Axial Flow Supercharger
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 934
Likes: 2
From: Central Valley, NY
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
aoshi, to answer your q about heat and intercoolers. I believe that without knowing but betting is that your brothers car has a turbo. That is wwhy everything in the car is hot after a run. If you don't make much heat you don't need to spend time getting rid of it.
When a yturbo is running hard evrything is red hot. That heat has to go someplace. It's going into the water and out the radiator into the air. When you come in after a run it needs more time to get out because it is not moving.
The added radiator helps this condition,
When a yturbo is running hard evrything is red hot. That heat has to go someplace. It's going into the water and out the radiator into the air. When you come in after a run it needs more time to get out because it is not moving.
The added radiator helps this condition,
Registered
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
From: BHM, AL
Originally Posted by Photic
You don't have a car for testing? All of these people in SoCal and nobody has stepped up to offer a tester? Or have I just read things wrong? Do you have a tester with the mystery company? I'd do it if there would be some sort of coverage in case something goes wrong etc.
Superchargers don't have turbine heat. I know it is normal to believe that turbos are driven by "free" power wasted out the exhaust. This is of course untrue. If you took and put an orfice in the exhaustpipe would it take away power? Why do you pay all that money to get bigger exhaust. Why don't you get smaller exhaust pipes if it doesn't hurt power.
So when you restrict the exhaust the heat backs up and has to go someplace.
You have to have the heat to turn the turbine to turn the compressor.
I'm not anti turbo, I just don't believe that an aftermarket kit can reach the level whereby it is acceptable, at least to me. There have to be so many things taken into consideration that it can only be done at the design stage of the car.
I want a turbo car myself, a Bentley Continental should be in my garage.
That's a twin turbo that can run all day because it was engineered by the factory engineers who insist on perfect. That car was tested in Alaska and the Sahara.
No aftermarket turbo system can take everything effected into account.
Superchargers are only a little better, but they don't have the exhaust problem. Then if you take the supercharger with the lowest heat rise you have the best chance of building a succesfull instillation. The heat rise of a roots blower is totally unacceptable for anything over 4 psi. Maybe 5 but no more. the power and heat that effect these units over those numbers fail to make any extra power.
From there we go up into acceptable ranges with the other SC's. Then there is a large leep to the efficency of the axial flow. There is a trade off for everything and for the axial flow it's that it doesn't produce it's peak pressure through out the range. Not all as bad as it sounds though. because it uses less power to drive and makes less heat it will start to overcome a blower making more pressure at a point lower in the rpm range the you would think.
All this is theory, but it is based on real life experience and good old book
learning. Not on rotary's buton many piston engines I have untold hours of dyno and race time. Not to mention street usage.
By chance anyone get Avanti magazine? I had some published material in there this issue I hadn't expected. But my point is that it brought back to me how long ago I was involved in supercharging for race and street. In there it notes that I had a '64 Studebaker Hawk with a Paxton blown two four bal carbs. 304 inch Stude engine that I drove to school every day and went to the dry lakes with it, changed tires and plugs. Ran 150.5. And that was 1965.
Old ain't I. Truth be known that was the factory number 4 car that ran unblown at Bonniville around the 10 mi course for god knows how many hours to set 53 international records. Then I took it on the NHRA trail and ran for the whole year on the national record hardly ever getting beat. I ran it again with a 259 inch shortblock under the same top end with blower and won class at Bonniville at 155 that was 1966. I think that is when it was retired to street use. By the way, I drove it to Bonniville also.
So when you restrict the exhaust the heat backs up and has to go someplace.
You have to have the heat to turn the turbine to turn the compressor.
I'm not anti turbo, I just don't believe that an aftermarket kit can reach the level whereby it is acceptable, at least to me. There have to be so many things taken into consideration that it can only be done at the design stage of the car.
I want a turbo car myself, a Bentley Continental should be in my garage.
That's a twin turbo that can run all day because it was engineered by the factory engineers who insist on perfect. That car was tested in Alaska and the Sahara.
No aftermarket turbo system can take everything effected into account.
Superchargers are only a little better, but they don't have the exhaust problem. Then if you take the supercharger with the lowest heat rise you have the best chance of building a succesfull instillation. The heat rise of a roots blower is totally unacceptable for anything over 4 psi. Maybe 5 but no more. the power and heat that effect these units over those numbers fail to make any extra power.
From there we go up into acceptable ranges with the other SC's. Then there is a large leep to the efficency of the axial flow. There is a trade off for everything and for the axial flow it's that it doesn't produce it's peak pressure through out the range. Not all as bad as it sounds though. because it uses less power to drive and makes less heat it will start to overcome a blower making more pressure at a point lower in the rpm range the you would think.
