Blackenedwings Satan's Hairdryer install thread
 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ryer_small.jpg

Alright, I lied when I said the car was almost done. I've realized that modding this car is an addiction and I'm quite a ways away from being finished. The next phase of the car takes this "mild mannered" street car a bit further. I'm still finishing up the tune with the current setup, but I expect I would hit 330 whp pretty easily with my current mods if I redynoed. I'm not going to right now though.

My next step on the car is threefold:

1) Cleanup. There are a lot of little things that need to be cleaned up and adjusted on the car to make it really nice. The tune needs to be finished up, the oil pan needs to be replaced, the air pump needs to be removed and the battery needs to be relocated. This isn't major and shouldn't take a lot of money, just some time to get everything looking nice inside and out.

2) Weight Loss. The car needs to go on a diet and lose some weight. I'm not sure how much weight loss is practical for a street car, and I'm not getting rid of all the amenities like AC/stereo. The first candidate is the heated leather seats being replaced with some racing bucket seats. I'm thinking either Bride or Sparco would be nice, but I need suggestions here, so feel free to post ideas/thoughts.

3) Built Motor. I just bought a new Renesis motor today from Rotary Innovations in TX which is being sent directly to BDC for a major build. The engine will be bridgeported, fitted with Esmeril Racing apex seals, have mild intake/exhaust porting, and dowel pinning. I'm relying on Brian from BDC for the steps on this motor, but I've heard a lot of positive feedback from people about his work, and he has been very professional (and FAST) in responding to me to make this happen. The new motor will also be accompanied by a new Black Halo Racing clutch and lightweight flywheel.

I'll add pictures of the ongoing work on the car going forward, and if there is something I've forgotten or suggestions about mods please let me know. I started out this project as a complete noob, and although I know more than I did when I started I'm still just doing my best to learn.

Reserved for upcoming pics.

Reserved.

Off to a good start.

I hate to sound like a broken record - but do yourself a favor and drop both motor mounts and brakets....makes install a breeze.

congrats. where are you from?

Best of luck , hope it goes well for you .

what is the difference between your turbo and the 3071R ?

Kane: Planning on it actually, talking with my friend at the garage today, he said it would be a synch to drop the mounts and brackets. Now that I have a garage a block from my house I can do all the work at for cheap with cool people I'm getting really excited about this install.

Dondo: I'm in Columbia MD, between Baltimore/DC. I've been to a few gtgs with the Maryland crew.

Brettus: The GT2871R is similar to the GT3071R with similar flow, although a bit smaller and should spool slightly faster. There are a ton of comparisons out there between the two turbos and even Jeff has made several posts about it before he settled on the 3071 for his upgrade. For the hp target I'm aiming for it seems like a solid choice. I'll actually post some of the info about the turbo because I figure other people will be curious about it too.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...71R_comp_e.jpg
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...-15_comp_e.gif

Depending on trims and A/Rs - Looks to be a tad bit lower on the efficiency scale - with better spool according to the Turbine Map.

it would be nice to know more info on the GT2871R because i would be heading that route as soon as my kit arrives. congrats by the way!

Yup, thats about right. I first heard about the GT2871R looking around old posts on this forum. Jeff mentioned it in a few threads.

Here is a link to a thread from about a year ago where Jeff answered some questions about the GT2871R as an upgrade for the GReddy turbo. He includes the compressor map comparing it to the "Disco Potato" hehe.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=2871R

A good post with Jeff responding to a very rude post about the flow capability of the 2871R.
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=23

Here is one where he announced his upgrade kit where he mentions he settled on the new turbo (3071R).
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=2871R

There are a million and one threads comparing the GT2871R vs. the GT3071R turbos with other cars/motors, especially the SR20 and SR26 motors. Not much concensus on which one is the better option, but it seems to be agreed that the 2871 is a bit less efficient with a bit less flow but it does spool more quickly. I've been assured by a bunch of people who know the car much better than me that it is a solid choice so I'm going to give it a shot. Originally I was going to be using the Devils Hairdryer as well, but MM had decided he wasn't going to sell it anymore due to taking a bath with two units shipped overseas. Now he is selling it again, but I already had the GT2871R.

edit: Also one key thing is that I'm shooting for lower hp targets than some of the guys with the Devil's Hairdryer, so I'm less concerned about room to grow and more concerned with low end response and lack of lag. From all reports the setup MM and mysql are using is pretty damn lag free, but with a 300-325 rwhp target I think the turbo I have will be a nice fit. :rock:

I don't think you can go wrong to be honest... unless you want to max the sucker out - for the 330-350 HP range; I would kinda bet they both feel the same - the rotary will spool that bad boy up in a blink though either way... so lag difference is probably negligable.

That's what I've been told by a few people who I trust. Right now I'm just fiending to get the snail under the hood. One thing I'm trying to decide is if I should put the Racing Beat midpipe on before I get the turbo in. I've never run a midpipe before so I don't know how deafening it's going to be NA without the turbo to soak up some of the volume. Any suggestions?

