Looking for some audio advice
 

What's goin' on everyone? New to the forum. I have an 05 8 G.T. with bose speakers, Pioneer F700BT and Corksport dash / Bose adaptor. Unfortuantly I'm getting sick of the dull sound coming from the Bose and would like to upgrade, but I'm a bit undecided as to which brand/speakers to buy to get maximum quality.

I did some research before posting here, and I was looking into Dynaudio, but quickly shut them out due to the price of them. I'm sure theyre great but I don't exactly have $800 for a set of components. Then I was looking into the Evolution ZR Series from JL Audio, and since they have an 8" ZR component woofer to put in the doors, i'm more drawn to them since there aren't many speaker sizes to fit that 8.4" hole in the door. Also there's a store on eBay that sells custom boxes for the trunk, that go on the left/right side and they're meant to fit W6's so that also makes JL more appealing to me.

If anyone is familiar with Al-Ed's, I was on the phone with them asking about the ZR's and he suggested a Focal component woofer. So I'm hearing about different brands left and right and I just need some advice as to what speakers/amps are the best for my preferred music. I listen to mostly metal/nu-metal (i.e. Disturbed, Hatebreed, Korn, Godsmack, etc), and very little rap so I guess I'm looking for something with a lot of bass but also very loud high's. TIA for any information!!

PS: My driver's side mirror has a rattling problem, anybody else encounter this/fix it? Thanks again!

I got JL TR 6.5 inch components for the front speakers and made an adapter plate for the 9 inch woofer hole. Very satisfied with the results.

What you need to do is go to a shop with a CD of your music and listen to every speaker in the store with that CD. Then decide what speaker sounds best to you.

Thanks for the quick response, Socket7. I thought of doing that, but I don't know of any audio shops that display the ZR's which is what I was looking into, so I can't test them. I'm probably going to end up with ZR's Since they're JL's top components, but I want to amp them, and I saw in another thread, a member put a 6" W3 in the rear seat console, and I really liked that set up. So here's what I'm thinking:

2- 8" Component woofers for the doors
1 set of- 2 6.5" round/2 2" tweeter/ 2 crossover component set for the rear
2- 2" tweeters for the doors
2- crossovers for the front
1 or 2- W3's
Total of: 9(10) Speakers, 4 tweeters for Highs, 3(4) woofers for lows, 2 6.5"s for Mids

What do you think about that selection of speakers? and what amp(s) and/or cap would I need to power them? Thanks again for helping me out.

Check your mounting depths before you buy those woofers. Maximum depth is listed in the audio reference sticky.

Just because a 8" will fit does not mean that you must do it. A 8" MUST be treated accordingly. You cannot just fire it on in and expect it to do it's job. It needs to be mounted properly, tuned properly (by means of air volume and crossover). 99% of component sets come with a matched woofer / tweeter / crossover for this application. I recommend that you drop your size of the front speaker to a 6.75" component set and call it a day. Use a proper mounting adaptor for the front speakers, sound deaden the doors and you are off and running with a proper setup.

For the rear speakers, keep it simple. If you really want component speakers in the rear, sure fine. However, seeing as the front speakers are far more important, drop the rear speakers to a good set of coax or pointsource type speaker and throw the savings into better front speakers.

For the subs, you can go to the sealed prefab box for the 8 and get some highly predictable results out of them. If you are after lots of bass response though, a single 12" in the proper slot port box will lay waste to them.

JL Audio does indeed make some great equipment. That said, should you really want to get into the world of top notch audio, step up into Morel for your main speakers.

Amplification can be done depending on how you approach your subwoofer system. If you are after a tonal balance (read not overbearing bass response), a single 5 channel amplifier like the Eclipse XA5000 or Boston Acoustics GT50 would be a great start. If you are after balls to the wall bass response, a two amp system comprised of a 4 channel for the front / rear speakers and a mono amp for the subs is the way to go.

www.morelhifi.com for more info.

