Great idea shared
10-11-2003, 09:11 PM
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Great idea shared
Hey just wanted to share the idea Spin9K (forum member) shared back some time ago.
He mentioned how he bough these discontinnued speakers from Radio Shack (tweeters) and added them to his car by installing them next to the door window speakers. I ran out and bought the speakers as soon as he shared that thread and have had them sitting in the drawer for about two months UNTIL TODAY. I installed them in about 15 minutes solder and all as per his instructions.
The sound is fantastic. Especially for $20 (reg $40) the price. I cannot express to you what a difference tweeters make in this car. Like Spin9K said, that is what is missing - the highs. Now it sounds great. The Bose system seems to reporduce bass well already. I have a fantastic sounding home system and did not want to sink a lot of money in a car system but improvement was needed. This fit the ticket well. Thanks Spin9k for your share. I finally did it.
He mentioned how he bough these discontinnued speakers from Radio Shack (tweeters) and added them to his car by installing them next to the door window speakers. I ran out and bought the speakers as soon as he shared that thread and have had them sitting in the drawer for about two months UNTIL TODAY. I installed them in about 15 minutes solder and all as per his instructions.
The sound is fantastic. Especially for $20 (reg $40) the price. I cannot express to you what a difference tweeters make in this car. Like Spin9K said, that is what is missing - the highs. Now it sounds great. The Bose system seems to reporduce bass well already. I have a fantastic sounding home system and did not want to sink a lot of money in a car system but improvement was needed. This fit the ticket well. Thanks Spin9k for your share. I finally did it.
10-12-2003, 11:05 AM
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I have added 2 small Kenwood tweeters to the same location, and I agree that it is like a night and day difference.
If you have the stereo cranked and you and a passenger covers the tweeters with your hands, the quality of the sound just literally disappears.
I also took the 2" Bose speakers out of their mount and used an Exacto knife to shave off the high side of the hole they mount into. Doing that has redirected the sound from pointing into the dash and directed it more towards my head. I did this at the same time as adding the little tweeters, so I can't say whether that really helped much, but I'm sure it did.
The tweeters I bought came with 5-way mounting capability, but I could not find a good flat place to mount them so I could swivel them. I had to just mount them on the outside of the plastic piece where others have.
See pics
If you have the stereo cranked and you and a passenger covers the tweeters with your hands, the quality of the sound just literally disappears.
I also took the 2" Bose speakers out of their mount and used an Exacto knife to shave off the high side of the hole they mount into. Doing that has redirected the sound from pointing into the dash and directed it more towards my head. I did this at the same time as adding the little tweeters, so I can't say whether that really helped much, but I'm sure it did.
The tweeters I bought came with 5-way mounting capability, but I could not find a good flat place to mount them so I could swivel them. I had to just mount them on the outside of the plastic piece where others have.
See pics
10-12-2003, 11:15 AM
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Could you just replace the Bose speaker that is already there and have it sound just as good? I'm just leary about adding a speaker there. Knowing me I'd jack my car up! :D
10-12-2003, 01:00 PM
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I think that you might lose some high midrange frequencies if you just got rid of the 2" speakers and replaced them with tweeters.
I would not be afraid of "jacking" the car up. I only had to drill 2 tiny holes into the plastic to mount the ones I used. Even if you screwed it up and had to order new plastic parts for the doors....I can't imagine that they would be too expensive. Of course, knowing the way things go when it comes to parts ordering.....they probably only come with the 2" speaker mounted and would be about $200/piece or something stupid like that.
I would not be afraid of "jacking" the car up. I only had to drill 2 tiny holes into the plastic to mount the ones I used. Even if you screwed it up and had to order new plastic parts for the doors....I can't imagine that they would be too expensive. Of course, knowing the way things go when it comes to parts ordering.....they probably only come with the 2" speaker mounted and would be about $200/piece or something stupid like that.
10-12-2003, 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by RX-Nut
How do you folks wire this new tweeter?
How do you folks wire this new tweeter?
He also has a longer set of instructions here.
10-12-2003, 03:15 PM
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Looks great 91 vert!
8th1der - the problem is that the speaker in there now is a full range and the needed full range sound near your ear is important too.
It really isn't that hard to do. The trick is to figure out where you want it up there.
RX Nut
Just look at the link from mmm to the directions that Spin9k posted. They are perfect. He even mentioned how that there is a snap inside a foam piece that you push in with your fingernail. Knowing that I removed nothing and just snapped it off. Very easy. The whole job was quick. The soldering took the longest.
8th1der - the problem is that the speaker in there now is a full range and the needed full range sound near your ear is important too.
It really isn't that hard to do. The trick is to figure out where you want it up there.
