Esmeril Turbo vs Petit S/C
 

Hey everyone, I'm still fairly new here and just had a few general questions regarding turbo vs s/c.

I am considering to use FI on my car finally, but cannot decide whether I should buy the Esmeril Turbo Kit or the Petit Stage 2 CS Supercharger Kit. The Esmeril claims 415WPH running at 16psi, and the S/C kit claims 300WHP at 5-8psi.

I was just wondering:
Which kit would you recommend?
Which one is best for the dollar?
Which is most reliable / won't screw up my engine as fast?
Is it possible to make the SC put out more than 300WHP?

I am looking for a great impact on acceleration and speed in general (Especially on low end). As of now I am aiming towards the SC, but just wanted some imput.. . . . Thanks a lot everyone!

Have you done a search and looked into the two options. looked into problems other people have ran into and other related information. if not i suggest you use the search button and begain reading as most of have done.

Yeah I have. I know the SC will give me the low end power I want as well as a good amount of power through the entire power band, where as the turbo will lag and power band will be midrange. I had a turbo'd 200sx and liked it, especially the sound of it. SC sounds are kinda gay, but Im assuming they are better overall...just looking for some opinions

if you think the sound of SC is "kinda gay" then why is it even on your list?

your comment about lag and power band shows you have a lot more reading to go

That's a uneducated comment to a point. A improperly sized turbo will lag or run out of puff.
however then there are those that don't care about lag and power delivery across the rpm band. They just want to be dyno queens.

Its still on my list because of its reliability. And of course I have "more reading" to go. Thats why I posted this thread in the first place. Thought some people might actually have some suggestions / opinions on sc or turbo. Thats what I was aiming for.

We all do and they are out there, but in the end its your car you do what you want.

Oh and by lag I was meaning the time it takes initially to spool up. And by power band I meant how it delivers across only mid/higher rpm's...this is what I have read / know. Sorry if I'm not using correct terms, I just use what makes sense to me.

And yeah I know its up to me, but I wanted to know what everyone thinks of the two that own. Like what is the reliability of the sc....will there be a substantial notice of the power increase, etc...

I'm pretty new here and just started learning about rotarys not long ago..

If I was going to choose between the two I would go with the SC. Just my opinion. As others have mentioned do your research these comparisons have been covered on other threads.

Thanks for the opinion though, basically all I was looking for is advice on each. So yeah your opinion is appreciated!:Peace:

The power band of a turbo kit depends mostly on your turbine choice. The Esmeril kit apparently makes a lot of high end power but has got a sub optimal power curve because of the turbo sizes offered.
A supercharger is rpm-related so the power curve is what it is but it is inappropriate to state that a supercharger will make more low-end power than a turbo (of the proper size, ndr).

How much power do you need for cruising? what's your rpm range when driving spiritedly or at the track? Those are 2 things that you should consider, in my opinion.
With that said i would pick the pettit s\c if the only other choice is the esmeril kit because of the easy tuning solutions that apply to that kit (read AP\MazdaManiac) whether the esmeril kit is non-maf friendly and would need an interceptor or standalone ecu to work properly. The int-x is a piece of crap so...
I would consider a turbo kit with a properly sized turbo and well designed intake section over any s\c though considering the power band i need.

You should state your priorities like car use and power goals before limiting yourself to just 2 options :)

If you want low end power, you shouldn't be considering the SC. Just look at any dyno chart, including a greddy turbo kit at 9 psi. They make quite a bit more torque, and that includes the low end.

Also, don't look at "SC @ 9 psi" vs "TC @ 10 psi" type stuff. The PSI is meaningless. It's like saying my diesel car is at 2000 rpm in 6th gear, while your rotary car is 4000 rpm in 6th gear. Just because it's 6th gear doesn't mean the rpm is directly comparable. Is my 2000 rpm better or worse than your 4000 rpm? Will one cause more engine wear? None of that matters. Now, if it's my diesel vs your diesel, or a turbo kit vs another of the same, then you can compare.