Basically the way I feel about Bose is I cant find a balance between the bass or treb. If I raise the bass, I can't hear the High's and vice versa. If I do however find a balance, it's simply not loud enough. About 4 years ago I had an S10 Xtreme Extended cab, and i had 2 12" L7s with a 1500w Hifonics amp right behind the seats. It was too much bass and it drained out the treb so I just want a nice setup, all parts of the same brand. Aiming for about 5-600 watts.

I looked into Morel, however they're much more expensive than Dynaudio so I can't afford them.

I understand what you mean about the 8", so maybe I'll build a plate over the hole, buy 3-way components and mount the Low's and mids in there, then put the tweeter in its OEM place.

Basically my budget would be $500 more or less for a set of components. If you have any recommendations for what is the loudest, clearest, if that price range, please help lead me in the right direction. I know I'm being a pain, but I'd rather ask and get the right info before I buy the wrong items and pay for it later.

Morel has speakers in that price range..... keep it to a simple 2 way speaker in the rear and go to 6.75" 2way components up front. Absolutely no need for a 3way set up in the front. The Dotech Ovation 6 components have a CDN retail of $549.00, so they are definitely in reach for you.

I HIGHLY recommend the 4080 boxes over those eBay boxes
http://4080enclosures.com/shop4080/s...sp?idProduct=4

Ok, after a lil' more research, I found the Boston Acoustics SPZ60 2-way components. I really like these since their RMS is 150w per speaker, the tweeter can be taken off the mid and mounted elsewhere, and they're in my price range. Personally I've never heard how they sound, but at about $570 a pair and 150w RMS, how bad can they sound? Last question I have is about the Ohms. the SPZ60's have a 3-Ohm impendance, and the amp I was looking at, the JL G4500 is 125w RMS x 4 @ 2 Ohms. What does that mean exactly if I were to go with those speakers and amp, being that the number of Ohms is different between the two?

Here are the products if you'd like to see the specs:

http://mobile.bostonacoustics.com/ca...product_id=400
click quick specs on the right

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=480
Specs are at the bottom.

Thanks again for everyone who has been helping me make my decision.

I upgraded from the bose and I got JL audio speakers ..... ten times better !
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-interior-audio-electronics-24/got-rid-bose-jl-audos-154724/

thats the thread of what i did with my speakers

here's my upgrade thread: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-interior-audio-electronics-24/jedis-bose-stereo-upgrade-103771/

Thanks to everyone who pitched in. After looking, taking advice and viewing other set ups, here's my decision:

SPEAKERS
Front: JL Audio ZR650-CSi 2-way Components
Rear: JL Audio ZR650-CSi 2-way Components
and also a JL 6W3v34 W3v3 sub to be custom mounted into the rear seat compartment

AMPS:
JL 450/4 4 Channel amp to be hooked up at 4 Ohms
JL 250/1 V2 Mono amp for the 6" W3.

Im confident it will sound nice with the F700BT, and it all works because the 4 channel's RMS at 4 Ohms is 85w, where the components OHM impendance is 4 and their RMS is also 85. Now to save up :)

Thanks again, I owe you all beers :beerchug:

The lower the speaker impedance (ohms) the more power your amp will output. However, with the JL amp you plan on using, power will be the same regardless of impedance. It's an unusual design. Not common, but never the less, decent. And what's is "rear seat compartment" ?

The compartment I was referring to is the plastic compartment between the back seat and the trunk, that you can lock with your key. I don't know the official name for it.

I actually spoke with a JL Tech Rep to ask him something about those components and he recommended 2 different amps.
He recommended the HD600/4 for the speakers. He said that even though the RMS for those sets is 85, they'd be fine handling 150w continuous since the peak rating is 255w. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=482

He recommended the G1300 for the 6" W3. He said the 250/1 is very underrated, that it puts out more than 250 and since that sub can only handle 150 continuous at most, he didn't encourage it. G1300 is 150w RMS @ 4 Ohms, W3 impendance is 4 Ohms. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=477

I've been told Kicker is very good for the type of music I listen to (Metal/Nu-Metal), that it's very bassy and also clear, so I've been checkin them out, and for $875 I can get a 7- 800w kicker system where JL would cost me about $2K+ and only get 6-650w, so if there's anything I should know about Kicker's components, feel free to let me know. Thanks!

