GI for FI: Turbo selection and/or build assistance
05-20-2008, 09:11 PM
#1
goal = perfect rx8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: virginia
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GI for FI: Turbo selection and/or build assistance
Hey guys, I am starting to do some serious research into going FI, but haven't been able to come to an educated decision concerning the different turbo kits available. I am also seriously considering a custom build (by myself with forum/book/mechanic assistance). Before I do any discussion, I will state my goals for the upgrade:
1) Power - very simple goal: 300rwhp
2) Powerband - not as simple: I want a smooth buildup of power, essentially like stock but with a lot more oomph, all the way to 9000rpm. In other words, I don't want to be driving and suddenly loose control of the vehicle because my boost hits in the middle of a maneuver. I want the boost to hit quickly (super fast spool-up time) and to develop a relatively flat torque curve for 4000-4500rpm onwards. I intend to tune it myself (regardless of whether I buy a kit or build a custom system) with the Int-X. I know this category is picky, but it's one of my most important goals.
3) Reliability - pretty standard: after finishing the installation and nailing down the powerband where I want it, I don't want to have anything blow up on me. This basically means I want to keep boost low, but still high enough for 300rwhp. I also want to maintain the lowest engine temperatures possible to prolong component life and improve performance.
4) Appearance - simple aesthetics: I would like the turbo to be visible when I open the hood and to be able to hear a beautiful BOV sound while driving. From staticlag's review of the Esmeril Kit (great thread), he mentioned that an external wastegate also sounds very aggressive and enjoyable.
Applications of vehicle: my car is currently a daily driver, but that will change within the next year and it will become a weekend/project car. At that point, it will be used for joyrides, occasional autocross, and very occasional tracking. Essentially, the car will not be pushed to the limit on a regular basis, but it will happen occasionally.
So...what are your opinions? Are the available kits suitable for my goals? I've read many, many discussions of the various kits, but very few of them go into the complete detail that I'm curious about. Should I look into a buying kit components and modifying them? Or go all the way and build a kit from the ground up?
On a more specific note, do you believe that a fuel upgrade is necessary (from my readings, I think it will be)? How about an ignition upgrade (like the upcoming Esmeril model)?
Time is not a serious object for this project; I would prefer to work on it for two years and have it be amazing than go FI in six months and be disappointed. Thanks in advance for your input.
1) Power - very simple goal: 300rwhp
2) Powerband - not as simple: I want a smooth buildup of power, essentially like stock but with a lot more oomph, all the way to 9000rpm. In other words, I don't want to be driving and suddenly loose control of the vehicle because my boost hits in the middle of a maneuver. I want the boost to hit quickly (super fast spool-up time) and to develop a relatively flat torque curve for 4000-4500rpm onwards. I intend to tune it myself (regardless of whether I buy a kit or build a custom system) with the Int-X. I know this category is picky, but it's one of my most important goals.
3) Reliability - pretty standard: after finishing the installation and nailing down the powerband where I want it, I don't want to have anything blow up on me. This basically means I want to keep boost low, but still high enough for 300rwhp. I also want to maintain the lowest engine temperatures possible to prolong component life and improve performance.
4) Appearance - simple aesthetics: I would like the turbo to be visible when I open the hood and to be able to hear a beautiful BOV sound while driving. From staticlag's review of the Esmeril Kit (great thread), he mentioned that an external wastegate also sounds very aggressive and enjoyable.
Applications of vehicle: my car is currently a daily driver, but that will change within the next year and it will become a weekend/project car. At that point, it will be used for joyrides, occasional autocross, and very occasional tracking. Essentially, the car will not be pushed to the limit on a regular basis, but it will happen occasionally.
So...what are your opinions? Are the available kits suitable for my goals? I've read many, many discussions of the various kits, but very few of them go into the complete detail that I'm curious about. Should I look into a buying kit components and modifying them? Or go all the way and build a kit from the ground up?
On a more specific note, do you believe that a fuel upgrade is necessary (from my readings, I think it will be)? How about an ignition upgrade (like the upcoming Esmeril model)?
Time is not a serious object for this project; I would prefer to work on it for two years and have it be amazing than go FI in six months and be disappointed. Thanks in advance for your input.
05-20-2008, 09:15 PM
#2
Drop it into 3rd
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Petit Supercharger sounds like your best option. Check out this thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628
The orange line is the petit supercharger, flatly increasing power all the way to 9,000, ending up just a hair above 300hp
Sounds perfect for you. No BOV sound, but as far as your performance requirements go it's spot on what you're looking for. An ignition upgrade is not necessary unless you plan on pushing your hp over 340 or so, at that point you get spark blowout, but nothing a mazsport ignition solution can't handle.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628
The orange line is the petit supercharger, flatly increasing power all the way to 9,000, ending up just a hair above 300hp
Sounds perfect for you. No BOV sound, but as far as your performance requirements go it's spot on what you're looking for. An ignition upgrade is not necessary unless you plan on pushing your hp over 340 or so, at that point you get spark blowout, but nothing a mazsport ignition solution can't handle.
