Another audio thread :)
 

Hello,
Today I decided to go to a local audio shop to have a talk with their install guy. I went in not knowing exactly what I wanted and told him I was up for suggestions. He looked at my trunk and explained it would be easy to make a box for a 12" sub. Here is what he quoted me and I wanted your guys opinions thoughs on this setup. To me it sounds like a LOT more than what I need. I really just want to improve the bass (I have the bose currently). Here are the components he showed me:

Eclipse 12" Alum Cone 900W 4 OHM DVC (SW7324DVP) - $187 (seemed reasonable)
Eclipse 490 4 Channel Amp (EA3422) - $208 (also seemed reasonable)
Install - $75 + $80 (custom box) - $155 (not bad since I don't want to mess up the installation myself and don't have the time)

What are thoughts opinions for just wanted to upgrade my bass? I don't need anything ridiculous, but I don't have anything to compare this against. Is a 12" too much for just wanted to improve bass? I know its probably everyone's own opinion, but this setup seems too much. Also does anything know any reviews on these items? I googled for a while, but couldn't find any reviews that really say anything much on the amp, the sub got good reviews, but again nothing definitive from a trustworthy source. Please let me know any thoughts, thanks.

akersjp

First of all....12's do not fit easily fit in our trunk. given there is only about 13 inches to work with. Second, if you have the Bose system you'll ned to invest in a differential line converter. (i'm sure the guy didn't know that) Third, why are you buying a 4 channel amp for a sub? If your getting a 4 channel amp you'll need new speakers, plus another amp for your sub.

I'd go with 2 10s instead of the 1 12, the 1 12 will be cramped a bit, but not impossible. As far as the 4 channel amp, there's nothing saying you can't go with that but I wouldn't unless you want some flexibility for future use. (like if you planned on swapping factory highs later or something) If you're just wanting something to drive the sub, a 2 channel with a nice built in crossover should be just fine :) A 4 channel is a bit of a waste.

Rotary Rasp,
Thanks for the response, this is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to find out. The 12" didn't fit too bad in the trunk, he had 2 layouts, with it in the back of the trunk and with it laying flat facing up. I explained I had the bose system, but I don't think he really thought about it. How much is the differential line converter? I'm not buying anything yet, so the 4 channel amp is just something he showed me, thats why I posted what he showed me and wanted to know all your guys opinions.
Are you sure I would need new speakers and another amp for the sub? Can't they just use 2 channels? Anyways, I don't if this is what I need or not, just starting a conversation to help flush out details that I can go back and ask him about. So everyone here just have a 2 channel amp? Thanks again for the response, any help is great.
akersjp




First of all....12's do not fit easily fit in our trunk. given there is only about 13 inches to work with. Second, if you have the Bose system you'll ned to invest in a differential line converter. (i'm sure the guy didn't know that) Third, why are you buying a 4 channel amp for a sub? If your getting a 4 channel amp you'll need new speakers, plus another amp for your sub.

canaryrx8,
Just saw your reply, sorry I was in the middle of replying and you answered my question. I really think I just need to drive the sub and don't care about future use (although would it hurt, and like rotary rasp said would I have to get new speakers and another amp???). And are the eclipse pretty safe to go with? And where were you thinking to mount the 2 10's? He said if I wanted to do it on the sides of the trunk that would cost more for the custom fiberglass install....thats why he suggested just the box. Thanks again.
akersjp

If I were you, I'd just get a box for a 10" sub from 4080 and put a sub in there with a JL Audio amp. No need for a 4-channel amp for that - get a dedicated mono amp for the sub.

If all you want is bass, buy a mono amp, a 10" sub, and a box from 4080. of course you'll also need a line-out converter and have to tap into the rear speakers. This is exactly my setup! optimum setup.

Or you could go with one 8" or 10" sub if space is an issue. 12" is overkill for this car IMO --you don't want to drown out your highs.

