Front Air Dam not available for AT RX8?
10-14-2003, 12:20 AM
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Front Air Dam not available for AT RX8?
Ok, Ive searched all over for this answer, but nobody can give me a for sure answer. Why cant I put a front air dam on an RX8 with automatic transmission? The brochures and online order places say the front dam is not to be used with the trim ring and Automatic transmission? Someone got the answer?
Thanks,
Frank
Thanks,
Frank
10-19-2003, 08:55 AM
#6
Re: Front Air Dam not available for AT RX8?
Originally posted by flyboyindy
Ok, Ive searched all over for this answer, but nobody can give me a for sure answer. Why cant I put a front air dam on an RX8 with automatic transmission? The brochures and online order places say the front dam is not to be used with the trim ring and Automatic transmission? Someone got the answer?
Thanks,
Frank
Ok, Ive searched all over for this answer, but nobody can give me a for sure answer. Why cant I put a front air dam on an RX8 with automatic transmission? The brochures and online order places say the front dam is not to be used with the trim ring and Automatic transmission? Someone got the answer?
Thanks,
Frank
10-23-2003, 11:40 AM
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Re: Re: Front Air Dam not available for AT RX8?
Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
You can put the air dam with the AT. You just can't mate the air dam with an AT with the TRIM RING. My guess is that together the air dam and trim ring reduce the amount of air flow around the tranny too much.
You can put the air dam with the AT. You just can't mate the air dam with an AT with the TRIM RING. My guess is that together the air dam and trim ring reduce the amount of air flow around the tranny too much.
10-23-2003, 02:07 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Front Air Dam not available for AT RX8?
Originally posted by x-mobile
What is a trim ring?:o
What is a trim ring?:o
11-10-2003, 12:20 PM
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Got a definitive answer from Mazda only today. Looks like red_rx8_red_int was on the right track.
It has nothing to do with the grill ring. The airdam is said to divert too much air away from the Automatic Transmission power assist oil recirculation resevoir ("Whew!" ... how about aka "AT fluid resevoir" for short).
This is said to burn up the AT at higher speeds. My two Mazda maintenance techs take issue with this (especially since it didn't come through a service bulletin, just on the order sheets).
I expect that time will tell.
It has nothing to do with the grill ring. The airdam is said to divert too much air away from the Automatic Transmission power assist oil recirculation resevoir ("Whew!" ... how about aka "AT fluid resevoir" for short).
This is said to burn up the AT at higher speeds. My two Mazda maintenance techs take issue with this (especially since it didn't come through a service bulletin, just on the order sheets).
I expect that time will tell.
11-10-2003, 10:06 PM
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I too have the Appearance Package w/ the Front Air Dam on my A/T 8. It was installed in port when the car arrived. Are you saying that now that option is not being offered due to problems w/ the transmission?
I did not opt for the Grill trim ring. I have not encountered any problems yet, but the car is very new for transmission problems to creep up.
I did not opt for the Grill trim ring. I have not encountered any problems yet, but the car is very new for transmission problems to creep up.
11-12-2003, 08:08 AM
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Me too. Especially since I have one on order for my AT anyway. Mazda has said that it would NOT affect warranty at all, so wth?
The 2 dealerships that I called (Arlington, VA area) said that they WOULD install it, but they do NOT recommend it. Now what does THAT mean?
I will let you know if I encounter anything after I install it. I'd appreciate it if other remember this thread, as well.
If I get a chance, I will try pinpointing temperatures at various points along the the transmission using my college's aero temp probes. No promises, but it may reveal something before and after.
The 2 dealerships that I called (Arlington, VA area) said that they WOULD install it, but they do NOT recommend it. Now what does THAT mean?
I will let you know if I encounter anything after I install it. I'd appreciate it if other remember this thread, as well.
If I get a chance, I will try pinpointing temperatures at various points along the the transmission using my college's aero temp probes. No promises, but it may reveal something before and after.
12-12-2003, 07:01 AM
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I have an AT and ordered with the areo package. I have had 0 issues on the car. The temp on the trans was approx 5degress difference from a hard run and normal run on the highway. I think the claims of there being an inssue with the AT w/airdam are BS.
I bought mine in Fredricksburge, VA I also talked to the tech and he agreed with me that the claims are BS.
So have fun and enjoy the aero package. Also add the front splash guards it will complete the look and are easy to install.
I bought mine in Fredricksburge, VA I also talked to the tech and he agreed with me that the claims are BS.