I use their amps/subs. No complaints. Their KS-series speakers are a little harsh for my tastes. Go to Circuit City and listen for yourself. Compare with the Polk db-series right next to them. If you feel the same way, how about Kicker amps/subs and JL components?

Not sure if it will fit or not, but have you looked at the kicker 6 1/2 inch subs, or even their 6 1/2 midbass speakers to fill the void in the door and have some great sound?

firebirdude: What do you mean by harsh? too bassy? distorted? If you mean bassy, then that makes me want them more. I've been to 2 shows so far (Rockstar Mayhem Fesitval in August and Hatebreed just last week), and after hearing them at a show, it's just not the same without the crazy bass. I'm not gonna buy the KS, if anything, the SS Components. Ill be sure to take a ride to CC, but in the end, I don't think I'm going to do subs. The trunk is pretty small and I always have my bowling bag in there which fills the center of the trunk, plus the spare tire takes more room.

simplec: Yes I have, I'm actually going to install one between the 2 rear seats. IIRC, they're free-air so its simply cut the hole and mount it in/install. I'm going with the SS65.2 components for the front and rear, they contain 2 6.5" speakers and then 2 1 3/16" tweeters, and also the crossovers. theyre 90w rms so I'm going to use kicker's ZX650.4 multichannel amp and only turn it up 3/4 of the way. Then the ZX150.2 bridged to power the SSMB6 midbass woofer. I was worried that the bass may drown out the treb so I may also install SS30's on the pillars above the seatbelt to equalize it a bit more.

Thanks to everyone who's helped me with this, if it wasn't for you guys I'd probably be buying much more expensive speakers and get the quality I'm not exactly looking for :sweatdrop

IMO they have little midrange with an ear piercing tweeter. After hearing the Polk dB's and the Kicker KS's in probably 100 different cars and probably 100 hours on the showroom floor.... they have roughly similar "bass" outputs. Which isn't much. But who buys a component set for bass? The overall tonality is where the Polk absolutely destroy the Kicker's. They sound 100% more natural. The tweeter mixes near flawlessly with the midrange. The Kicker tweeter screeches away from the midrange. Not only sounding harsh, but more importantly, sounding unnatural. It's not a volume contest.

The odd thing is that some associates disagree with me. It's such a night and day difference that I'm a little shocked by this. To each their own I guess. But those liking the Kicker more honestly lose points in my book. If they can't hear the obvious differences between the two, they shouldn't be offering advice to customers. I encourage you to listen to the coaxils, but especially the component sets. (Should be set up in the "thump room" at CC). Try them with and without an amp. Please let me know your opinion too. Just to see your thoughts on the topic. Don't worry. Online buddies don't lose any cool points if you choose the Kickers. :)

you guys are wasting your money with kicker or jl.......you paying for an overrated name that circuit city and other big box stores like to sell....now ive heard some jl and kicker stuff but its only good items are the top of the line stuff...like kickers $1000+ component setup....but you should really check into www.memphiscaraudio.com its worth every penny you spend...and guess what? thats not that much....

firebirdude: I understand what you mean. Well I'm looking at the Polk DB's right now, and they do handle more bass than the SS's, and I can only take your word on the sound quality. It's not that I'm looking to use my components for bass, but I'd like to get the most out of my interior set up without having to add subs. Thanks for the advice, perhaps I'll go Polk. All this research is startin to fry my brain :eyetwitch lol

alexanderiv99: I did look into Memphis already, I didn't like that their 6" components only had an Rms of 50 and a peak of 100, which i stated above, and in previous posts, I don't want to add subs so the speakers I choose will have to have a Higher RMS than that. Without bass, It'd be like turning the bass -6 and treb +6 IMO. Not the setting for me. Also the Kicker setup I considered was almost $1000, probably would have went over that after shipping.

How are the Polk SR's? I'm sure by price they're much better than the DB's?

I've never heard the SR's, but surely they're no slouch. And I'd really reconsider your choice of no subwoofer. A subwoofer is an integral part of a well rounded audio system. Be it for home or car.

