8
Originally Posted by Phil's 8
This forum is a lesson on how to ask a question and then endear yourself to the people answering your question. I've learned fairly early on to give people just enough ammunition to shoot themselves in the foot and then get out. including yourself ... |
Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1989451)
It's been about a week now that I've been waiting for someone to comment on the nonsense that's been spoken here. But comments such as this
Really do mean that there is some confusion. There are two topics - the grounding kits and the coil failures. I was speaking about the grounding kits. MM is arguing the point that grounding kit reduces the resistance. Does it not?
Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1989451)
and this:
When complete rubbish can be viewed as 'knowing your stuff', there really is a serious lack of understanding. There is nothing wrong with this except that it might be phrased as "I don't really understand this so am not in a position to comment..."
Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1989451)
"I don't really understand this so am not in a position to comment..."
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Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 1989485)
Specifically which parts do you have a problem with?
I am in CANADA...and my coils have been replaced three times...the first time all 4, then just the leading( one quit completely) and I just replaced them myself again. Thats all in 90K km's...... What shape were your wires in?The reason I ask is that we have changed about 6 sets of wires. What did you use for replacements?The part no. currently used in the US is not available in Canada,although the part we get is actually the same part--it just costs about 4 times more. |
Originally Posted by Phil's 8
(Post 1989809)
This forum is a lesson on how to ask a question and then endear yourself to the people answering your question.
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 1990081)
including yourself ...
Don't you have a parking lot you need to drive around?:lol: |
Originally Posted by dannobre
(Post 1989485)
Specifically which parts do you have a problem with?
I am in CANADA...and my coils have been replaced three times...the first time all 4, then just the leading( one quit completely) and I just replaced them myself again. Thats all in 90K km's...... |
To a request for evidence that grounding kits work:
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1978015)
Resistance to the ground path in the OEM configuration is 3 to 6 ohms. Grounding kits reduce that to a fraction of an ohm.
Originally Posted by Delmeister
(Post 1979430)
So are you saying that if I want to operate my power windows, or my headlights, or seat warmers, or heater blower, or my rear window defroster, or something that say wants 15 amps at 12 volts I will need from 57 to 84 volts to drive it?
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1979785)
You have a little difficulty with Ohm's Law there, I see.
Try tweaking the "I" side of the equation, not the "E". The voltage through the circuit remains the same, the current goes up. A: The circuit now includes the 3 ohm resistance which must also pass the 15 amp current. In order that 12 volts be dropped across said device, the battery voltage would have to be: V = 12 + 15*3 = 12 + 45 = 57 volts If that resistance were 6 ohms, then the voltage would have to be 102 volts. Since the battery voltage is what it is, the question could be phrased differently. Q: Given the above situation with the faulty ground, what voltage would be developed across said device? A: The effective resistance of the device is V/I = 12/15 = 0.8 ohms. With a 3 ohm resistor in series with the device, the voltage drop across the device becomes: V=12*(0.8/(3+0.8)) = 12*0.211 = 2.53. The current would be 12/3.8 = 3.16 amps For a 6 ohm resistor, the voltage across said device would be 1.41 volts, the current 1.76 amps. The car would probably not run with resistances this high provided you could even get it started. On a very cold winter morning where I live, the starter probably draws more than a couple hundred amps while the battery voltage probably drops to the vicinity of 8 volts. Figure out how much starting voltage would actually be needed if the resistance between the engine block and the battery negative were even as low as 0.1 ohm. |
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
(Post 1979813)
Just as an example, BTW, before you start spinning around and spitting.
If you have a power window circuit that consumes 15A (which is a LOT, but that was your example) and the resistance across ground is 3 ohms, you will see an additional 3.8A through the electrical path above the load demand. About the window. Some time ago I did a test because I was curious to know what happened when the power window button was held down after the window had reached the end of its travel. I rigged a 20 amp full scale analog ammeter in series with the window wiring. Here is what happened. On pushing the button, there was a large instantaneous pulse of current (expected). The current attained a steady state of something less than 10 amps (can’t remember exactly) during window movement. When the window reached the end of its travel, the current suddenly shot up to the upper part of the scale (in the area of 15 amps, again cannot remember exactly). I kept holding the button down for an additional 8-10 seconds. The current kept flowing. I had expected a current cutoff before then. For what its worth, I can tell you the sunroof does not operate that way. The current cuts off as soon as it reaches the end of its travel. I cannot remember how much current it drew, nor did I test to see what would happen if I tried to impede its movement. |
This is a fun read!
You guys are way beyond me when it comes to E&M (I was never too gifted at physics), but from my toying around with car audio 3 to 6 ohms sounds like a lot of resistance. Maybe this was already posted, but what are the exact symptoms of coil pack failure? Ever since my track day when the car ran super hot and spilled collant all over my K&N and my car started running so clean I can almost eat off the inside of the exhaust tips, I'm pretty much paranoid about anything being broken. |
3ohms is not that much resistance, think about it an LED tends to like a 1k ohm resister before it. Now when talking about capacitance ferrets(sp?); 3 ferrets(sp?) is a decent amount and could kill you if discharged into your body.
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Farad?
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^^ Its actually farad... now that we got that cleared, back to the topic. I'm loving this thread (heck, this makes the workday go by).
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i like the idea of killer ferrets though, then things could get really interesting!
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