So have fun and enjoy the aero package. Also add the front splash guards it will complete the look and are easy to install.
12-12-2003, 02:38 PM
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REPORT
I just finished my statistical measurements of the AT oil case temperatures before and after my airdam was installed. Please keep in mind that the weather change rather dramatically in the past almost three weeks, so my data was based on comparisons with ambients.
I was only able to borrow a single probe RF thermometer (the aerospace kind, not the steak on the grill kind) from Orbital Sciences Corporation. It was a standard 49 MHz single frequency type made by Texas Instruments (receiver brand says Oregon Scientific...whatever). It uses a thermistor (I believe), not a thermocouple, wired to a tiny transmit unit, powered by 2x 2025 batteries...very thin. The sensor head is embedded in a mesh circle that I had to tape to surfaces. Sampling rate is governed by the transmitter and my friend thinks that it was hardwired to 1 Hz (1 transmit per second). The receiver lists an accuracy of +/- 0.2 degrees used in a "normal operating environment." In any case, I didn't fiddle with the settings on either unit, since I didn't know enough about it. It did seem to measure correctly though (or I should say, the RX-8's ambient thermometer seemed to measure correctly to a professional thermometer ;-) ).
Now, there was not an easy place where I could adhere the damn thing (especially the box), so I did 6 different points along the transmission casing that looked like AT fluid reservoirs. I mounted the sensor with fabric tape so as not to impede airflow. I mounted the box with duct tape (ahhh...is there anything it can't do?) sort of in a "well" underneath and twist-tied the wire to take up slack. Further I took two additional temperature readings, one from the left front oil cooler (I know they have nothing to do with AT or MT) next to the fog lamp and one from inside the front rotary crest. Fog lamps were never turned on. Ironically, I taped the transmitter to the airbox for these, so if I'd remembered, I could've done an airflow temp measurement.
Not exactly scientific, but I used my daily commute points (6 stops there in the morning, 6 stops back, 12 stops in all) for each path of data gathering for overall balance.
1 set of measurements without the airdam. 1 set with. I paddle shifted the whole way (which for me is smoother, since I'm a lead-foot). I also took down the ambients from the gauge in the cockpit...errr...in the car. I computed averages, but didn't do any standard deviation (I'd have to go grab my college statistics textbook from 50 years ago...j/k...just lazy).
Spreadsheet is available if you want it. Just PM me.
CONCLUSION
I saw NO significant difference in temperatures anywhere along the tranny case at all. I can't say it plainer. The transmission did get hot, no doubt. However, there weren't any external indicators of any problems.
If somebody can sketch out exactly where the reservoir for the AT fluid is, I will measure that exact point. However, I'm pretty sure that I covered it. I'm taking my data to Mazda service (Rosenthal Mazda in Tyson's Corner, VA...highly recommend) to discuss.
One final note. The fog lamps apparently generate an inordinate amount of heat. Just for kicks, I turned them on and drove here to work yesterday. The temp was up almost 20 degrees (ambient 34 degrees, front left oil cooler vicinity 53 degrees). Did I tape too close to the light? Do you think this would affect anything with oil temps?
This concludes the scientific work done on my part. It really was cold here in Virginia, when I decided to do this. I shouldn't have procrastinated. In my defense, it did snow last Friday and Saturday!
To real engineers, this may have been somewhat shoddy work. However, I was only looking for a smoking gun and don't think I found it.
In the meantime, any thoughts?
I just finished my statistical measurements of the AT oil case temperatures before and after my airdam was installed. Please keep in mind that the weather change rather dramatically in the past almost three weeks, so my data was based on comparisons with ambients.
I was only able to borrow a single probe RF thermometer (the aerospace kind, not the steak on the grill kind) from Orbital Sciences Corporation. It was a standard 49 MHz single frequency type made by Texas Instruments (receiver brand says Oregon Scientific...whatever). It uses a thermistor (I believe), not a thermocouple, wired to a tiny transmit unit, powered by 2x 2025 batteries...very thin. The sensor head is embedded in a mesh circle that I had to tape to surfaces. Sampling rate is governed by the transmitter and my friend thinks that it was hardwired to 1 Hz (1 transmit per second). The receiver lists an accuracy of +/- 0.2 degrees used in a "normal operating environment." In any case, I didn't fiddle with the settings on either unit, since I didn't know enough about it. It did seem to measure correctly though (or I should say, the RX-8's ambient thermometer seemed to measure correctly to a professional thermometer ;-) ).