Did you check out the 4080 boxes I linked earlier?:http://4080enclosures.com/shop4080/s...oduct=4&image=
They really don't take up that much room. Maybe just the driver's side box? A single 10"? And who carries a spare tire with them anyway?! Your car didn't come with the Mazda Roadside Tire Repair Kit?

It's just that I don't think you're going to be satisfied with the bass output of any of these 6.5" in this application. You're going to have less bass than you do right now. Ditching those 9"ers in the front doors is going to remove all of that.

And PS. Memphis is nothing to write home about. Decent company, but certainly nothing special. Their quality is right on par with Kicker or Polk. As far as pricing, you can get them all cheaper online than you can in the store. So who cares.

I guess if a sub is that much of a necessity I can install one. And yes I did look at the 4080 enclosures That's what I'll be using when the time comes.

Im not sure what kit I have, but I have that ugly yellow wheel bolted to my rear strut bar, and the tools behind the cargo net in a plastic compartment.

How will I have less bass when the bose system is 300w and I'm aiming for about 800w?

Check out Boston acoustics. I am an authorized retailer for Boston and I love EVERYTHING they put out. Their SL60 component set can be found for around $200 online and it will be the best 200 bucks you've ever spent.

You are ditching two 9" woofers and replacing them with a 6.5" midrange/tweeter set.

By the same reason, which would output more bass, a 12" with 200W or a pair of 3 1/2" with 300W?

I guess the 12" since it's bigger and can pruduce a deeper bass. Good point. I'm not too keen on how to pick out the components I only really know how to install them, so sorry for the noobness. Right now the Polk SR's are looking better than the kickers, and I was considering ordering a set the other day. How are Polk's subs? Would it matter if I went with another brand for the sub or are best results aquired when all items are the same company?

BA was one of the first brands I looked at, the SPZ's are way too much and the SL60's are at 80 RMS. also the tweeters look a little plain and they don't look like they can be flush mounted. I'm sorry for being so picky about this but I did reasearch just about every high end brand and there was always something that turne me away from them. But Polk right now seems golden for what I'm lookin for, unless there's any bad things about them like there was Kicker.

You deserve to be picky! It's your audio system and your money!

When it comes to those low frequencies, it's all about air displacement. Which speaker can move more air. The two 3 1/2" speakers simply do not have the cone area or travel to equal the output of the 12".

And brand matching means nothing, but sure does look much better. My personal pet peeve is mis-matching amps. lol I realize different amps may be better for someones specific application, but it just makes the install look ghetto. If you want to go with all Polk speakers/sub and Rockford amps, that's fine IMO.

I agree completely. A frend of mine has an MTX sub, an Alpine amp, Eclipse Speakers, and Kenwood deck.

Well I was only considerig Rockford because I couldn't find anything to match the specs of the Polk's but I saw the Polk PA500.4 and they're 250 x 2 @ 4 ohms in 2-channel mode which is perfect. As far as Subs go, I need a 10" and Polkaudio.com doesn;t have any 10" subs on their sight. such a shame since the SR 12" looks so nice. Regardless of price, what are THE BEST 10" subwoofers on the market?

Memphis??
 

Memphis cheaper? Dollar for dollar better than JL or kicker?. I looked, Kicker has cheaper similar sized speaker sets and more expensive sets. JL is expensive yes, but have you ever heard anyone that has them complain? Hey though, if you'd like to put that Memphis 15 inch heavyweight sub on their website with a MSRP of $1,500 up against a Kicker 15L7 MSRP of $550 you'd make me a betting man already with a grand in my pocket.

Uh. Which website are you looking at?:lol:
http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/subs/10inch/

Using two 4-channel amps plus a sub amp is going to play hell with your wiring. 9-channel RCAs anyone? How about a single PA1100.5? Bridge the 4-channel section to power your front stage, sub output on the sub, and power the rear speakers off the headunit? Build up that front stage and simply everything? Just an idea.

And IMO, the headunit doesn't count when it comes to match up. Some of the better manufacturers of headunits make crappy everything else. And those that make great amps/subs/speakers don't make headunits at all. If you wanted to make an entire setup all one brand.... Alpine?

