Stuck in open loop, wtf?
08-20-2013, 09:33 PM
#1
Stuck in open loop, wtf?
Okay so i've been lookint at logs, cause I have a tune problem, and i noticed I'm stuck in open loop....WTF. lol. I've searched and the only thing i see is stuck valves, ssv stuck open. Nada useful.
Front o2 sensor is brand new, less than 200 miles on it. premium Bosch. (Yes its the right part too, for a manual trans)
What else could it be?
Opinons, commense!
Thanks in advanced.
(pssst, fyi, don't chug a venom and monster back to back in less than a min....does weird things to you)
Front o2 sensor is brand new, less than 200 miles on it. premium Bosch. (Yes its the right part too, for a manual trans)
What else could it be?
Opinons, commense!
Thanks in advanced.
(pssst, fyi, don't chug a venom and monster back to back in less than a min....does weird things to you)
08-20-2013, 09:38 PM
#2
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Every condition I can think of would also trigger a CEL, as failure to enter closed loop is only achieved by seeing a problem. Most conditions would be related to a fault with closed loop, either an O2 sensor failure, something interrupting it, not plugged in, connector dirty, etc... OR the ECU can't get out of starting "warmup mode". This could be from a failed/failing coolant temp sensor, or another condition that it's not seeing set yet.
Do you have another OBD2 reader? One that can see fuel system status and system readiness monitors?
Do you have another OBD2 reader? One that can see fuel system status and system readiness monitors?
08-20-2013, 09:47 PM
#3
Every condition I can think of would also trigger a CEL, as failure to enter closed loop is only achieved by seeing a problem. Most conditions would be related to a fault with closed loop, either an O2 sensor failure, something interrupting it, not plugged in, connector dirty, etc... OR the ECU can't get out of starting "warmup mode". This could be from a failed/failing coolant temp sensor, or another condition that it's not seeing set yet.
Do you have another OBD2 reader? One that can see fuel system status and system readiness monitors?
Do you have another OBD2 reader? One that can see fuel system status and system readiness monitors?
I've been thinkin of gettin a bluetooth one and torque though but for now, no. (and i'm not even sure that can tell me all that)
imma upload a couple logs for ya real fast. Both taken today and I was warmed up.
yes by the look of everything, i know my tune is fubar, no i do not have a vac leak, ive torn everything apart and checked and looked at every line, they all check out.
datalog4 is a pull in second gear btw
and yes it did absolutely die on me.
Last edited by RonniEdwards; 08-20-2013 at 09:59 PM.
08-20-2013, 09:59 PM
#4
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A $25 bluetooth OBD2 plug and the free version of Torque can tell you. If the free version can't, the $5 full version can for sure. It's what I use all the time.
More money on the OBD2 plug can get you faster read times, longer life, etc..., peaking around $150 for the absolute best ones. You don't have to go expensive though.
It's really a tool any backyard mechanic should have
Every owner actually, in my opinion, but definitely someone that does their own work.
Alright, logs. You are reading sufficient coolant temp and it's changing, so it's not the coolant temp sensor. Nothing else in the logs stands out as a problem. Though in datalog4, at 23.27.... you are at 35mph and zero rpm, zero maf g/s but positive MAF voltage, zero load, still have an injector pulse width, AFRs went flat just prior...
What did the car do there? That's really odd. Almost like you manually shut it off, except that should have killed the Metering Oil Pump Position, MAF voltage, ignition timing, and injector pulse width all to zero as well, and it didn't.
If nothing seemed odd on your end, than maybe we are looking at an ECU fault.
More money on the OBD2 plug can get you faster read times, longer life, etc..., peaking around $150 for the absolute best ones. You don't have to go expensive though.
It's really a tool any backyard mechanic should have
Every owner actually, in my opinion, but definitely someone that does their own work.Alright, logs. You are reading sufficient coolant temp and it's changing, so it's not the coolant temp sensor. Nothing else in the logs stands out as a problem. Though in datalog4, at 23.27.... you are at 35mph and zero rpm, zero maf g/s but positive MAF voltage, zero load, still have an injector pulse width, AFRs went flat just prior...
What did the car do there? That's really odd. Almost like you manually shut it off, except that should have killed the Metering Oil Pump Position, MAF voltage, ignition timing, and injector pulse width all to zero as well, and it didn't.
If nothing seemed odd on your end, than maybe we are looking at an ECU fault.
08-20-2013, 10:07 PM
#5
Yes well at the time (since i'm used to backwoods listen and tinker, before the computer age got so advanced) I didnt know about those things till recently. When me and dad ran the shop it was all a multi thousand dollar snap on computer. something i'll have to add to my list of things to get.
it just died. sometimes (no friggin clue why) if it gets gotten down on a little it'll die after the rpms drop back down, usuall i just pop the clutch and off i go again.
at start up 99% of the time i never have problems starting. but theres a 1% time where it'll just die after starting, rpms jump up as usual, then drop down real low for a couple seconds and die. but try again and it lights back up and i'm good.
no CELs btw.
it just died. sometimes (no friggin clue why) if it gets gotten down on a little it'll die after the rpms drop back down, usuall i just pop the clutch and off i go again.
at start up 99% of the time i never have problems starting. but theres a 1% time where it'll just die after starting, rpms jump up as usual, then drop down real low for a couple seconds and die. but try again and it lights back up and i'm good.
no CELs btw.
