feeler thread: rx8 stealth box in the pass through
11-03-2004, 03:50 PM
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feeler thread: rx8 stealth box in the pass through
A while back, there was some interest in a stealth box that sits in the pass through that can hold one 8" sub. We here at motor music have done just that, and we can do it again for anyone who's interested. The box would be part mdf, and part fiberglass. I have attached a rough sketch of how it would look, and a picture of the one that we have done for a member of this board , Tamas. We would like to know how many people would be interested in commissioning something like this to be made for their cars.
here are the pictures:
here are the pictures:
11-03-2004, 04:50 PM
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is that a piano black finish? I rather have the current finish.... also that price is very very steep now that the mold is finished.... plus u might have a problem with this forum and the rules... u need to talk to the moderator for permission to be a dealer here.... but i suggest you lower your pricing if you want to sell any of these
11-03-2004, 05:23 PM
#3
can you still do it with two subs? also I wonder what leather finish would look like
if you can do this for closer to $500 (shipping not included) you may have a winner
this unit would be drop in right? and then can be removed and replaced with the pass through panel right?
if you can do this for closer to $500 (shipping not included) you may have a winner
this unit would be drop in right? and then can be removed and replaced with the pass through panel right?
11-03-2004, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jniamehr
is that a piano black finish? I rather have the current finish.... also that price is very very steep now that the mold is finished.... plus u might have a problem with this forum and the rules... u need to talk to the moderator for permission to be a dealer here.... but i suggest you lower your pricing if you want to sell any of these
11-03-2004, 09:58 PM
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My uninformed opinion is that at $800-$1000 you will sell a few. At $500 you will sell a lot more. A LOT more.
jds
jds
Originally Posted by s2l
Yes we can do 2 6" JL Audio 6w0. A leather finish would look pretty good depending on what type of leather, texture, and color. The unit would be a direct drop in and can be removed without any modifications at all.
We have debated a long time over the price of the unit which is why this has not been posted earlier. $500 each could be a possibility. But ill have to get back to you guys on it.
We have debated a long time over the price of the unit which is why this has not been posted earlier. $500 each could be a possibility. But ill have to get back to you guys on it.
11-04-2004, 11:08 AM
#7
It sounds very well (to my ears anyway). Mine is a sealed box which gives you more precise, clean bass - but if it's desired, they can do it with a ported enclosure that will be louder.
I was not looking for earth-shattering or really booming bass, but for rather something that gives a much-needed clean low end fill - and I got just that.
If you are looking for some serious bass, this is not the way to go - you don't get that with a single 8" sub. But if you want to have more fidelity and good fill, this is a good solution.
I was not looking for earth-shattering or really booming bass, but for rather something that gives a much-needed clean low end fill - and I got just that.
If you are looking for some serious bass, this is not the way to go - you don't get that with a single 8" sub. But if you want to have more fidelity and good fill, this is a good solution.
11-04-2004, 06:19 PM
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Ditto all that about the price. I hate to be a tight-***, but it's just not worth it to me to spend a fortune on a single driver.
What would be an awesome, and much cheaper and more popular, project, would be to build and sell the box itself, with a blank baffle. Let me cut in some 6.5" JLs, for example, or an 8" driver, or whatever. Mold the box and sell it for $200 or so, with damping material inside and binding post terminals on the bottom, and you'd be making a lot of sales.
What would be an awesome, and much cheaper and more popular, project, would be to build and sell the box itself, with a blank baffle. Let me cut in some 6.5" JLs, for example, or an 8" driver, or whatever. Mold the box and sell it for $200 or so, with damping material inside and binding post terminals on the bottom, and you'd be making a lot of sales.
11-04-2004, 06:25 PM
#11
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What is the volume of the enclosure in cubic feet?
This thread asked for interest and I will thus give my opinion. It is going to be difficult to get low frequency bass with "significant" volume with just about any 8" sub.
For one most 8" subs have Fs values in the 40's or higher. To get a low 3dB down point with an Fs that high you will need a sub with a overly large Qts. (For a sealed enclosure generally you want your Fs/Qts to be about 65 or lower with Fs preferably higher than 20Hz to reduce "slop" and Qts lower than .6 to reduce boominess). Having a high 3dB down point will require equalization to achieve good 40Hz and lower response.
The other reason is that the total amount of air moved by an 8" woofer is typically low for a sealed enclosure. How much bass you can get out of a sub is primarilly dependent on its cone area times its Xmax so an 8" woofer generally has two strikes against it. With a ported enclosure the port does all the work at the tune frequency to reduce the excusion, but with a sealed there is no getting around the need to pump the air. As an example 10" woofer with a .7 inch Xmax will typically produce 3 times the bass of a 8" woofer with a .4" Xmax for a sealed enclosure.