I'm going to go out on a limb here.... lol

alexanderiv99, what gear are you using in your car now?

What the hell? Lol I was looking on polk's site but when I clicked subwoofer it only brought me to the 12" section. OK so I can get the SR series 10"

Specs for the PA1100.5:
250 watts RMS x 2 bridged output at 4 ohms + 600 watts RMS x 1 at 1 ohm

The sub's impedance is 4 Ohms so what does that mean for getting the most out of that set up? and Won't it sound a little off-balance with the fronts amped and the rears not amped?

I looked at MMat's too but the only components I saw are 3-way and where will I put those 5" or 4" mids in the front? Also their own site has no specs for ohm impedance or wattage.

That SR 10" sub is also available in dual 4 ohm. Meaning you can run it at 2.

Ugh I wish I understood Ohms more. so what's the outcome of an amp pushin 600 at 1 ohm to a 2 ohm sub? how many watts will actually be goin to it and whats the defference between the ohms matching and them not matching?

Ohms are a measure of resistance. If an amplifier makes 200 watts of power at 4 ohms impedance , then it will make 400 watts of power at 2 ohms (halving the impedance doubles the amount of current used)

Few amplifiers like being wired up to a system with less then 2 ohms impedance. Check your owners manual before using anything less then 4 ohms or serious damage to your amplifier could result.

Also remember that the amp itself is going to have current limitations, so an 800 watt amp wont produce 1600 watts at half the impedance. it can only ever do 800. trying to make it produce more will probably just damage it in the long run.

Also remember impedances and power ratings aren't exact. Your numbers are never going to be exactly double or half or whatever.

http://www.bcae1.com/ <--- Read chapter 7. All you ever wanted to know about resistance/impedance. Actually, read the whole website. It's a must for anyone into car audio. Ohms law is one of the most fundamental basics of electronics.

Thanks for that site. That did explain it a bit more, but that was more focused on how much power the amp really puts out for each Ohm impedance, which I did understand. Maybe the answer is so obvious I'm just overlooking it, but what I don't know is how to calculate whether the speaker can handle it or not. I have no idea what I'm confused about, I'm confusing myself as I'm typing this (not exagerrating)

Maybe I'm asking it wrong, so I'll try again. The Ohm Impedance on the amp measures the resistance and in turn, how much power is actually coming out depending on how it's hooked up. What does the Ohm impedance on the Speaker measure? What does it represent?

A speaker has a fixed impedance. Usually in cars, it's 2 or 4 ohms. Some subs have dual voice coils, which gives you an option of wiring them up in series or parallel, to get a couple different impedances (this really just gives you more ways to hook it up).

Your amp has a maximum output power. This is measured in peak and RMS. Pay more attention to RMS then peak. RMS is the average maximum output. No matter how you wire your amp, it wont produce more power then that. At any given impedance, you can expect to get a certain amount of power, out of a certain amount of current. For your amp to produce 150 watts of power at 4 ohms impedance, it will use about 6.1 amps of current. To produce the same 150 watts at 2 ohms, you'll draw 8.6 amps of current. (I = Square Root of (P / R))

The lower impedance/resistance of a circuit, the more current will flow through the circuit. So too low of an impedance on a speaker will cause an amp to draw too much current, overheat, fail, or blow fuses. Too high an impedance and you won't be able to extract the full rated power of your amp, because not enough current will flow through the circuit.

Read your amplifiers manual, if it can take a 2 ohm load, then use 2 ohm speakers. If it can only take a 4 ohm load, use 4 ohm speakers. This will insure you get as much power out of your amps as possible.

Realistically, you are never going to be playing your system at RMS power levels for any extended period of time. You'd go deaf. I've measured SPL's of 120DBa inside my car, and the whole system is running with a 60 amp fuse at the battery. the amp has 100 amps worth of fuses on the side.

When you are talking about the subjective listening experience, numbers are an excellent guide to get you in the ballpark, but once you're sure nothing is going to explode on your system by looking at the numbers, they become pretty much useless for measuring the quality of the speaker/system.