This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to start. Thank you everyone so far for the replies.
Ok sounds like the 12" is overkill. 2 replies said from get a 4080 sub, is there a link to this or a model # or a brand? I did a google for "4080 sub" and got varied results. Also sounds like a mono amp is all I'll need, what about a remote control for the amp so I don't have to a) cut into my car to get a control for it, and b) I can adjust volume to amp without getting into the trunk? I asked the guy at audiosmith about this and they said remotes aren't really done anymore, I figured that was crap, but wanted to know everyone's thoughts on that.

afeldman327 - Sounds like your setup is really simple...what do you do about controlling amp volume and if you had to tap into the rear speakers was that really easy to do?

Thanks everyone again, this is great info.

akersjp

Just want to add, Eclispe subs are really good.They hit hard & clean.The aluminums are pretty good for that price. I have the Eclipse titanium series in my 8.

4080 is a username on this board - send him a PM and inquire about his sub enclosure.
As for a remote gain adjustment for the amp, that should be no problem - I've seen threads where people had such a gain control knob installed upfront, in the area of the coin tray or the center console. A decent audio shop should not have a problem with that.

I'll throw in my $0.10. I went with a JL Audio 10" sub in a factory built enclosure, along with a JL Audio e1400D amp to drive it. Don't tap into the rear speaker lines for the signal. Tap into the pre-amp low level signals.

Here's the thread that shows what I did:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-interior-audio-electronics-24/jl-audio-subwoofer-install-48837/

Here's a thread about tapping into the pre-amp low level signals from the Bose amp:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-interior-audio-electronics-24/pre-amp-outputs-tapped-stock-bose-16214/

-Carl

TRU681 - What size is the sub that you have from eclipse? Good to hear you like them, makes me feel easy about that brand.

Tamas - for the remote gain control, I'm thinking of a wireless remote....audiosmith said they would route a wired control to the front, but I would rather have wireless, any suggestions from anybody on this one?

Thanks again.

Bose line converter: http://store.yahoo.com/logjam/sounlocbosli.html

I said you should get new speakers because you said you're getting a 4 channel amp, so I thought you were going to amp your highs. Don't get a 4 channel amp for a sub because you can not get them with Class D circuitry. Most 4 channel amps only come in A and AB which is not good for a sub amp unless you like having a stove in your trunk. If I were you i'd buy a Infinity Basslink and replace the rear 6x9's....it would cost you about 400 bucks for everything and you could install it yourself in no time.

Yeah, the Basslink is a good idea if installation simplicity is important.

Close but no banana's guys. Don't get fooled by the effiecientcy of a class D amplifier, there is nothing wrong with a class AB, matter of fact that was what was used for years before Class D was even available. What the original post needs is this.

1) a way to control the sub
2) a way to integrate it into the factory system
3) the option for expansion in the future
4) a decision on what type of output levels he is expecting
- annoy the neighbourhood
- round out the sound
5) a proper match of components

Follow these rules

1) good bass response is all about the box.
2) good bass response is about being able to control it.
3) good bass response is about matching equipment together properly.
4) a happy customer is one that knows how to use the system properly.
- the person does not expect too much from something too small
- the person does not keep the system pinned at full output.

Go to this site and read my grounding sticky, it is a must in this vehicle, even for a basic sub system. It is in the car audio forum. www.the12volt.com

What you need is simple.

1) a good interface module
- Audio Control LC6 in this case
- takes the factory preamp line and converts it to a signal for your amp to run.
- add the additional bass remote for control of the sub indipendent of the main volume.
2) a box designed around the sub chosen.
3) an amp that will work with the chosen sub properly.

Advice is free anytime, I am swamped here at the shop right now and I have been working some totally crazy hours. I am on the PST time frame

I started with 1-12 inch Eclipse titanium Sw9122(750watts rms/1500peak).It was a tight fit to get the enclosure in.Now I have 2-12inch Eclipse titaniums now, one on each side of the trunk angled towards the rear 6x9's hole.

No doubt that is a tight fit, what beast are you using to power those monsters. The Expedition that I have had here for 3 weeks has these subs in it.

I have a Phoenix Gold Titanium 1000.2 triple darlington circuitry(the last line of US built quality for Phoenix Gold), a very flexible amp.It is also very underated in output.I'm into SQ so the 1000rms is plenty for my liking.
250x2 at 4ohms CEA rated
500x2 at 2ohms CEA rated
1000x1 at 4ohms bridged(birth sheet tested at almost 1200watts rms). CEA rated

Class AB produce a better sound however they will get hotter. Class AB amps have better THD however, that's not important for subs because you can't hear the distortion anyways. Class AB amps are more likely to cause dimming of the head lights. This isn't my opinion, these are facts.

