How much Nitrous, is SAFE Nitrous?
04-03-2012, 06:21 AM
#27
VERY GOOD IDEA!!!
If done right should be able to support higher than 75hp shots. My mechanic and I will do some research and see what we can come up with or what his inclusions are. But that sounds like a good idea indeed. It would be much cheaper than getting a piggyback.
My only concern would be with going with a wet N2O delivery system would the ECUs fuel compensation be too much given there is fuel being delivered with the N20? Time to bust out the paper. Gonna be a few days before I see my mechanic again.
If done right should be able to support higher than 75hp shots. My mechanic and I will do some research and see what we can come up with or what his inclusions are. But that sounds like a good idea indeed. It would be much cheaper than getting a piggyback.
My only concern would be with going with a wet N2O delivery system would the ECUs fuel compensation be too much given there is fuel being delivered with the N20? Time to bust out the paper. Gonna be a few days before I see my mechanic again.
04-03-2012, 12:53 PM
#28
I'mma firin' mah lazor!!!
Well, worst case scenario the A/F mixture will be too rich with a wet shot. So then you find out what a safe dry shot size is and hopefully make similar power to what the wet shot was/should be making (if it was in fact too rich) off of a smaller dry shot. Also less chance of a backfire with a dry shot, IMO.
Either way, this is getting good. I can't wait to see who the guinea pig is going to be.
Either way, this is getting good. I can't wait to see who the guinea pig is going to be.
Last edited by Stray; 04-03-2012 at 12:56 PM.
04-03-2012, 01:41 PM
#30
Well, worst case scenario the A/F mixture will be too rich with a wet shot. So then you find out what a safe dry shot size is and hopefully make similar power to what the wet shot was/should be making (if it was in fact too rich) off of a smaller dry shot. Also less chance of a backfire with a dry shot, IMO.
Either way, this is getting good. I can't wait to see who the guinea pig is going to be.
Either way, this is getting good. I can't wait to see who the guinea pig is going to be.
Ummm a correctly tune engine should not be running rich using a Wet Shot if the correct jetting is used.
04-03-2012, 02:11 PM
#31
I'mma firin' mah lazor!!!
I misunderstood, thinking that the ECU would over-fuel/run rich when this was done. Meaning a wet shot wouldn't be optimal, and you could run a dry shot instead using the over fueling sort of as a safety net. I'm old fashioned and used to carbs so that made sense to me at the time. Basically, disregard my post haha.
04-03-2012, 09:15 PM
#32
With the idea being that around 75 you almost have to use a wet shot, may as well build the system from scratch as wet.
The definite in our plan is:
Wet Shot
55hp shot
Dual Purge Kit (Lets be serious, this just frikkin looks cool. I mean it will be helpful if I decide to use N2O in AutoX... but day to day... it's just a cool thing to see)
We will end up testing a few theories, in anticipation of a blown UIM, but we'll be trying our damned hardest to stay away from being careless. If it comes down to a piggyback as our only choice along with a ported manifold to get a safe 75+ shot... it is what it is.
The definite in our plan is:
Wet Shot
55hp shot
Dual Purge Kit (Lets be serious, this just frikkin looks cool. I mean it will be helpful if I decide to use N2O in AutoX... but day to day... it's just a cool thing to see)
We will end up testing a few theories, in anticipation of a blown UIM, but we'll be trying our damned hardest to stay away from being careless. If it comes down to a piggyback as our only choice along with a ported manifold to get a safe 75+ shot... it is what it is.
04-04-2012, 06:36 AM
#33
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dual purge out of the center of the fender vents like a boss. its a pita but get a coil of brake line and take your time
04-04-2012, 07:02 AM
#34
This one is out the side vents. But mine will be out the side vents pointing up... WOOT!
http://youtu.be/Q9uUXoLQqFM
http://youtu.be/Q9uUXoLQqFM
04-04-2012, 07:09 AM
#35
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cool keep us posted. idk how the hell the guy that posted that vid managed to spend $2500 on the kit tho
04-04-2012, 09:31 AM
#37
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$2500? did he fly you out and pay for hookers?
04-04-2012, 09:49 AM
#38
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So is it me or is the onlyl reason why peopel are loosing UIMs is becasue the fuel is pooling up inside the manifold. To me, this means two things. One, not all of the fuel is getting to the motor when the nitrous is sprayed. Two: Need to tap the LIM closer to the actual rotors so this problem no longer occurs. Maybe even a duel nozzle setup. One per rotor as close as one can get. No pooling of fuel and no Boom of the UIM.
04-04-2012, 10:11 AM
#39
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i think it has to do with people spraying too early in the rpm range. ask easy
04-04-2012, 10:18 AM
#40
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Even while spraying early, if the nozzles are properly placed, it shoudl not be an issue and you could spray alot lower in the RPM band. Its never good for fuel and nitrous to have to travel three - full feet through duct designed to flow air - before going into the motor. There is a reason the injectors are straight into the chamber and not a carb setup anymore.
04-04-2012, 10:26 AM
#41
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thought it had something to do with avp or ssv opening?