All this is theory, but it is based on real life experience and good old book
learning. Not on rotary's buton many piston engines I have untold hours of dyno and race time. Not to mention street usage.
By chance anyone get Avanti magazine? I had some published material in there this issue I hadn't expected. But my point is that it brought back to me how long ago I was involved in supercharging for race and street. In there it notes that I had a '64 Studebaker Hawk with a Paxton blown two four bal carbs. 304 inch Stude engine that I drove to school every day and went to the dry lakes with it, changed tires and plugs. Ran 150.5. And that was 1965.
Old ain't I. Truth be known that was the factory number 4 car that ran unblown at Bonniville around the 10 mi course for god knows how many hours to set 53 international records. Then I took it on the NHRA trail and ran for the whole year on the national record hardly ever getting beat. I ran it again with a 259 inch shortblock under the same top end with blower and won class at Bonniville at 155 that was 1966. I think that is when it was retired to street use. By the way, I drove it to Bonniville also.
Last edited by Richard Paul; Jan 25, 2005 at 12:18 AM.
Kaiten Kenbu Rokuren
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 934
Likes: 2
From: Central Valley, NY
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Superchargers don't have turbine heat. I know it is normal to believe that turbos are driven by "free" power wasted out the exhaust. This is of course untrue. If you took and put an orfice in the exhaustpipe would it take away power? Why do you pay all that money to get bigger exhaust. Why don't you get smaller exhaust pipes if it doesn't hurt power.
So when you restrict the exhaust the heat backs up and has to go someplace.
You have to have the heat to turn the turbine to turn the compressor.
I'm not anti turbo, I just don't believe that an aftermarket kit can reach the level whereby it is acceptable, at least to me. There have to be so many things taken into consideration that it can only be done at the design stage of the car.
I want a turbo car myself, a Bentley Continental should be in my garage.
That's a twin turbo that can run all day because it was engineered by the factory engineers who insist on perfect. That car was tested in Alaska and the Sahara.
No aftermarket turbo system can take everything effected into account.
Superchargers are only a little better, but they don't have the exhaust problem. Then if you take the supercharger with the lowest heat rise you have the best chance of building a succesfull instillation. The heat rise of a roots blower is totally unacceptable for anything over 4 psi. Maybe 5 but no more. the power and heat that effect these units over those numbers fail to make any extra power.
From there we go up into acceptable ranges with the other SC's. Then there is a large leep to the efficency of the axial flow. There is a trade off for everything and for the axial flow it's that it doesn't produce it's peak pressure through out the range. Not all as bad as it sounds though. because it uses less power to drive and makes less heat it will start to overcome a blower making more pressure at a point lower in the rpm range the you would think.
All this is theory, but it is based on real life experience and good old book
learning. Not on rotary's buton many piston engines I have untold hours of dyno and race time. Not to mention street usage.
By chance anyone get Avanti magazine? I had some published product in there this issue I hadn't expected. But my point is that it brought back to me how long ago I was involved in supercharging for race and street. In there it notes that I had a '64 Studebaker Hawk with a Paxton blown two four bal carbs. 304 inch Stude engine that I drove to school every day and went to the dry lakes with it, changed tires and plugs. Ran 150.5. And that was 1965.
Old ain't I. Truth be known that was the factory number 4 car that ran unblown at Bonniville around the 10 mi course for god knows how many hours to set 53 international records. Then I took it on the NHRA trail and ran for the whole year on the national record hardly ever getting beat. I ran it again with a 259 inch shortblock under the same top end with blower and won class at Bonniville at 155 that was 1966. I think that is when it was retired to street use. By the way, I drove it to Bonniville also.
So when you restrict the exhaust the heat backs up and has to go someplace.
You have to have the heat to turn the turbine to turn the compressor.
I'm not anti turbo, I just don't believe that an aftermarket kit can reach the level whereby it is acceptable, at least to me. There have to be so many things taken into consideration that it can only be done at the design stage of the car.
I want a turbo car myself, a Bentley Continental should be in my garage.
That's a twin turbo that can run all day because it was engineered by the factory engineers who insist on perfect. That car was tested in Alaska and the Sahara.
No aftermarket turbo system can take everything effected into account.
Superchargers are only a little better, but they don't have the exhaust problem. Then if you take the supercharger with the lowest heat rise you have the best chance of building a succesfull instillation. The heat rise of a roots blower is totally unacceptable for anything over 4 psi. Maybe 5 but no more. the power and heat that effect these units over those numbers fail to make any extra power.