Great post & I totally agree.That's why I have a class A/B amp to power my subs.Though it has more current draw & sound quality is better than Class D monoblocks.The enclosure is the biggest factor on how the sub will sound.

The new generation of class D amps have a much more advanced internal circuitry and their sound quality has drastically improved. A shining example of this is the Xtant 1.1 amplifier. Now what most people don't understand about subs is damping factor. This is the amps ability to control the motion of the driver. As impedence drops, so does the amps damping factor. A sub amp driven at 4 ohms has far better control of a sub than a amp driven at 1 ohm, by a longshot actually. Current draw on the two amps is also close to the same. Yes the Class AB will run hotter, but it is also designed to get hot. Heat is a natural byproduct of amplification. How a system is wired and fired is at the discretion of both the installer and the salesperson, sadly there are many of these people that just do not do things correctly.

Want to bring up a question I had earlier, what about a sub that is remote (wireless) controlled? Thanks in advance....

When i said sub, I meant gain control for amp...sorry.

Also, I sent a PM to 4080, but I haven't heard anything about the sub box enclosures for about 2-3 months. I read through all the threads and seems like the whole thing kind of died down. Anybody know off hand if he is still making them (I did pm him, but just curious...), or if anybody has one that they want to sell? Thanks.

thought I should clarify, when I say I haven't heard anything for 2-3 months, I mean in previous threads I was searching through. I just pm'ed him today when it was recommended. Hopefully someone else will post so I'm not the only one posting 10 times in a row :)

The last I heard of a wireless bass remote was from Soundstream, the airbass and IIRC it never made it to market here in The Great White North eh! Use the wired remote option and take the remote apart. It will mount into one of the factory knockout panels in the dash to the left lower side of the steering wheel.

Please explain or lecture about the damping factor when you have time.I would really like to learn about that.

Will do, today is probably not a great day for it. What I might do is add it as a tutorial on my home forum and maybe one of the mods can link to it. I have a monster job to clear here in the next 3 days and then another RX8 on the go as well + renos to do. I am booked 2 months in advance. I'm here right now as it is my lunch break.

where are you from forbidden?

Courtenay, British Coumbia, on Vancouver Island. Ocean on one side and a glacier on the other. No smog, no major crime, no major traffic and no major snow and freezing temperature swings.

Forbidden, is your name Brian? and would you happen to work in the States ever in the southeast, say at a stereo shop by the name of Sound Effects? You sound like my Bay 1 (high end installations/fabrications) installer that used to work very close with me and the other co-owner....

No, I am Rob the owner of the shop that Brian worked at in Nanaimo, BC. I have 18 years in the industry primarily in sales, management (of course as owner of my own stores for 10 years), installer of course and all around smart a$$.

Here's a picture of the Phoenix Gold titanium 1000.2, the middle one with dual fans.

Big nasty bastard...... hehe. I mounted my subs in 1" clear acrylic in a mirror plexi box. I made a 1/4" powder coated steel ring and bolted the subs into place and sandwiched the acrylic inbetween. I have some pics coming soon. His subs are driven off the big nasty dual 1000 watt DA7232 Eclipse amp.

So basically I'm stuck between deciding with a 10" and a 12". My friends all tell me 10" isn't enough. I would rather go with 10" so I can get 4080's box setup, but don't want to regret not getting the bigger sub. I just want to add some tight bass, doesn't have to be obnoxious. Let me know what you guys think and if anybody has gone with the 12", how is it? I can fit the 12", but it'd take up all my space. Please let me know any suggestions and or thoughts...thx again.
akersjp

i am currently doing my system now and I am going with a 12. We are building a fiberglass enclosure on the rear driverside of the trunk. it will not be much larger than 4080's box. But the key is your components. we are going with a Boston G5 12. This woofer is designed for small boxes. Bass preference is completly up to you. i was in the car stereo inidustry for several years and i don't think i have ever met a customer that was satisfied with one 10