Do it at the same time; you'll already be there anyway.

And I hate loud exhausts.... and really there is no reason to do it right now anyway.

I guess I'm just curious how deafeningly loud it is NA, and if the turbo is really going to make that big a difference in shutting it up. Honestly I'm just so gd sick of having all these car parts sitting in my living room instead of being in my car, so I'm really tempted to put the midpipe in immediately just so it isn't leaning against my couch. If the sound isn't unbearable that would be my first choice.

Knock yourself out - the job doesn't take long so you can always go back.

I am really looking forward to watching your progress. Good luck!!!

A word of advice... tbolts not worm clamps

Cool, thanks for the luck and the advice, I can use as much of both of them as possible haha. My wife is finally home though, so I'm crashing for the night. Tomorrow I'm remounting my front license plate so the cops have less reason to harass me. Stupid Maryland laws. :(

My only concern is that the turbine on the 2871 is pretty small.
Faster spool is going to be mitigated with a significant amount of spiking and more pressure in the exhaust manifold.
You should look at the corrected turbine flow for both of those before you go to the trouble to install it. (That is the "other" flow map for the hot side that most people can't read.)
You can probably get a new turbine side from a 3071 and have it put together for you.

At the time when I was putting my project together, the 2871 was the "biggest" turbo of its frame.
The compressor side is essentially the same as the 3071r, so that side isn't going to be a problem.

You might want to see if the Garrett catalog lists, at least, a bigger A/R turbine housing. Maybe something over 1.0 or so.

3071 = 2835

Uh, no.

kinda close from a quick glance, but no cigar

I think he was talking about the old Garrett nomenclature.
The closest equivalent to the GT3071r WG in the old Garrett reckoning was the GT35 with the 71mm wheel.
The actual flow map looks more like the old GT37 with the 76mm wheel.

Well, its funny you mention having that looked at, because originally Ray was going to be coming out to do my install and he was going to have me mail out the turbo to you guys to have it looked at and the actuator welded etc. My original plan was to get the 3071R upgrade from you actually, but since you had temporarily stopped selling them, and the kit I got had the 2871R I figured I would do the research for that turbo. Basically, if the 2871R won't be the best choice for me, I won't have a problem selling it because it is a very popular turbo. It's brand new, so I will mark it down a couple hundred bucks, sell it to a 240SX owner and pick up the Devil's Hairdryer. Either way I'm still trying to get Ray to come out here and install, and I'll still be using your maps... so I expect to get a BHR sticker!

Here is the Garret page for the exact model that I have:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._472560_15.htm

This shows the compressor map, which I do know how to read and the turbine map which uh... as you said, not so much. In fact, from what searching I've done online not too many people know how to read them at all. :P

you aint kidding... months back when i was trying to absorb some of the math and theory ni calculating flow i searched the web for 2 weeks trying to find a good explanation of how to read turbine maps to no avail...

does that 2871 bolt up with no modifications? would it work well on an AT? i was looking at that kit in the FS section but i didn't have the money at the time.

It bolts up to the GReddy manifold no problem, but the wastegate actuator needs to be extended and the mounting bracket the same way the 3071R that MM uses did. From what Jeff said the modification is trivial if you know what you are doing and have access to the tools. I have access to the tools but no idea what I'm doing which is pretty much the story of my life. :lol:

Went for a long drive on back roads tonight to try out the new intake, its pretty cool. I will write a review on it actually, but I'm happy with it thus far. The MAF readings seem a bit more sensitive (or something) than the OEM air box as I see more fluctuation on AFR. Everything seems to be at the same ratios it just fluctuates and updates more. When I am off throttle I actually see it update several times before it pegs 20.3 AFR which would normally just peg lean immediately after throttle off. The intake is stock quiet under 4k rpms, but at WOT above that it sounds... um, noisy. It sounds like a jet is trying to take off out of my hood actually around redline. :dunno:

Well I went out and put the car through it's paces today, but I noticed a couple of odd things since the intake went in. When I was installing the intake I had my buddy at the garage clean out the throttle body with throttle body cleaner and swabs and he pulled a fair amount of gunk out. Either because of the intake install or the throttle body cleaning I noticed a very weird smell in the car today after I ran it pretty hot. I can't even really describe the smell, it was ...weird. It was in the cabin both times after I drove the car pretty hard today. I checked the engine bay but I didn't see anything noticably out of place and all my diagnostics through the AccessPORT look good. AFRs are acceptable, water temp, no codes thrown. :dunno:

I did notice the throttle felt a little different today too, almost like the vibrations from the CAI were vibrating down to the pedal. I don't know, I'm so sensitive to any changes in the car that I think I would notice even the tiniest thing. Acceleration seems normal, I'm hitting all the right speeds at the right RPMs. The AFRs do seem different, mostly updating faster, much more sensitive, but at idle it sits slightly richer than normal (14.5) for a few seconds before settling down to 15.0 AFR.