From there we go up into acceptable ranges with the other SC's. Then there is a large leep to the efficency of the axial flow. There is a trade off for everything and for the axial flow it's that it doesn't produce it's peak pressure through out the range. Not all as bad as it sounds though. because it uses less power to drive and makes less heat it will start to overcome a blower making more pressure at a point lower in the rpm range the you would think.
All this is theory, but it is based on real life experience and good old book
learning. Not on rotary's buton many piston engines I have untold hours of dyno and race time. Not to mention street usage.
By chance anyone get Avanti magazine? I had some published product in there this issue I hadn't expected. But my point is that it brought back to me how long ago I was involved in supercharging for race and street. In there it notes that I had a '64 Studebaker Hawk with a Paxton blown two four bal carbs. 304 inch Stude engine that I drove to school every day and went to the dry lakes with it, changed tires and plugs. Ran 150.5. And that was 1965.
Old ain't I. Truth be known that was the factory number 4 car that ran unblown at Bonniville around the 10 mi course for god knows how many hours to set 53 international records. Then I took it on the NHRA trail and ran for the whole year on the national record hardly ever getting beat. I ran it again with a 259 inch shortblock under the same top end with blower and won class at Bonniville at 155 that was 1966. I think that is when it was retired to street use. By the way, I drove it to Bonniville also.
Guess that answers my question and a whole lot more. Thanks Richard
Shifty Bastard.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia.
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
It's crankyoldbastard to you.
Get your shifter yet?
Of course not or you would have said so.
Get your shifter yet?
Of course not or you would have said so.I hope to have the shifter in a day or two.
Gomez.
Shifty Bastard.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia.
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
another Two Weeks??
What kind of car does that Aggisi guy drive that your going to see with your wife??
What kind of car does that Aggisi guy drive that your going to see with your wife??
. There you go, now we're back on topic :D :D :D
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
another
What kind of car does that Aggisi guy drive that your going to see with your wife??
What kind of car does that Aggisi guy drive that your going to see with your wife??
Cheers,
Hymee.
Shifty Bastard.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia.
You are a silly old bastard, aren't you! On the off chance you aren't having a lend of me, I'll state what to most is the bleeding obvious.......Agassi and Federer are TENNIS players! Now you did know that didn't you! If you didn't, you need to get out more....
Hehehe,
When I had lunch with Richard, we walked into this bar in Chatsworth, and these people were all crowded around watching football. I tried to be interested and asked Richard if it was a big game, and who was playing. He replied that since it didn't have anything to do with engines, he wasn't interested :D
Cheers,
Hymee.
When I had lunch with Richard, we walked into this bar in Chatsworth, and these people were all crowded around watching football. I tried to be interested and asked Richard if it was a big game, and who was playing. He replied that since it didn't have anything to do with engines, he wasn't interested :D
Cheers,
Hymee.
Hey Hymee, where did Gomez go? He sure got quiet all of a sudden.
Seriously this is kinda like watching your kids on Christmas. I can just picture him opening his package now. Any bets on how long it will take before it's installed?
Your a funny bloke, Hymee.
Seriously this is kinda like watching your kids on Christmas. I can just picture him opening his package now. Any bets on how long it will take before it's installed?
Your a funny bloke, Hymee.
Last edited by Richard Paul; Jan 24, 2005 at 10:02 PM.
Shifty Bastard.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, Australia.
Why did it have to arrive today, bugger it?? I'm off to the tennis in an hour, the wife is demanding a small parcel of my time. Damn shifter will have to be installed tomorrow now. No sleep for Gomez tonite Signing off.....
Gomez.
Signing off.....Gomez.
I wonder if it could be changed on the fly?? If his wife drove and got into high gear on the motorway Gomez could be changing the shifter quick enough so the new one is in before she needs to downshift. :D
I think it could be done.
Take a video of THAT why don't ya.
I think it could be done.
Take a video of THAT why don't ya.
Last edited by Richard Paul; Jan 24, 2005 at 10:16 PM.
Well I guess Gomez is off to the tennis. Gomez is loosing sleep tonight. So just to relieve the stress Steve don't loose sleep over me I was having a little go at ya. I know who the tennis players are, I don't get wound up over it though.
But everyone knows who your guy Aggisi is.
He's in TV commercials :D :D
Cheers, Crankyoldbastard
I know who the tennis players are, I don't get wound up over it though. But everyone knows who your guy Aggisi is.
He's in TV commercials :D :D
Cheers, Crankyoldbastard