I don't think the Diamond Audio CM308D2/4 shown is the best choice for the passthrough enclosure (unless it is in fact tiny). For a $500 enclosure price, a 8W7 makes more sense. It has over twice the excursion and thus will make over twice the bass (7dB) given the right input power. In the attached graph, I show either sub in a .6 inch enclosure. The top graph is of the 8W7 being fed 600 Watts (its specified maximum) and the bottom curve is the Diamond audio being fed 500 Watts (it specified maximum). The difference between the two subs is as much as 3 dB at 50Hz - that's a good size difference. Also, the JL sub will be able to play just about any frequency at 600 Watts without exceding it Xmax while the 500 Watt rating of the Diamond audio sub is strictly for peak transients in program material; feed it a 30Hz sinewave and 150 Watts will likely top its Xmax. With some eq-ing likely needed, the 8W7 sub will be more receptive of bass boosting. Give it a 3-6dB boost at 32 Hz and you should have plenty of deep bass.
Please don't get me wrong. I think a passthrough sub is a great idea and I have been trying to get one for a long time now (long story). It is just that getting good low frequency response out of a sealed 8" is not easy and doing a ported enclosure with a detachable front panel is no fun.
Good luck
-Mr. Wigggles
This thread asked for interest and I will thus give my opinion. It is going to be difficult to get low frequency bass with "significant" volume with just about any 8" sub.
For one most 8" subs have Fs values in the 40's or higher. To get a low 3dB down point with an Fs that high you will need a sub with a overly large Qts. (For a sealed enclosure generally you want your Fs/Qts to be about 65 or lower with Fs preferably higher than 20Hz to reduce "slop" and Qts lower than .6 to reduce boominess). Having a high 3dB down point will require equalization to achieve good 40Hz and lower response.
The other reason is that the total amount of air moved by an 8" woofer is typically low for a sealed enclosure. How much bass you can get out of a sub is primarilly dependent on its cone area times its Xmax so an 8" woofer generally has two strikes against it. With a ported enclosure the port does all the work at the tune frequency to reduce the excusion, but with a sealed there is no getting around the need to pump the air. As an example 10" woofer with a .7 inch Xmax will typically produce 3 times the bass of a 8" woofer with a .4" Xmax for a sealed enclosure.
I don't think the Diamond Audio CM308D2/4 shown is the best choice for the passthrough enclosure (unless it is in fact tiny). For a $500 enclosure price, a 8W7 makes more sense. It has over twice the excursion and thus will make over twice the bass (7dB) given the right input power. In the attached graph, I show either sub in a .6 inch enclosure. The top graph is of the 8W7 being fed 600 Watts (its specified maximum) and the bottom curve is the Diamond audio being fed 500 Watts (it specified maximum). The difference between the two subs is as much as 3 dB at 50Hz - that's a good size difference. Also, the JL sub will be able to play just about any frequency at 600 Watts without exceding it Xmax while the 500 Watt rating of the Diamond audio sub is strictly for peak transients in program material; feed it a 30Hz sinewave and 150 Watts will likely top its Xmax. With some eq-ing likely needed, the 8W7 sub will be more receptive of bass boosting. Give it a 3-6dB boost at 32 Hz and you should have plenty of deep bass.
Please don't get me wrong. I think a passthrough sub is a great idea and I have been trying to get one for a long time now (long story). It is just that getting good low frequency response out of a sealed 8" is not easy and doing a ported enclosure with a detachable front panel is no fun.
Good luck
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by MrWigggles; 11-04-2004 at 06:36 PM.
11-04-2004, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by abbid
what about 2 8 inch w6's ?
11-04-2004, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by offdaheeze
Count me in if it's at a $500 price point, will you provide instructions on how to integerate it in into our systems.
11-04-2004, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hard 8
Ditto all that about the price. I hate to be a tight-***, but it's just not worth it to me to spend a fortune on a single driver.
What would be an awesome, and much cheaper and more popular, project, would be to build and sell the box itself, with a blank baffle. Let me cut in some 6.5" JLs, for example, or an 8" driver, or whatever. Mold the box and sell it for $200 or so, with damping material inside and binding post terminals on the bottom, and you'd be making a lot of sales.
What would be an awesome, and much cheaper and more popular, project, would be to build and sell the box itself, with a blank baffle. Let me cut in some 6.5" JLs, for example, or an 8" driver, or whatever. Mold the box and sell it for $200 or so, with damping material inside and binding post terminals on the bottom, and you'd be making a lot of sales.