Ok, so just a question then: It is, in terms, "safe" to put a smaller belt on the supercharger, therefore running it faster off the pulley system?
Initially my thought was the Greddy turbo, but then I saw a sc and became interested. Only thing is that, from what I know, a sc is more reliable than a tc.

As for my driving, I live in the city now, so do most of my driving in the city, usually cracking it every once in a while. I do highway driving to my farm as well. As for track, I only make it out so often so thats not a huge concern. Basically I want a good "kick" of power to boost my acceleration right up.

Thanks for everything guys!

A supercharger is not more reliable when compared to a turbo, it may be easier to install\set-up\tune\run for an inexperienced owner but that's not a true statement per se.
For your use the pettit supercharger seems like a good choice btw but keep in mind that even it it's not a truly bolt-on and that their base "tune" is just a starting point.
I also wouldn't mind thinking about smaller pulleys or other ways to increase the power since the increase offered by the kit as it is sold may be more than enough for you. Modifying it may become a headache like any further modification that leads to the need of many other support mods to keep it running properly.

SC has more moving parts, and has parasitic loss. Even the install time is similar, though you don't have to mess with the exhaust.

I think the biggest problem here are the typical misconceptions:

- Supercharges make more torque. False.
- Supercharges make more power down low. False.
- Superchargers are safer. False.
- Superchargers are easier to tune. False.

The only thing true, is that a supercharger is a lot more difficult to modify (adjust boost). And that can potentially save a noob from making random adjustments to the system. On the other hand, it's pretty damn easy to not increase boost in your boost controller. So it only saves you if you are a complete moron.

Well I'm not a moron on the topic by any means... I have only learned from experience as well as reading. The Greddy turbo kit is looking pretty good right about now. . . does anyone have a Greddy turbo kit installed?

This thread needs more cowbell....

Surely You jest ?


The Greddy kit is the most popular kit . I have the Greddy and can tell you that if you do your homework and do all the recommended upgrades that you can achieve an awesome result .
My particular setup is notable because it has produced the widest proven powerband of any private members kit on this site . :smoker: Little dig at Kane .... heh
I can also tell you it is an absolute joy to drive .

Getting to that stage is no simple 'bolt it on and fire it up' job however .

Im neither condoning nor negating either kit specifically listed, but based on everything I've seen to date a properly designed turbo setup is undoubtedly the best possible solution for a Renesis application.



.

Big part of the problem is that people cut corners or try to go FI on the cheap.

There is nothing worse than trying to go FI on a budget. Buying a used greddy kit for $1500 and slapping it on with an emanage = fail.

^^^ Please post this in the other thread that was started today with the newb trying to go FI on a very limited budget.

Agreed! Now if you want a nice setup go here;

http://www.turblown.net/store/

Money is of no concern

Is this a stable kit?

On paper its by far the best system, but you will have to ask around to some owners;

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/nrs-ceramic-apex-seals-1-piece-oem-height-200561/

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-specific-performance-mods-97/my-new-install-project-176409/

/\ Yeah it looks like a great setup . But like you say the proof is in the pudding and we aint seen any pudding yet ;)

09factors car is 16 months into the build and is still not finished ......

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...4248684?ref=ts

Looks like another in the works, I have seen more people around here with their setup, just can't find the links.

One big plus is its setup for an AP.

speaking of pudding dissapointments - sold your turbo yet ? :hahano:

Nah, just a bunch of lowballers and tirekickers. Epic, recordbreaking renesis horsepower...just collecting dust in my garage. :dunno:

What are the engine bay temps like with this kit? Doesn't having the airbox undertray removed decrease radiator performance?




Fungster I have the GReddy kit and I live like 2 hrs from you. I havent started the car yet as I am missing the IC outlet elbow from my kit (BHR is handling the matter epically) but everything is installed and I can tell you that if you have any experience working on a vehicle you should be able to handle the install no problem. Took me about 5 days to install everything.