RX Nut
Just look at the link from mmm to the directions that Spin9k posted. They are perfect. He even mentioned how that there is a snap inside a foam piece that you push in with your fingernail. Knowing that I removed nothing and just snapped it off. Very easy. The whole job was quick. The soldering took the longest.
10-12-2003, 04:13 PM
#12
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Originally posted by 8th1der
Could you just replace the Bose speaker that is already there and have it sound just as good? I'm just leary about adding a speaker there. Knowing me I'd jack my car up! :D
Could you just replace the Bose speaker that is already there and have it sound just as good? I'm just leary about adding a speaker there. Knowing me I'd jack my car up! :D
This is hard to come by. The best solution I have found is the NX30 from Image Dynamics. It has a resonant frequency of 890Hz and can easilly be crossover as low as 1600Hz. This is very rare but necessary for proper direct replacement.
The only authorized internet dealer for them is sounddomain.com.
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/IDSNX30
Not cheap but Image Dynamics stuff is top notch. I have them on order and I plan to do a direct replacement. I will hopefully be able to do it next weekend when it comes in. At first I plan to use the electrolytic capacitor that is already there, then I will upgrade it to something that is a little higher quality than electrolytic from Madisound.
-Mr. Wigggles
10-14-2003, 03:25 AM
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I personally know Eric Stevens, the founder and owner of Image Dynamics. Their tech, Matt Borgardt, used to work with me at a shop in Houston called Audio Designs right before he went to work with Eric. It was with these guys that I would travel the country and go to all the shows. Me and Matt built several show cars together. Fun times. I remember when that tweeter (NX30) came out. We had the prototypes and did much of their testing. There wasn't much of an R&D center at Image back then so Eric would sent alot of his stuff to us. Matt would run all kinds of tests of speakers of all kinds including, tweeters, mids, horns, subs, ect. We'd also modify many existing units or have custom ones built for our show cars. See, some competitors do have an advantage! We had 2 different horn mold styles that made it to show cars as well as several custom, one off woofers. The midline CD-1 horn speakers were actually a spin off of my experiments in my RX-7. I wanted a smaller horn motor than the top model but didn't want the cheap piezo drivers of the CD-1E. I ordered some small dome compression drivers from an outside company and we tested them. Immediately we sent the frequency tests to Eric and he started to develop a mid priced horn around our findings. I also have 1 of only 2 pairs of fiberglass minihorns in existence. They didn't make them in fiberglass so it took a while to convince Eric to make me a pair. I now have a mold of that horn here at home but have never used it. My fiberglass horns may end up in an RX-8 one day. For a while they were physically molded into the top of my 2nd gen RX-7 dash with 8's in the floor in the front footwell of the car. No affect on drivability. Matt taught me alot. He was the head installer and I was 2nd in the custom installation department there. Yes there were more than 2 installers! Anyways sorry for the rambling. I just thought that MrWigggles might enjoy the history.
The reason the NX30 has such a low resonant frequency is because it is a 1" dome. Most other tweeters are smaller. Many are 3/4" domes while some are as small as 1/2". I swear by a larger tweeter and so does Eric. That was the smallest size he would make that tweeter in. He actually wanted a 1 1/4" tweeter but it would be too big package wise and many people like a less obtrusive speaker. That Radio Shack tweeter in the picture looks like a Piezo-electric tweeter. Extremely low quality but it does prove a very good point. That point is that human hearing is very easily fooled. 75-80% of the music comes from the midrange. This leaves only a small spectrum to come from the subs and a small amount from the highs. Any lack of frequency is noticable though. Even a low quality tweeter can sound good in a system if it is only there for fill. If it had to play lower, say replace that Bose 2", it would sound like crap. It's not what you have, it's how you use it! This is absolutely true in audio.
The reason the NX30 has such a low resonant frequency is because it is a 1" dome. Most other tweeters are smaller. Many are 3/4" domes while some are as small as 1/2". I swear by a larger tweeter and so does Eric. That was the smallest size he would make that tweeter in. He actually wanted a 1 1/4" tweeter but it would be too big package wise and many people like a less obtrusive speaker. That Radio Shack tweeter in the picture looks like a Piezo-electric tweeter. Extremely low quality but it does prove a very good point. That point is that human hearing is very easily fooled. 75-80% of the music comes from the midrange. This leaves only a small spectrum to come from the subs and a small amount from the highs. Any lack of frequency is noticable though. Even a low quality tweeter can sound good in a system if it is only there for fill. If it had to play lower, say replace that Bose 2", it would sound like crap. It's not what you have, it's how you use it! This is absolutely true in audio.
10-14-2003, 10:00 AM
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I like the idea of changing the tweeters so they point more towards the driver's/passenger's ears, but I think the add-on tweeters look hideous - no offense!