XTACY,
Will your box fit with a spare tire? Thats my current problem in my trunk. Thanks.
akersjp

I have done a dual 12" sub box under the rear deck in this car and I am about to do it again. Remove the rear seat, remove the rear deck, remove the center console, remove the top rear center storage unit. Remove the plastic barriers behind the seats and finally remove the metal crossmembers. Voila, a nice phat hole to drop a sub box through for two 12" subs. In my case I used Lightning Audio Strike aluminum subs, this time it will be Eclipse aluminum subs in the proper 2.5 cu.ft sealed enclosure. Fire the subs towards the rear of the trunk. If you are only going with one sub, it is all about the box, the Eclipse aluminum driver takes a 1.25 cu.ft. sealed enclosure and it provides deep bass with authority. It is not a one note wonder like other subs on the market but a sub that in this box is highly capable of multi tone bass response without hanging up on itself.

Tell your friends that they are wrong, a 10" can and will play the same deep bass as a 12", it just cannot do it with the same amplitude for the most part. This changes from type of sub to type of sub. The Eclipse aluminum 10" is what I used in my MR2 and with a pair of them, it was waaaaaaaay too much output. Hope this answers your questions.

forbidden,
That answers a lot, so would it be better going with 2 10"s? Is that just going to make it louder, won't help how deep it goes I assume right? But with 1 10" can it get pretty loud? Thanks in advance.
akersjp

Ok, another question. How would this setup be:

Infinity Kappa Perfect 10.1D (dual voice coil)
Rockford fosgate 5 gate 4chan amp (somebody told me I would need 4 chan if I had a dual voice coil sub)

Would this work with the bose system, I'm assuming I still would need the bose line converter for this to work. Thanks.
akersjp

I did not want to loose too much of the little trunk that i have. yes i have the spare tire and there will be enough room to move he tire in and out of the trunk. but to be honest fiberglass enclosures are not cheap and typically woofers that work well in (very) small enclosures are more expensive.

you do not need a four channel amp for a dvc sub.

XTACY,
Can you explain about not needing the 4 channel amp for a dual voice coil sub? I guess I don't understand what the dual voice coil amp is for and why it is better. Also, what kind of subs would fit better in smaller enclosures, or what should I look for in the specs of subs to find this out? Thanks.
akersjp

I'm also in the process of choosing my audio set-up for my 8, Forbidden has been a big help answering all my questions. The fact that the sub is a dual voice coil has no bearing on the type of amp as long as the impedance isn't lower than what the amp can handle. You could get a mono 1-channel amp for the sub and a 4-channel amp for the fronts/rears or one 5-channel amp to do it all.

I'm going with a 5-channel amp and one 10" sub in one of 4080's boxes. I'll probably be going with the Eclipse PA5532 or Crossfire vr705d 5-channel amp and either an Eclipse Aluminum or JL 10w6v2 sub. Haven't decided on front components, probably Boston or Focal and replace the rear 6x9's with something not too expensive since they're only for rear fill.

^^^ Remember to match front and rear speakers for tone & timbre, like brands are closer to the same. A dual voice coil sub allows more wiring configurations for different amplifiers. In 99% of cases a 4 channel amp is not a good idea for a dvc sub. A dvc does not sound or perform better, it is all about wiring configuration to differing amps. Ignore specs on subs, they will not tell the average consumer how it sounds in your car. Eclipse makes some really good subs that perform exceptional in small sealed boxes.

So yes you still need the interface adaptor, in this case with the Bose system, use the Audio Control 6XS, non Bose system, use the LC6 + bass remote. If space is a concern, a single 5 channel amplifier + the proper choice of sub is the way to go. The Eclipse PA5532 amp I mentioned earlier will operate properly with one dvc sub of either 10" or 12" variety.

I'd definitely go with Boston over Focal.

People have their own prefferences but Boston is not in the same league as Focals.

What makes you say that? Bostons Z6 are pretty impressive speakers compared to what the same money will get you from Focal.

Both are good speakers, but we all hear differently, choose a speaker for how it sounds first and foremost. I prefer the top end of the MB Quart as I am hard of hearing (go figure) but prefer the midbass of the Focal. With the relative instability of MB Quart right now, this is why I have not been recommending them.