So hypothetically if you were to hook up 4 ohm speakers to an amp powered at 2 ohms, would it blow out the speakers because more power is coming in than its meant to handle or will it simply resist the power at the speaker and put out as much power as the amp would at 4 ohms? or did I just completely misunderstand what you said? I'm not so concerned about this personally because I am going to match the Ohm impedances, but I am a little embarrased at myself for not understanding Ohms.

On a side note I'm applying to Mobile Technical Traing school in Jersey, and I'll be starting in March 09 and graduate in september 09.

Using higher impedance speakers then an amp is intended for is fine. You won't be able to extract the most power out of your amp with a higher impedance, but for SQ projects, thats not necessarily a big deal. I think my JL's up front are all 4 ohm speakers, and my amp is rated for 2 ohm minimum load. Still loud as all hell when I crank it up, and they sound damn good too given the amount of tuning ability I have in my current setup.

If you use to low of an impedance, then the amp will draw more current then it's designed to handle and bad things will happen ranging from distortion to blown fuses, to amplifier death.

electricity is very mysterious. Not really intuitive. I really recommend beating your head against that BCAE website until you start being able to see how things work inside your head. Once you start understanding how current effects voltage effects wattage effects amperage, the role of resistance in circuits, it will all start making sense.

Of course. I'm gonna study that as much as I can before March. Thanks a lot for explaining that to me I now have a better understanding of it.

I think that's the key sentence to understand. I can use a 16 ohm subwoofer if I want. The amplifier won't output much power to it, but it's still completely safe.
At 100% efficiency. Which is completely impossible, but I get where you were going with it.:)

Put the spec sheet up to your ear and tell me how it sounds. If you can go ahead and buy on a spec. If you can't perhaps you should start taking in advice from some of the well traveled people that are directly involved in car audio and have been since christ was in diapers. You are flip flopping around more than a fish out of water and in the end all of your "research" is going right out the window. You can have the "best" equipment in the world and have the worst reults possible if it is matched incorrectly, used incorrectly and installed incorrectly. No offence intended with the next comment but if you state you know how to install, you would also know how to match equipment to your needs and to what the install needs. Stop now before you spend cash on items that will not give you the results you are after. What you want is a highly predictable outcome for your investment, this takes time and $.

Nothin for nothing, but the reason I am "flip flopping like a fish", if you will, is because I've read numerous opinions from everyone who has posted, and some contradict others. "get Memphis" "don't get memphis", "this brand is good", "this brand sucks" so telling me to take advice from people who've been around since "christ was in diapers" wont do me much good, would it? Because taking the advice of one will ignore the advice of another. And I also took your own advice by dropping the 8" woofers in the front and going with 2 way components instead of 3. So how am I not taking advice, because I continue to keep an open mind of different brands/opinions, and am picky about it?

And who are you to say I don't know how to install or match equipment!? I'm completely capable of installing and tuning sound to my liking, but right now my main concern is to not buy amps or speakers that is too powerful or not powerful enough for the other, which is why I'm trying to match the specs more than anything else.

Of course I want a highly predictable outcome for my investment, and everyone's input has shined light on some companies I wouldn't think of (Polk, MMat), so I actually am taking advice from those who have been so kind to help me, how can you expect me not to take insult to what you just said!?

No insult intended dude. Just to draw a much closer attention to what you have going on here. Yes there are some on this forum who cannot give advice without reading it somewhere else. There are on the other hand a select few of us that can indeed give you the information that you desire. It is your job to sift through the posts and figure out whom these people are and if you like research the information that is posted or ask them their background.

Your 8 is a nice vehicle, I have worked on a couple now for full systems and they are without a doubt a real pita. The new radio deletion kit from Metra or Corksport is going to solve many headaches for the people who are on the path to the start of good sound in their 8. You are on a good path as well, save for the flip flopping based on what?

Everyone hears different, everyone has a different bias when it comes to what works and what does not. I am biased against Kicker for business reasons, not personal ones. As a business owner (in Canada so it is different in the US market), Kicker is just not a good investment for me, this means it is even a worse investment for my customer.