Now, there was not an easy place where I could adhere the damn thing (especially the box), so I did 6 different points along the transmission casing that looked like AT fluid reservoirs. I mounted the sensor with fabric tape so as not to impede airflow. I mounted the box with duct tape (ahhh...is there anything it can't do?) sort of in a "well" underneath and twist-tied the wire to take up slack. Further I took two additional temperature readings, one from the left front oil cooler (I know they have nothing to do with AT or MT) next to the fog lamp and one from inside the front rotary crest. Fog lamps were never turned on. Ironically, I taped the transmitter to the airbox for these, so if I'd remembered, I could've done an airflow temp measurement.
Not exactly scientific, but I used my daily commute points (6 stops there in the morning, 6 stops back, 12 stops in all) for each path of data gathering for overall balance.
1 set of measurements without the airdam. 1 set with. I paddle shifted the whole way (which for me is smoother, since I'm a lead-foot). I also took down the ambients from the gauge in the cockpit...errr...in the car. I computed averages, but didn't do any standard deviation (I'd have to go grab my college statistics textbook from 50 years ago...j/k...just lazy).
Spreadsheet is available if you want it. Just PM me.
CONCLUSION
I saw NO significant difference in temperatures anywhere along the tranny case at all. I can't say it plainer. The transmission did get hot, no doubt. However, there weren't any external indicators of any problems.
If somebody can sketch out exactly where the reservoir for the AT fluid is, I will measure that exact point. However, I'm pretty sure that I covered it. I'm taking my data to Mazda service (Rosenthal Mazda in Tyson's Corner, VA...highly recommend) to discuss.
One final note. The fog lamps apparently generate an inordinate amount of heat. Just for kicks, I turned them on and drove here to work yesterday. The temp was up almost 20 degrees (ambient 34 degrees, front left oil cooler vicinity 53 degrees). Did I tape too close to the light? Do you think this would affect anything with oil temps?
This concludes the scientific work done on my part. It really was cold here in Virginia, when I decided to do this. I shouldn't have procrastinated. In my defense, it did snow last Friday and Saturday!
To real engineers, this may have been somewhat shoddy work. However, I was only looking for a smoking gun and don't think I found it.
In the meantime, any thoughts?
12-12-2003, 04:07 PM
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CORRECTION
This is fairly minor, but in the comments about the fog lamps, it only went up 14 degrees. I accidentally read the wrong number. I also forgot to mention that the error factor increased, because I rounded to the nearest degree, based on my estimation. The numbers were changing too rapidly on the receiver. I don't know how, as I thought the sampling rate was controlled by the transmitter. I'm still waiting on an answer to that. However, my apologies about those details left out.
You're welcome flyboyindy and all. It makes me feel like a real engineer or something, doing this kind of thing.
:-)
This is fairly minor, but in the comments about the fog lamps, it only went up 14 degrees. I accidentally read the wrong number. I also forgot to mention that the error factor increased, because I rounded to the nearest degree, based on my estimation. The numbers were changing too rapidly on the receiver. I don't know how, as I thought the sampling rate was controlled by the transmitter. I'm still waiting on an answer to that. However, my apologies about those details left out.
You're welcome flyboyindy and all. It makes me feel like a real engineer or something, doing this kind of thing.
:-)
12-12-2003, 04:42 PM
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Me too. Too bad, I have to give my airdam back.
I got a defective airdam. The right side pulled away yesterday evening...the bolts, I think. Anyway, it ripped part of the plastic away.
Rosenthal doesn't stock these so I'm just gonna duct tape it in place (my poor baby!!) and wait until the replacement comes in. Luckily, my RX-8 is Titanium Grey (woot!). It should hide the tape a little at least. Errrr...
They said that there would be no charge, unless they determine that I ran into something. No chance, there's not a scratch on anything, except the failure point.
sniff, sniff...
I got a defective airdam. The right side pulled away yesterday evening...the bolts, I think. Anyway, it ripped part of the plastic away.
Rosenthal doesn't stock these so I'm just gonna duct tape it in place (my poor baby!!) and wait until the replacement comes in. Luckily, my RX-8 is Titanium Grey (woot!). It should hide the tape a little at least. Errrr...
They said that there would be no charge, unless they determine that I ran into something. No chance, there's not a scratch on anything, except the failure point.
sniff, sniff...
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