Building the turbo manifold
 

I know you guys like pictures. :D
I had some time today, so I started with the manifold.
First, I welded a set of supports between the inlet flange (engine side) and the outlet flange (CAT side).
This keeps the two flanges in alignment even after I cut out all of the existing manifold.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx...%20Support.JPG

Then, I cut away the manifold parts that I don't need. The OEM manifold is stamped steel, rather than cast iron like most OEM manifolds.
It is also double-layer.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/Cutting.JPG

Then, I began welding small sections of pipe. I will build it up section by section just like this. I am stopping at this point until I have more time.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx...ond%20Pipe.JPG

Wow this is going to be a great way for me to learn more about Turbo plumbing. Maybe once you get it all together you can create a DIY forum post showing all the stages you went through along the way.

BTW, what kind of welder do you use, and how much would it cost to get my hands on one?

I use a Millermatic welder like this one:

http://www.grainger.com/images/products/1WG27.JPG

It is also outfitted with an argon/carbon dioxide tank for welding steel and a pure argon tank for aluminum.

I know I'm a geek, but I really derive a great deal of joy from welding.
Learning to do aluminum a few weeks ago really put me on cloud nine. :D

Is there a way you can trace the flange shape and port outlets onto a piece of posterboard and send it to me?

How heavy is the stock manifold? The reason I ask is I figured it was cast iron like most as you said. I was thinking that a new header would give some weight savings but it sounds like new headers won't do much in the way of weight.

.........only a hundreth of the way there now. :)

Envious , wish i was more mechanically wired . :cool:

cheers
michael

Absolutely. Send me your address (e-mail is better than PM) and I'll send you an Illustrator EPS along with the tracing.

Well, not quite. :rolleyes:

I'm in San Francisco for a few days. When I get home, I'll finish the manifold. That is the hard part. The IC plumbing is the next most difficult part, but I can keep the car on the road while I do that.

Sounds good. Keep us posted.
Godspeed...

You rock! Thanks. Check your e-mail.

I meant that you're only a fraction of the way to completing the turbo setup. :)

I understood that and I was refuting the statement.
Once the manifold is done, I will be nearly complete. Everything else is very simple.

what material are you using for the new pipe? for turbo manifolds it is std practice in australia to use steam pipe bends (seamless). they are thick walled and are suposed to last longer than exhaust pipe manifolds. you can get it in stainless or high carbon(?) steel.

I have a few pics but need to work out XP so I can up-load them :o

What you are describing are called "weld els". They are very heavy and difficult to cut. I am using 16ga aluminized and stainless steel mandrel bends.
I am welding them double walled just like the OEM manifold.
If it is good enough for Mazda, it is good enough for me.

DAMN I wish I had more money!

Anybody wanna send me a few thou so I can get a welder, and buy enough suplies to learn how to weld?

I just wanted you to be aware of std practice. I belive the reason performance shops choose weld els is that they are less likly to blow through as they don't want customers comming back every 3-6 months complaining about repairs.
I know your aware that the std manifold is only double walled for insulation and not strength.

weld els aren't hard to cut you can go through them with a hacksaw in under a minute.

I'm sure you have done the research and thumbs up for having a go.

Weld-els are super thick and very durable. It is really hard not to weld them good. Typically they are sold as schedule 40 carbon steel. It is possible but much more difficult to find thinner ones. Stainless is harder to weld and mild steel doesn't last as long. The most important reason why people use weld-els is because they are extremely cheap. A couple of bucks per. I built a turbo manifold for an RX-7 out of these. I spent $20 on the weld-els but $40 on the flanges. That is still very cheap for a manifold. There is a severe weight penalty though. They are very heavy. You can't cut through these with a hacksaw in under a minute. Maybe 30 if you're good.

I must be excelent then ;) the manifold I made was a 4cyl split pulse design lots of bends/cuts and each was done by hand. I even butchered lots by cutting on the wrong angle or where I changed the design. :D

I takes me about a full minute to cut through a weld el with an 11,000 RPM angle grinder with a carbon steel cut-off wheel.

I've gotta call BS on the under a minute with a hacksaw.

It takes me more than a minute to get through an 18ga piece of mild steel 3" tubing. :rolleyes:

The problem is the manifold is going to have a very complex shape for weld els.

The double wall design will function for strength and insulation.

I've got a pretty good handle on what I am doing. :p

Turbo Santa came early...
 