One thing that being the owner of a shop leads to is this. I get to play with all the lines, get to experiment, get to know what works with what and how. All on a much grander scale than the average consumer. I do things different than the consumer and many of the shops as well. Does it mean the other shops are wrong, no, it means perhaps that I look at what is in the customers best interest and if I do not have what they need, I find it.

JL Audio is another example of poor business in Canada. While the line itself I like and is rock solid, if you think it is overpriced in the US market, wait until you see it in Canada. In most but not all cases, the Canadian dealer is forced to pay what your retail price is as our dealer cost. The line in Canada is about 40% more than what it sells for in the US. Is this in my customers best interest? If the customer can afford it and the product is right for the install, then yes. Otherwise, there are many other great options to consider.

Keep your system simple. Just because a speaker can handle 150w rms of power does not mean that you need to give it that. A speaker given 50% less power will on the average play approximately 3db quieter, that is all. That is a difference that you can notice as a slight change in output levels (or ah crap, my girl is talking to me and I better pay attention).

You need to look at what your goals are again. Start from scratch here is what I recommend. You do indeed want a highly predictable outcome, you are prepared to do it right. You are my favorite type of customer, one whom wants to learn and become educated and is not afraid to try on their own. Take it a step at a time and slow down some.

There is much wisdom in these words. :bowdown:

well yeah, but I didn't think i needed to state that 100% efficiency in ANYTHING is impossible according to the laws of thermodynamics. :) I also didn't want to have to do math with non whole numbers, then explain how I pulled 86% efficiency out of my ass instead of some other number to do my calculations with.

Maybe I should caution that when wiring 2 4 ohm speakers up in parallel, you can end up with less then 2 ohms impedance because your speaker won't necessarily be exactly 4 ohms each? But then I have to caution that it could be more then 2 ohms, or that your amp could be fine running a load of 1.724 ohms? It starts introducing all kinds of "if" when you include those losses. Makes things more confusing then they need to be.

Why 86%? This amp I'm looking at only does 84%. Can you crunch all the dem numbers for me again?:)

And although I can't honestly say it has caused a problem, I HAVE been worried that the actual Re of the subwoofer(s) was too far from nominal and when paralleled may cause an issue with the amp I was using. But like I said, I've never had a confirmed issue.

OK then Forbidden, I apologize for the blow-up. I must say that on the Avic411 forum, members are quick to be a smartass and insult, so that's how I took it, But I see it's not like that here, again I apologize.

Maybe I asked for the wrong thing from the start. As I am aware of and decently educated in the main name brands, Kicker, Alpine, JL, etc, (I personally owned products from Kicker Alpine Pioneer and Hifonics) I feel that these brands (for anyone wealthy who owns these brands, please don't take offense) that they are a mediocre to good quality. What I'm looking for is very high quality sound and bass, more so bass. I wanted to see what experienced members had to say, what they'd recommend, and why. What I'm looking for is a lot of bass in the cabin, something that will, not make it hard to breathe, which my Kicker's did at full boost, but something that will deffinitly blow me away. But at the same time, nice, clear and crisp High's for when I listen to something more subtle. What brands or models will give me exactly this I guess is what I am asking. I've heeded Firebirdude's advice and I am going to go with a single 10" subwoofer (or is 2 subs recommended for balance) with a 4080 box, and 2 sets of 6.5" components amped. That is basically the structure of what I'm looking to buy.

On a side note, I took everyone's advice and went to Best Buy to hear them myself...absolutely nothing was accomplished...First they had about 20 different HU's and none had any FM or AM stations, with no CD's available. great, at least I know how static sounds differently throughout the speakers. Second, They had a WIDE selection of Alpine and Infinity...nothing more. Then I asked for the electronics rep to get a personal opinion, and he was in the back, so I had to follow the manager to the installation department, only to find myself talking with a 16 year old kid who knew absolutely nothing about electronics, other than Alpine and Infinity, which is what the store carries. I asked how he felt about Polk, Kicker, JL, MB, BA, and I just found myself mentioning names while he stood there shaking his head.