I don't see why it shouldn't be stable. It's really the tune that makes or breaks the system.

Paper is nice, but in my case it looks better in my engine bay.

:bsflag:
Brett, The build of the Turbo system is finished and has been for close to 2 months now.
The issue why I don't drive it is with the drilled out siphon assembly recommended by a member of our FI'd 8 community. Shame on me for taking his premature advice. :wallbash:
Of course you knew this, so quit giving wrong information about my build.:nono:

Don't know that just yet about the engine bay temps. I have wrapped nothing yet. So I'll do time without wrap and time with DP, then up pipe, and finally the header.


The removal of the OEM airbox tray frees up quite a bit of air flow path restriction. So on my prior install Greddy kit it did help in bring the coolant temps back down quicker.

RotaryMachine - You live in Saskatoon, correct? We should meet up sometime, I would like to take a look at your setup.

I have never installed a turbo system before, and initially the Greddy was my selection, as long as I can get 300+rwhp out of it without going as high as 16psi.

^ You wont hit 300whp on the GReddy.... you'll need an upgrade for that and at the moment I'm still waiting for a proven upgrade to come back onto the market (MM's GT3071R) or something new to show up. I'm aiming to get up around 260 and then possibly around 280 with some more mods and a BC.

Once I finally get the car started I will still need to data log and wait for some tunes from MM, so I'm hoping it isnt parked for too much longer as I don't winter drive it and time is limited... and all this warm weather without the car is killing me haha

excuse me?

Don't take it offensively. It was just my way of saying I prefer the turbo sound over the sc sound. (From the ones I have heard).

Don't worry. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Since nobody has brought this up yet, I'm just going to add that turblowns kits, sfr, and the esmeril kit, which is the one I am actually in favor of, are all big pretty shiny top mount turbo kits. The greddy, on the other hand, is a smaller snail buried deep in the abyss of your engine. But thats the ONLY thing keeping me from considering the greddy.

Im looking for a show car, which involves a turbo people can actually see, but also something I could dd. I do know though that with the right knowledge, the greddy kit is more than capable. There is more than enough evidence of that on this site, it's up to the person tuning the kit.

If you are willing to put the time in to tune your turbo, go for it. If you just want power, a supercharger might be an easier alternative for you.

PS- now that the AP is gone, what ecu are people using these days?

No more than anyone who still says nigger, kike, wop, nip, chink, etc.

At a minimum you look like an insensitive/immature dumbass, worst case an ignorant bigot

knowing you did offend would have been the right moment to apolgize

reno- the cobb is still available

Apparently you can still purchase an AP for the RX-8 through mazdamaniac.com

Gay is a more than acceptable descriptive word in the english language, it's only relatively recently that it's been bastardised to refer to homosexuals, although obvisouly in that tense it could be deemed offensive.

Hey, I was just saying My own opinion. IF I was to say "Chink" then I'm meaning to diss a race obviously. I'm stating my own opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that.

If it offended to you enough degree to appreciate an apology, then sorry for dissing sc's sounds. Just not my thing.

Are you calling me dumb?

everyone has their own opinions on things, choose what you like best, just do the research. I personally like Twin screw petite S/C. free spining, its powerband is more linear, provides air to intake manifold oppose exhaust manifold. There are downsides too but for my purposes S/C would be good for me.

supercharged rotary sounds cool until you spend all that money and still get stomped by an STi with a downpipe

I have been expecting this thread to degrade into the flaming abyss between the Supercharger peeps and the Turbo peeps. Surprisingly it has not yet fallen.

What ever good you can say about either way to go FI has detractors. The OP has already stated that he does not like the sound of the S/C so why even bother considering it - he would never be happy.

I chose the s/c because of my past experiences with both forms of FI. Oh ya I do happen to like the sound also.

Was not meaning to misinform .
To me finished means you are tuned and running with no issues but I guess it is harsh to imply that has anything to do with the kit - sorry man .