Look what Santa dropped in my garage this evening:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/assy_3.jpg

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/assy_4.jpg

Now I need to fabricate the insulating layer and the bracket for the WG actuator.
The insulation will be thin-gauge steel with a small section of header wrap to keep the heat away from the compressor and the passenger's feet. :rolleyes:.

I struggled for a few days with trying to make a sexy tubular manifold until I realized that I could get significantly more flow by going to a log with a bigger main tube. The main tube (though it is flattened which doesn't reduce flow, just the shape - the inside cross section still has the same area) is 3" compared to the factory 2.5". The collectors in my tubular design were 2".
The other struggle was getting the angle of the inlet flange (and thus the position of the turbo) right and get it tacked up while holding the whole thing in one hand and the welding gun in the other, all the while lying on my back under the car. Now I need a chiropractor. :mad:

BTW - the turbo is canted 25° from horizontal. Corky Bell says it is OK to go up to 30° and still have adequate oil drain flow.

Hopefully, I won't run out of CO2 before Monday. If so, I will switch over to the aluminum piping since I have a seperate argon tank for that.

HO! HO! HOLY COW! ... Looks like fun...

One more:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/assy_2.jpg

:cool: What would be the total expense of your unit when complete , not counting your labour .

Will you be giving us some DIY instructions :)

cheers
michael

Got the template made yet??? Yes I'm going to be a whiney little turd until I get one!!! Waaaaaaa!!!!!!! :D

do you have any pics of the manifold without the turbo on it?

yeah... that's two threads that I've found you posting for templates in.. :p this begs the questions... is this just curiousity or are you thinking about building something?? hmm... inquiring minds wanna know. :confused:

I may be doing a east coast road trip in a few weeks..can I stop by and check it out?

I'll buy the beer.

Absolutely.
PM me when you are coming around and I'll give you contact info.

do u live in jersey?

You're to young for the beer magix..

No soup for you!

Snap-on,

Make sure you take your mini spy camera and get all the specs on it!! :)

How about this attached PDF?

Why would he need to do that? I'm posting everything right here as I make it.

Practically in real time.

Maryland.

Just an interested bystander..amazed at your work as I am..

That might work. I'll have to see if I can get it to print up actual size. That attachment doesn't quite have the whole thing.

I might have something planned. ;)

That is the exhaust manifold gasket. It is exactly port-matched to the manifold itself.
The PDF is full size.
The only difference between the manifold and the gasket are the supports between the ports and the tube that feeds the air pump ports.

I'll try to do one with paper and pencil, though it is bigger than any paper I have around at the moment.

Only 2 out of 3 ports are visable in that file. I assume they are spaced exactly the same between both sides and are both the same size. They should be. The question is where are the mounting holes on that side?

How close is that turbo to the engine mount? It's got to be right up next to it.

Fred you never seem to sleep, makes me wonder. Every other post is written during vampire hours.

oh, that must explain the blood stains in Fred's car. He told me it was b/c being a real estate agent is rough in Houston :D

:confused: The entire gasket is in that file. There must be something wrong with your version of Acrobat. Try scrolling down. Remember, it is full size which is about 14".

The intake port on the turbo just clears it. I'll have more pictures soon enough.

When I pull it up I only see 11 Inches of the 14 inch file. I really don't think anything is wrong with Acrobat. I have version 5 somthing.

OK. Lets try again:

Much better..all the ports are in the PDF now..Thanks.

second pdf has the whole thing now jeff. thanks for the pics its looking realy nice:)

Thanks. Lots more coming tonight!

btw if you just happen to fab up a second one by accident you can just put it in a box and ups it to me. cod the freight :)

Yeah, and Zoom44 actually live in Keizer, Oregon. PM me and I will give you the address. ;)

I could probably swing that.
Freight might be a little pricey, though.;)

Got most of the rest of the piping done today.

Mounted the IC:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/IC_1.jpg

Got the pipes from the airbox and to the throttle body along with the TurboXS BOV:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/turbo/pipe_1.jpg

Turbo is nicely hidden away:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx...o/turbo_in.jpg

Now I need to do the oil supply and drain and connect the pipes to the turbo.
Then, I have to fab the bracket for the WG actuator and a bunch of support brackets for the various pipes to the body or engine and the downpipe to the transmission.
Then, I will put in some heat shields and wrap.

Then, I get to take it all out and clean, polish and re-fit.