Isn't there a better way than adding on those wart-like surface mount things?
Isn't there a better way than adding on those wart-like surface mount things?
10-14-2003, 07:25 PM
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Well, I just installed a pair of JL Tweeters per the instructions on this thread and yes, they do sound good, but I'm not sure about all that better.
The reason why is the sound doesn't seem as balanced (that's the best way I can describe it). Granted, there are definitely highs were there wern't before, but it seems to aparent. I have played around witht he audio settings and just can't get it perfect. I'll keep trying however.
Right now, I'm still up in the air about the install.
Here are some pics for Mikeb.....
The reason why is the sound doesn't seem as balanced (that's the best way I can describe it). Granted, there are definitely highs were there wern't before, but it seems to aparent. I have played around witht he audio settings and just can't get it perfect. I'll keep trying however.
Right now, I'm still up in the air about the install.
Here are some pics for Mikeb.....
10-14-2003, 07:57 PM
#19
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Rotorarygod,
Thanks for the exploits. I will let you know how the NX30 sounds.
Image Dynamics and the preachings of Richard Clark really helped me see the light that car stereo is more than just booming down the road. Front imaging is both the most important and hardest thing to achieve.
I actually prefer edge driven hard dome titanium tweaters but it is hard to find them in a small package with a resonance that goes as low as the NX30. A small German company called LPG makes some but they are friggin huge.
I do like the concept of crossing the tweeters low at 2KHz like Bose has done and then use a big woofer in the front doors. They just should have used a tweeter that can go a little higher in frequency response.
We should have a beer sometime.
-Mr. Wigggles
Thanks for the exploits. I will let you know how the NX30 sounds.
Image Dynamics and the preachings of Richard Clark really helped me see the light that car stereo is more than just booming down the road. Front imaging is both the most important and hardest thing to achieve.
I actually prefer edge driven hard dome titanium tweaters but it is hard to find them in a small package with a resonance that goes as low as the NX30. A small German company called LPG makes some but they are friggin huge.
I do like the concept of crossing the tweeters low at 2KHz like Bose has done and then use a big woofer in the front doors. They just should have used a tweeter that can go a little higher in frequency response.
We should have a beer sometime.
-Mr. Wigggles
10-15-2003, 03:49 AM
#21
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MrWiggles: A beer sounds great to me. I'm a homebrewer. I didn't even notice you were in Houston. Where at? I'll have to break out the old photo albums sometime and show you some of our cars as well as my old RX-7 install pics. I still have the McIntosh amp from that car.
BTW: Don't get me started about Richard Clark. I've met him and chatted with him many times. He may know his stuff but he is a really big a$$hole! Many of us live to see him fail. He tries alot of experimental stuff and then makes claims before he porves them. When he fails we laugh at him. A great example was several years ago when he made a 5 foot woofer that he claimed would top 170 db with his 60000 watts of Krell prosound style amps powering them. The record then was about 160 or so. He hyped it up, made big claims, made bets, and drew a crowd to the DB drag lanes where he lined up against Alma Gates. (Wonderful woman. Saw her again a couple of months ago). Alma slammed back a 160.??? Richard's van started to rattle violently. The meter read about 145 db. A few seconds into the run there was a big boom. The roof of the van (concrete reinforced) flexed about 6" upwards and there was a huge puff of smoke. He blew the magnet off of that huge pos. Great moment. I've got the pics somewhere. The whole convention center exploded with laughter and Clark went home with his tail between his legs. I really don't like him. David Navone isn't much better.
BTW: Don't get me started about Richard Clark. I've met him and chatted with him many times. He may know his stuff but he is a really big a$$hole! Many of us live to see him fail. He tries alot of experimental stuff and then makes claims before he porves them. When he fails we laugh at him. A great example was several years ago when he made a 5 foot woofer that he claimed would top 170 db with his 60000 watts of Krell prosound style amps powering them. The record then was about 160 or so. He hyped it up, made big claims, made bets, and drew a crowd to the DB drag lanes where he lined up against Alma Gates. (Wonderful woman. Saw her again a couple of months ago). Alma slammed back a 160.??? Richard's van started to rattle violently. The meter read about 145 db. A few seconds into the run there was a big boom. The roof of the van (concrete reinforced) flexed about 6" upwards and there was a huge puff of smoke. He blew the magnet off of that huge pos. Great moment. I've got the pics somewhere. The whole convention center exploded with laughter and Clark went home with his tail between his legs. I really don't like him. David Navone isn't much better.
10-15-2003, 03:02 PM
#24
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Originally posted by mikeb
yes, its called flushmount installs
yes, its called flushmount installs