04-04-2012, 10:26 AM
#42
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If i remember correctly (and its been awhile since i have talked about nitrous on the eight) there was a theory about more nitrous going to the rear rotor due to the intake design or something of that sorts. A duel nozzle setup inot the LIM would eliminate that issue as well. Same nitrous amount to each rotor. No puddleing.
04-04-2012, 04:58 PM
#44
I am loving where this thread is going. I was hoping to get knowledgeable back into this thread, and its pretty awesome. Seems like everyone goes turbo, I like to not go with the crowd all the time. Which got me to thinking Nitrous and trying to break that 75shot limit people seem to hit.
So Thank You guys for being awesome... Now back to Nitrous talk.
I was thinking direct injection nitrous. One nozzle per rotor due to the pooling issue and the rear rotor issue. Glad I wasn't far off. It's an expensive idea, but probably cheaper than a turbo setup when labor is included. God I need to get on the track so I can get a sponsor for some of this stuff. Any how... my biggest worry is the timing tune so getting up to 75hp shots is easy.
Think pooling is more of an issue with the 75-100 shots than with the 55 shot... or is the pooling a universal issue irregardless of shot size?
Edit: @ Charles R Hill: Bravo on that one there. I am hoping to angle the outlet up a bit more. We'll see how much blood I'll have to shed to get it to work. Am I just blind or is the BHR Dual Purge kit no longer available? I looked earlier and didn't see it, given how few go nitrous I can see why it wouldn't be.
So Thank You guys for being awesome... Now back to Nitrous talk.
I was thinking direct injection nitrous. One nozzle per rotor due to the pooling issue and the rear rotor issue. Glad I wasn't far off. It's an expensive idea, but probably cheaper than a turbo setup when labor is included. God I need to get on the track so I can get a sponsor for some of this stuff. Any how... my biggest worry is the timing tune so getting up to 75hp shots is easy.
Think pooling is more of an issue with the 75-100 shots than with the 55 shot... or is the pooling a universal issue irregardless of shot size?
Edit: @ Charles R Hill: Bravo on that one there. I am hoping to angle the outlet up a bit more. We'll see how much blood I'll have to shed to get it to work. Am I just blind or is the BHR Dual Purge kit no longer available? I looked earlier and didn't see it, given how few go nitrous I can see why it wouldn't be.
Last edited by Lancifer; 04-04-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: shout to CRH
04-05-2012, 11:35 AM
#48
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Pardon my ignorance, but why would it bieng in closed loop cause it to backfire up through the intake? Woudlnt it jsut cause detination/issues inside the motor.
04-05-2012, 01:39 PM
#49
"Pooling" is a term sometimes used to refer to the wall-wetting effect. Some percentage of the fuel injected comes out of suspension and adheres to the intake wall. This quantity of fuel can be called the pool, though it is really a thin film. The amount of time that it takes for this fuel to evaporate back into the air stream is referred to as tau.
Tau changes due to many factors, importantly sudden throttle transients.
The stock ecu models this effect, and failure to account for it will cause lean and rich surges as tau changes. When fuel is introduced further from the intake port, as with a wet shot, the quantity of fuel in the "pool" will become larger.
Under steady state conditions, like constant wide open throttle, this effect is fairly negligible.
Sudden changes to airflow will raise these issues, and there are some very expensive tau modelling software packages to address them.
Tau changes due to many factors, importantly sudden throttle transients.
The stock ecu models this effect, and failure to account for it will cause lean and rich surges as tau changes. When fuel is introduced further from the intake port, as with a wet shot, the quantity of fuel in the "pool" will become larger.
Under steady state conditions, like constant wide open throttle, this effect is fairly negligible.
Sudden changes to airflow will raise these issues, and there are some very expensive tau modelling software packages to address them.
04-05-2012, 01:47 PM
#50
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"Pooling" is a term sometimes used to refer to the wall-wetting effect. Some percentage of the fuel injected comes out of suspension and adheres to the intake wall. This quantity of fuel can be called the pool, though it is really a thin film. The amount of time that it takes for this fuel to evaporate back into the air stream is referred to as tau.
Tau changes due to many factors, importantly sudden throttle transients.
The stock ecu models this effect, and failure to account for it will cause lean and rich surges as tau changes. When fuel is introduced further from the intake port, as with a wet shot, the quantity of fuel in the "pool" will become larger.
Under steady state conditions, like constant wide open throttle, this effect is fairly negligible.
Sudden changes to airflow will raise these issues, and there are some very expensive tau modelling software packages to address them.
Tau changes due to many factors, importantly sudden throttle transients.
The stock ecu models this effect, and failure to account for it will cause lean and rich surges as tau changes. When fuel is introduced further from the intake port, as with a wet shot, the quantity of fuel in the "pool" will become larger.
Under steady state conditions, like constant wide open throttle, this effect is fairly negligible.
Sudden changes to airflow will raise these issues, and there are some very expensive tau modelling software packages to address them.
Possibly a direct port, shot of nitrous may be safer?