05-22-2008, 05:55 AM
#3
goal = perfect rx8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: virginia
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good call! I hadn't thought about supercharging. There seems to be a lack of torque relative to the turbos of similar horsepower, though. Do you think it would translate into a significant difference in drivability? I definitely think, however, that the Pettit has a beautiful powerband. Thanks for pointing it out.
05-23-2008, 03:34 AM
#7
Londons Yellow Peril
on the sound side of things, with a Pettit kit, you wont get the BOV whoosh, but you would get supercharger whine....
whoosh or whine, eh, choices choices.... 8)
whoosh or whine, eh, choices choices.... 8)
05-23-2008, 03:38 AM
#8
The Pettit doesn't really "whine".
It kinda grumbles.
Its not like an Eaton.
I just noticed this part of the original post:
Good luck with that.
It kinda grumbles.
Its not like an Eaton.
I just noticed this part of the original post:
3) Reliability - pretty standard: after finishing the installation and nailing down the powerband where I want it, I don't want to have anything blow up on me. This basically means I want to keep boost low, but still high enough for 300rwhp. I also want to maintain the lowest engine temperatures possible to prolong component life and improve performance.
05-23-2008, 09:31 AM
#9
RotoRocks Powered
^ for number 3.
lol Challenging project! Basically you are asking for a solution that will double the engine output and reliability.
And #2, you sure a hell won't get there with Esmerils kit.
lol Challenging project! Basically you are asking for a solution that will double the engine output and reliability.
And #2, you sure a hell won't get there with Esmerils kit.
05-23-2008, 09:58 AM
#10
Mazsport.net
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the shop
Posts: 753
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-23-2008, 06:58 PM
#11
supercharger. if you turbo a car, you are going to get more lag than you seem to want (lag/response is all in your head, everybody has a different tolerance for it), unless it is some bullshit turbo that isn't worth the gazillions you spent on the whole setup.
05-23-2008, 07:29 PM
#12
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
the Pettit crew was talking about discontinuing the S/C so might not be the best option. (I could be mistaken, check the Pettit thread)
Mazsport 2 or Esmeril are your only options that fit MOST of your criterias. (#3 is a doozy)
Mazsport 2 or Esmeril are your only options that fit MOST of your criterias. (#3 is a doozy)
05-23-2008, 08:07 PM
#14
Drop it into 3rd
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good call! I hadn't thought about supercharging. There seems to be a lack of torque relative to the turbos of similar horsepower, though. Do you think it would translate into a significant difference in drivability? I definitely think, however, that the Pettit has a beautiful powerband. Thanks for pointing it out.
Wait...WHAT?
different strokes..
05-24-2008, 07:46 AM
#17
RotoRocks Powered
05-24-2008, 12:40 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lowell, Mass
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
u simply bought the wrong car, ive spoken to people with the mazsport, and greddy turbo kits and the car simply doesnt run as good as stock, and goin FI def. wont increase ur reliability status
05-24-2008, 06:17 PM
#22
RotoRocks Powered
05-24-2008, 09:41 PM
#23
goal = perfect rx8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: virginia
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the feedback. a few issues seem to have arisen, though. first, performance and powerband are my biggest priorities, and i would easily compromise aesthetics for a better-performing vehicle. second, i know that reliability will not improve and will always be an issue with such a significant modification, but i just don't want something that is notorious for engine trouble.
so...the mazsport type II turbo kit and pettit supercharger seem to be the current front runners. i'll search posts concerning both and continue researching. thanks again for your contributions.
so...the mazsport type II turbo kit and pettit supercharger seem to be the current front runners. i'll search posts concerning both and continue researching. thanks again for your contributions.
05-24-2008, 09:45 PM
#24
05-24-2008, 09:59 PM
#25
Drop it into 3rd
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haha, the Mazsport turbo and the Pettit blower are my front runners as well I'm torn completely just like you, I guess I'll keep watching this thread seeing as how nobody will reply to mine 
Yes, when I said that I was referring to the gap between the torque of the Pettit kit and the Mazsport turbo, which upon more careful math is actually 66lb-ft. I figured that was what the OP was asking about as well.
I'm torn completely just like you, I guess I'll keep watching this thread seeing as how nobody will reply to mine Yes, when I said that I was referring to the gap between the torque of the Pettit kit and the Mazsport turbo, which upon more careful math is actually 66lb-ft. I figured that was what the OP was asking about as well.
Last edited by Falken; 05-24-2008 at 10:02 PM.