Esmeril upgraded turbo by BNR Supercars
 

Here are some pics of this Esmeril turbo that was upgraded to a Garrett OE GT61. I replaced the everything but the turbine housing. That way everything with the kit would bolt up with ease. The CHRA (center housing rotating assembly) is water cooled for drastic improvements of reliability. The GT61 is a turbo capable of 500 RWHP, but many have made 450-475 on the pre-REW rotary engines.

Here are some pics...

How did you like that shaft play when I mailed it you...... :D

Hey that old CHRA counted 2 points in my recycle bin! :D

HAHA! Looks sick man; nice work.

PS - in case I forgot to tell you; can you keep that same oil drain line so Nester can bolt it up easily.

Sucks I'm not gonna be in Hawaii to tune it.

so this replaces a turbo that is too big with a smaller more reliable one ?

Customer's goals my son; customer's goals.....

Can't wait to get this thing in an show what it can do. Vidio coming soon to show off all the greatness that the esmirl kit is supost to have but dosent.

Bryan does make awfully pretty turbos. Good job. :)

This is going to be fun.... remote tuning on the Int-X FTL....

PS - My bad about misspelling your name bro.

I have Esmeril turbo on my car and you probably see my video somewhere already. I am curious about your mod to the turbo. You mentioned that the CHRA is water cooled. The stock turbo that comes with the kit doesn't and only cool by oil. Is this mean extra plumbing is required for this upgrade turbo? I assume that this is a straight bolt on to the existing set up. Correct?

Yes, you plumb the water lines from the throttle body to the new turbo.

Thanks Kane for the quick reply. So you T-off the water line from the throttle body? One go to the turbo and one go to the throttle body?

Now what different is this tubo compare to the stock one beside the water cool capability and the housings? Is the journal bearings replace by ball bearings? Mine is about 5000 miles now and still going strong. No play on the shaft.

As far as the orignal turbo I was olny able to make 300 at the wheels at 10 psi. Far short of what esmirl clames. I kind of curious to how other peoples kits compare. Has anyone else done dyno pulls. An as far as differnce this is a Garret turbo not that piece that's from china.

Water cooled Garrett turbo >>> Chinese eBay turbo.

Well, if you look at the dyno chart closely on that 366whp dyno pull, the car was running at 13 psi, not 10 psi. And the car was running on esmeril coil, not factory coil. Also there are variablility between engines. What is your set up?

Back to the turbo, so is this still a journal bearing turbo with new housing and water cool capability? Garret turbo is a well known brand and I am sure it is a good turbo. I am thinking of upgrading mine to Precision turbo that is now an option for this turbo kit. Right now mine is still going strong and it spools pretty quick. There is no play on the shaft after 5000 miles. What is the price for this upgrade? Send in your old turbo for rework?

Yes, you have to send your old turbo in for re-working. I am not sure if BNR is using the better 360 bearings on this one, I know he usually does.

AD had the BHR ignition and I tuned it on the dyno to close to 300 at 9 PSI; but after taking the turbo off I can tell you that thing was hosed... and no matter what I did it wouldn't make any power below 4500 RPMS.... so it is what it is.

I have tuned 2 cars with BNR upgrades one 8 and one Speed6; and both put up huge gains over the factory turbo (greddy and k04 respectively); in my experience (and I have proven this by sending a lot of business BNR's way) - I wouldn't use anyone else. As a matter of fact, the speed 6 is getting a new turbo from BNR in the future. I can tell you one thing, breaking traction in 3rd and 4th on an AWD 6 is quite an experience.

Thanks Kane for the info. My turbo is prettty good I think. I get boost around 3200 rpm if I floor it early. I will keep this in mind when it is time for me to replace/upgrade the turbo. This is my first turbo so I don't know what the life span of the turbo would be. What is the lead time and cost for this work on stock Esmeril turbo? I want to compare the price to a new precision T-70 turbo that I am thinking of getting later on.

I always install 360 thrust kits in turbos. I use 270s in stock rebuilds, but anything with higher performance they go in. ETA is 2-3 weeks on one of these upgrades. It takes all kinds of custom parts to make it happen, but I use all OE Garrett parts. I do use a Billet seal plate that isn't OE Garrett, but way nicer :D. I can set you up with something bigger or smaller. Whatever you want to do!

PTE has all their housings made copying garrett as much as they can. Why not just make your own turbo instead of copying someone elses product...

Bryan, can you PM me the cost of this work? Thanks.

Slightly off topic, but does Chris have any updates on Esmeril-AP use? A marriage of the kit, AP, and upgraded snail would be a wet dream.

Slightly off topic :lol:

Great job. Now all we need is a working Esmeril kit with a Cobb AP and we have the ulimate turbo kit for the rx8!

I think Chris was looking at trying to make AP work with this turbo kit but there is something about piping diameter and location of the MAF that makes it difficult to make it works well.

Microtech is fine for me so far. Just remember that one map will not let you drive around safely all year round. I have winter map right now and Chris will create a summer map for me this spring. After this all I have to do is switch the program over when it gets warm or cold. It is not a big deal. And I think you have can have more hp using microtech with this kit than with AP.

That's not that bad. It would just be a hell of a lot more convenient if Microtech had AP capabilities in terms of having multiple map settings, or even to have a separate storage device for multiple tunes comunicate with it.

Either way, this upgrade looks sick. I can't wait to see some dynos, and videos of it installed. Nice work, Bryan.