11-04-2004, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MrWigggles
What is the volume of the enclosure in cubic feet?
This thread asked for interest and I will thus give my opinion. It is going to be difficult to get low frequency bass with "significant" volume with just about any 8" sub.
For one most 8" subs have Fs values in the 40's or higher. To get a low 3dB down point with an Fs that high you will need a sub with a overly large Qts. (For a sealed enclosure generally you want your Fs/Qts to be about 65 or lower with Fs preferably higher than 20Hz to reduce "slop" and Qts lower than .6 to reduce boominess). Having a high 3dB down point will require equalization to achieve good 40Hz and lower response.
The other reason is that the total amount of air moved by an 8" woofer is typically low for a sealed enclosure. How much bass you can get out of a sub is primarilly dependent on its cone area times its Xmax so an 8" woofer generally has two strikes against it. With a ported enclosure the port does all the work at the tune frequency to reduce the excusion, but with a sealed there is no getting around the need to pump the air. As an example 10" woofer with a .7 inch Xmax will typically produce 3 times the bass of a 8" woofer with a .4" Xmax for a sealed enclosure.
I don't think the Diamond Audio CM308D2/4 shown is the best choice for the passthrough enclosure (unless it is in fact tiny). For a $500 enclosure price, a 8W7 makes more sense. It has over twice the excursion and thus will make over twice the bass (7dB) given the right input power. In the attached graph, I show either sub in a .6 inch enclosure. The top graph is of the 8W7 being fed 600 Watts (its specified maximum) and the bottom curve is the Diamond audio being fed 500 Watts (it specified maximum). The difference between the two subs is as much as 3 dB at 50Hz - that's a good size difference. Also, the JL sub will be able to play just about any frequency at 600 Watts without exceding it Xmax while the 500 Watt rating of the Diamond audio sub is strictly for peak transients in program material; feed it a 30Hz sinewave and 150 Watts will likely top its Xmax. With some eq-ing likely needed, the 8W7 sub will be more receptive of bass boosting. Give it a 3-6dB boost at 32 Hz and you should have plenty of deep bass.
Please don't get me wrong. I think a passthrough sub is a great idea and I have been trying to get one for a long time now (long story). It is just that getting good low frequency response out of a sealed 8" is not easy and doing a ported enclosure with a detachable front panel is no fun.
Good luck
-Mr. Wigggles
This thread asked for interest and I will thus give my opinion. It is going to be difficult to get low frequency bass with "significant" volume with just about any 8" sub.
For one most 8" subs have Fs values in the 40's or higher. To get a low 3dB down point with an Fs that high you will need a sub with a overly large Qts. (For a sealed enclosure generally you want your Fs/Qts to be about 65 or lower with Fs preferably higher than 20Hz to reduce "slop" and Qts lower than .6 to reduce boominess). Having a high 3dB down point will require equalization to achieve good 40Hz and lower response.
The other reason is that the total amount of air moved by an 8" woofer is typically low for a sealed enclosure. How much bass you can get out of a sub is primarilly dependent on its cone area times its Xmax so an 8" woofer generally has two strikes against it. With a ported enclosure the port does all the work at the tune frequency to reduce the excusion, but with a sealed there is no getting around the need to pump the air. As an example 10" woofer with a .7 inch Xmax will typically produce 3 times the bass of a 8" woofer with a .4" Xmax for a sealed enclosure.
I don't think the Diamond Audio CM308D2/4 shown is the best choice for the passthrough enclosure (unless it is in fact tiny). For a $500 enclosure price, a 8W7 makes more sense. It has over twice the excursion and thus will make over twice the bass (7dB) given the right input power. In the attached graph, I show either sub in a .6 inch enclosure. The top graph is of the 8W7 being fed 600 Watts (its specified maximum) and the bottom curve is the Diamond audio being fed 500 Watts (it specified maximum). The difference between the two subs is as much as 3 dB at 50Hz - that's a good size difference. Also, the JL sub will be able to play just about any frequency at 600 Watts without exceding it Xmax while the 500 Watt rating of the Diamond audio sub is strictly for peak transients in program material; feed it a 30Hz sinewave and 150 Watts will likely top its Xmax. With some eq-ing likely needed, the 8W7 sub will be more receptive of bass boosting. Give it a 3-6dB boost at 32 Hz and you should have plenty of deep bass.
Please don't get me wrong. I think a passthrough sub is a great idea and I have been trying to get one for a long time now (long story). It is just that getting good low frequency response out of a sealed 8" is not easy and doing a ported enclosure with a detachable front panel is no fun.