Connect the oil fill line that connects to your CAI to a Catch can. You can get them cheap on ebay, why would you want to chance spitting oil through your TB, probibly what the gunk was from. Happened to me, and alot of people. if you overfill your oil, the blowback goes into your Intake. just cap off the nozzle end of the intake, then connect a catch can to the oil filler cap line, and then the other side of the catch can to a breather. Your car will thank you ;)

Thanks marcux, that sounds like a good idea. Any oil catch can should do right? Doesn't GReddy make a pretty cheap one?

Anyway, turbo news, I will probalby be changing the title of this thread soon... I've been having some chats with a few people on here about my setup and it looks like I will probably be selling my 2871R in favor of a MM upgrade 3071R. Although the 2871R will probably work fine for the car, I don't feel like doing all the other work that Jeff has done with his upgrade kit from the ground up. I will also feel a tad more comfortable knowing other people have tested the kit out extensively. The only downside is that I will not have the turbo installed as quickly as I had hoped because I have to get in line for the upgrade. More news as I get it!

The 3071 may be a little better suited to the aplication . However , If you were planning to run at 9psi and no more I doubt you would notice any difference . And how much more will it cost you ?

Well, he'd be looking at $300 - $500 worth of fabrication work (depending on his relationship to the welder) and another $400 in parts.
So $700 - $900.
He'll sell his 2871 for at least $1k, so its a wash. Might even make money on the deal.

/\ well in that case it's a no brainer ...

Well, the fab work would be free because one of my good friends owns a machine shop with a ridiculous number of tools including many types of welding tools. I honestly don't mind either way. I think the 2871R turbo will work fine, and the fab work doesn't bother me, but I also don't mind using a packaged setup that is being run by other people successfully at the cost of a few hundred extra bones.

If I can sell my 2871R (posted on eBay this morning) then it's a no-brainer. If for whatever reason I cannot get a buyer then I go to Plan B which is to keep the 2871R and start piecing together all the bits that come with the upgrade. The fittings, restrictor, flanges, and replacement pipes etc are worth buying the upgrade for me because I don't want to have to get all of that crap myself.

/\ i'll give you 500 for it LOL

Hehe. No thanks Brettus, 1k and I'll be more inclined!

Jeff, what are the numbers on the turbine side of the 3071R you sell? Whats the A/R? My 2871R turbine is .86 T712.

so you have to weld extra flanges on the 2871 like the 3071 to fit on the greddy manifold and DP?

Yes.
And machine the compressor housing backplane.
And reshape the inlet flange bolt holes for offset.
And port the inlet to match the new flange.
And port the discharge to match the new discharge flange.
And fabricate a custom wastegate actuator bracket.
etc...


Its also an .85 A/R, but a 90 trim wheel (56.5mm).

ok thats what i thought, just making sure.

Yeah, I don't really want to do all of that either even though I have an available machine shop and an eager (read: crazy) friend who could do it.

The real trick is knowing what the offsets and measurements are.
If you have to use your own car/kit as a "practice piece", you are gonna have a lot of down time while you figure out how much back to move the turbo and how high, etc.

Yup. Updating the first page of the thread shortly.

Alright, the first page is updated. I did a lot of thinking the last couple of days and I decided that although the 2871R would probably work just fine for what I want, it would require me to worry about fitment and fab work that I don't feel like dealing with. Honestly for me, it's a big enough leap going FI without having to worry about fitment issues because of my attempts to fabricate bits. For someone more comfortable or excited about doing those pieces the choice wouldn't be so clear cut, but I decided I wanted to go with the MM upgrade. My wife thought it was a good idea (I have a kickass wife) so my order should be in this weekend.

I have my Racing Beat midpipe and a Turbo XS oil-catch-can on the way which I will be putting in within the next week and a new tune coming for my AEM CAI, then I have to start the gauge install so I will have plenty to keep me busy until the Satan's Hairdryer gets here.

I also put a link to a FS thread for the 2871R that I was originally going to use on the first page of this thread. If there is anybody out there that doesn't mind the fab bits, I'm not asking a whole lot for it.

Wow, I just ordered the oil catch can like...yesterday or the day before..and it showed up today. Fast!

confused.

the mm upgrade is available?

beers :beer:

I hope so because I just sent a ton of money to Jeff for no reason otherwise.

^haha yeah he's prob out partying on it ! we wont' hear from him a a few days!!! lol

Haha, hey he has to get those avatar pictures somehow! Those ladies don't take off their clothes for us car dweebs for free.

In all seriousness I was in close contact with Jeff, and he said that I have like 4 people ahead of me in the list, but he is cranking them out and I would have a delivery within 8-12 weeks. It delays my original install date, but no complaints here as it will give me plenty of time to get the rest of the car sorted. I will hopefully be getting a well known name or two from the forum to help me with the install too... more info when I find out for sure.

yes,

me too.

as i hate to see the good people here suffer for a dickwad in korea..

beers :beer:

/\ you liked the chicken suggestion swoope ?