The AP is plainly superior to the microtech under every aspect. Our stock computer is WAY more intelligent than a cheap ecu. It's like comparing a motec m2r and a motec m880 PCM!

Very good point.

However the AP is not exactly perfect on a boosted renesis. Remember we are flashing a pcm made for a naturally aspirated engine. Not that I am unhappy with my AP and how it works so far with my turbo 8; but there is always room for improvement, right? ;)

*disclaimer*
I am not saying the microtech is better, but you probably knew that. :)

I agree with you, changing the induction of a car is always a problem.
We were discussing which sistem is "better", if we were talking about the "best" then... how much are we willing to spend to save an $4000\4500engine? :)
There are some very good computers out there but most of them are well beyond our budget and needs!

very true my friend

Gotta Love Motec.....

Everything except the price :(

The stock ecu cannot drive low impedence injectors. It cannot handle an auxilary input or output. It requires a proper maf sensor mount and flow for a response that can be calibrated. It requires functional O2 sensors to run in closed loop. As power level increases, it may require a new intake diameter to get a valid MAF response curve.

While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.

this

Don't even check the price for a Magneti Marelli Marvel series ecu then :)

I agree with you but i wouldn't trade the computation functions\ speed and capabilities of a stock pcm over THAT particular Ecu. There are other options that can work better than a stock PCM but they all need custom wiring harnesses to keep some stock features of our ecu working and plus they cost more than the whole turbo kit :)
A serious ecu would be a cool alternative but who is willing to spend other 6000 or so $ for just the PCM? The stock ecu, on the other hand, is there and you can have the precision of a way more expensive ecu for the price of an accessPORT or proTuner.
You described part of the trade-offs very well but are they really trade offs? MAF sensors can be scaled, intake pipes can be built... Having to change from a winter to a summer map is weird to say the least and means that the ecu really can't adjust too much while our stock one does :)

It really isn't that big of deal with the "low" powered boosted rx8's out there; the AP does an excellent job with them.

But if one were to build a turbo powered, E85 drinking renesis, I probably would ditch the AP and go all out :)


Anyways...Nice work on the turbo Bryan. :icon_tup::icon_tup:

That's what i would do as well, except for the e85 part since it is not available here. We only get good gas :p
All out means a serious ECU though, not the microtech :)
Anyway, back on the Esmeril married to the AP: i know that BHR makes custom modified AEM intakes as well to work with the greddy kit and an accessPORT. How hard would it be to mate that particular intake with the esmeril kit? There should be enough space to run a straight maf tube with the screens!
Here's the pic: http://usera.imagecave.com/boffam/Esmerilturbo.jpg

Microtech ecus have coolant and air temp adjustment maps.

Anyways - this is getting off topic. It's nice to see someone expanding the offerings available to Rx8 owners. I know I'll probably have to do a turbo rebuild or replacement at some point.

If I were going to run an AP on that system, I'd cut the intake if it wasn't 3.375"+ ID inside the front bumper and extend the MAF wiring harness. I could already give you a company that would make you the piece you'd need.

I prefer a system with the turbo close to the header for a multitude of reasons i'm not going to explain now so the tuning will be fairly easy in my case as i already know that i'll be able to use the stock MAF based system.
Anyway since every "Kit" is pretty much the same since you apparently have to source your ecu etc i think that the small bit we left behind as an OT is not going to be completely useless :)

Damnit, I mis-"read" the picture. The intake tubing is on ly 6" long. That setup would be tough to get a MAF in the suck through side.

Some redesign could be needed, moving the turbo a bit from such a position is not too hard though, same applies for the intake design.
Guess we'll wait and see :)

Not sure we need to go all the way up to the M880, I'm more a fan of the M600 for our cars :)

(Yes, I know you were just making a point, I'm kidding)

One day I *will* run an M600 on my 8... might not be for a long time, but I promise I'll do it :lol:

How about we get back on topic since the first one of these r installed now. Still haven't drove yet cause tunning "hint hint" is needed but jus at idle it was sending chills down my back. Install was a super easy for anyone who did there own turbo install befor An if u haven't u don't need a turbo this big anyways.

Congrats. You gonna post any pics, videos, or dynos?

I see you've been in many of the Esmeril threads, I'm doing my build right now at Enzo's shop in Bayshore. Your free to come around to look and see.

Cool. I just moved out to Bayport, so even better. :beer05:

do you have Chris's 500 hp manifold ?

So whats the difference between this upgrade and just buying and bolting on a Garrett turbo?

Is it me or is it just rediculous that half the " kits " available for these cars are based around ebay crap??? You would think this is a honda forum!

I will get Chris's gas entire kit. Manifold and all, there is nothing on this kit that is from ebay I can assure you. As far as his regular kit if your referring to the turbo and you would like a "name brand' then just tell him he has the ability to replace the normal turbo with one. The build quality of the Esmeril kit is very good things won't break on you like the greddy kit.

Its funny how everything on the greddy kit breaks but no one calls that kit a crappy kit because it has a name associated with it?

No - we just all already know the weak points of the Greddy.

This is why I just made my own :D:

:lach:
Everything on the greddy kit breaks?
That's an ignorant statement.

Also just about everyone calls the greddy kit crappy; yet they don't even own one or a turbo 8 for that matter. :rolleyes:

Waiting on a base tune from ppo2performance " thanks Kane " to upload so that I can run the car an tune it on the dyon with out blowing it up first. So all that will be comeing soon. Any sugestions on what u want me to vidio.