Good luck
-Mr. Wigggles
11-05-2004, 01:33 AM
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You should also consider that some of us would like to maintain the stock appearance, or at least not advertise the fact that there is something worth stealing in the trunk. A black grill cloth cover that approximates the contour of the factory glove box would be nice.
I think the idea of just the unloaded enclosure would also be a good option as many people have strong brand loyalties when it comes to entertainment systems. Someone who might be interested in it may pass on your box because of the brand or model of sub loaded in it.
How about a matching custom fit amp rack as well for either the seat back area or a false floor?
I think the idea of just the unloaded enclosure would also be a good option as many people have strong brand loyalties when it comes to entertainment systems. Someone who might be interested in it may pass on your box because of the brand or model of sub loaded in it.
How about a matching custom fit amp rack as well for either the seat back area or a false floor?
11-05-2004, 01:41 AM
#17
isn't this something you did before? if not it is along the lines of what many are interested in...I wouldn't mind this setup with the subs set back a bit and a rotary inspired grill
11-05-2004, 10:16 AM
#19
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Truemagellen,
Those are 6.5 inch drivers. Getting them to go low is going to be even harder than an 8". You would be better served putting those 6.5" drivers in custom enclosures in the doors replacing the 9" drivers that are currently there. (They would make better midbasses than 9" drivers currently in there. It would also get the bass farther forward in the cab.)
-Mr. Wigggles
Those are 6.5 inch drivers. Getting them to go low is going to be even harder than an 8". You would be better served putting those 6.5" drivers in custom enclosures in the doors replacing the 9" drivers that are currently there. (They would make better midbasses than 9" drivers currently in there. It would also get the bass farther forward in the cab.)
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by MrWigggles; 11-05-2004 at 05:39 PM.
11-05-2004, 05:38 PM
#21
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xrider,
Is there any way to make your enclosure removable?
IMO, your 10" enclosure is the way to go, but I still use my passthrough about 3-4 times a year for stuff so I don't want to completely lose access to it.
That's why s2l's enclosure looks encouraging, but you run into the limitations of a 8 inch sub particularly in a sealed enclosure.
There is no clear easy solution on this one.
-Mr. Wigggles
Is there any way to make your enclosure removable?
IMO, your 10" enclosure is the way to go, but I still use my passthrough about 3-4 times a year for stuff so I don't want to completely lose access to it.
That's why s2l's enclosure looks encouraging, but you run into the limitations of a 8 inch sub particularly in a sealed enclosure.
There is no clear easy solution on this one.
-Mr. Wigggles
11-05-2004, 06:24 PM
#22
Originally Posted by xrider
Here's a pic of my 10" in the passthrough.
baby seat must rumble!
11-06-2004, 12:54 PM
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wow, theres alot of good ideas floating around now. It is starting to look like it would be more advantageous to produce each box to a customers specs vs just one basic design. I'll let you guys know the full details once i have obtained vendor status.
Ken
Ken
11-06-2004, 01:34 PM
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Well... price is a big factor for many. I think brand of speaker will be another. A possible solution which has been mentioned is to offer just a box... no speaker.
I dunno about just have an MDF box and having a "pop off" FRP panel that goes on it in the front. I think I'd prefer an all in one unit and one that is made as compact as possible. The RX-8 doesn't have much of a trunk, and I think most pass-through people are looking to keep as much as possible. So I am... concerned... about the amount of space a MDF box will take up versus a FRP box. Is it not possible to build it out of FRP?
I dunno about just have an MDF box and having a "pop off" FRP panel that goes on it in the front. I think I'd prefer an all in one unit and one that is made as compact as possible. The RX-8 doesn't have much of a trunk, and I think most pass-through people are looking to keep as much as possible. So I am... concerned... about the amount of space a MDF box will take up versus a FRP box. Is it not possible to build it out of FRP?
11-06-2004, 02:10 PM
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"rx8 stealth box in the pass through "
Forgive me for stating the obvious....
None of these are a truly "stealth" install...
I'd like to keep the stock appearance.
Perhaps the 10" could be installed deeper back in the pass-thru
and covered with a fine black metal mesh which would
keep the same contours as the current pass-thru lid.
Once again, cost is a factor... $800+ is pricey...
Forgive me for stating the obvious....
None of these are a truly "stealth" install...
I'd like to keep the stock appearance.
Perhaps the 10" could be installed deeper back in the pass-thru
and covered with a fine black metal mesh which would
keep the same contours as the current pass-thru lid.
Once again, cost is a factor... $800+ is pricey...