08-20-2013, 10:11 PM
#6
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Are you on a stock tune? or is your tune modified?
If you are on a stock tune, then you need to find the problem of the periodic shut-offs. Sounds like an AFR problem, ignition or fuel momentarily cutting out, or a low compression engine.
If you are on a modified tune, does it do this on a stock tune?
If you are on a stock tune, then you need to find the problem of the periodic shut-offs. Sounds like an AFR problem, ignition or fuel momentarily cutting out, or a low compression engine.
If you are on a modified tune, does it do this on a stock tune?
08-20-2013, 10:16 PM
#7
not a stock tune. recently i've been having stft problems (-25 and stable) and lean issues. but these issues didnt start until i gutted my cat (lets not get started on the environment and the controversy around this please). i've got a thread out there somewhere about it. originally me and 9k thought vac leak. i checked every one of them, no its not that. everything hardware wise seems sound as can be. so we thought tune. but i dont see even with the tune being off how i'm stuck in open loop.
i have a theory that it might be faulty o2 sensor. maybe i can unplug it and if the car acts the same then it points to that.
but i'm running a tune that i am borrowing from 9k to keep my engine from det till i can get it tuned properly.
stock tune is hopless for me. it STAYS at 20.6 afr. not a chance.
i have a theory that it might be faulty o2 sensor. maybe i can unplug it and if the car acts the same then it points to that.
but i'm running a tune that i am borrowing from 9k to keep my engine from det till i can get it tuned properly.
stock tune is hopless for me. it STAYS at 20.6 afr. not a chance.
Last edited by RonniEdwards; 08-20-2013 at 10:21 PM.
08-20-2013, 10:23 PM
#8
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If you are running in open loop all the time now, unplugging the front O2 sensor won't have an impact, as it is only used in closed loop. The better way would be to see the voltage and voltage switching of the O2 sensor, run the mode tests, etc.. Again, Torque can do this.
It's probably something in the tune then, something unexpected, but above my head to really be able to point you to what. I'm going to move this to the tuning subforum for you, see if you can get some more relevant help from the more knowledgeable guys.
It's probably something in the tune then, something unexpected, but above my head to really be able to point you to what. I'm going to move this to the tuning subforum for you, see if you can get some more relevant help from the more knowledgeable guys.
08-20-2013, 10:25 PM
#9
If you are running in open loop all the time now, unplugging the front O2 sensor won't have an impact, as it is only used in closed loop. The better way would be to see the voltage and voltage switching of the O2 sensor, run the mode tests, etc.. Again, Torque can do this.
It's probably something in the tune then, something unexpected, but above my head to really be able to point you to what. I'm going to move this to the tuning subforum for you, see if you can get some more relevant help from the more knowledgeable guys.
It's probably something in the tune then, something unexpected, but above my head to really be able to point you to what. I'm going to move this to the tuning subforum for you, see if you can get some more relevant help from the more knowledgeable guys.
BET 10 bucks 9k pops in and says "just get the damn thing tuned by MM or Kane and be done with it"
Last edited by RonniEdwards; 08-20-2013 at 10:38 PM.
08-20-2013, 11:09 PM
#12
crazy STFT like -25 or what ever the max was. I was getting 28 miles per gallon, crazy right? It wasnt idling properly. The original rusted out kinda bad due to busted water main seal, replaced the engine a month later, but o2 sensor was eaten up, but tired it anyway. I definitely will not use non mazda o2 sensors again. I don't know what my AFR was, but I do know it was not running to peak performance. Also, I was always either in closed or open loop fault. Probably more issues that were lurking but didn't notice. It also eventually threw the bad o2 sensor code, forgot which code it was.
08-20-2013, 11:10 PM
#13
crazy STFT like -25 or what ever the max was. I was getting 28 miles per gallon, crazy right? It wasnt idling properly. The original rusted out kinda bad due to busted water main seal, replaced the engine a month later, but o2 sensor was eaten up, but tired it anyway. I definitely will not use non mazda o2 sensors again. I don't know what my AFR was, but I do know it was not running to peak performance. Also, I was always either in closed or open loop fault. Probably more issues that were lurking but didn't notice. It also eventually threw the bad o2 sensor code, forgot which code it was.
08-20-2013, 11:18 PM
#17
Sorry bud, i like to get all perspectives I can. I think maybe it was coincidence that he mentioned the sensor as it was a theory already brought up in our brain storming. I've already emailed Kane, don't worry.
It's just annoying the dog **** outta me.
But as well my signature tells you year and mods thats appropriate. thats why its there.
All the same. I appreciate your input.
Last edited by RonniEdwards; 08-20-2013 at 11:20 PM.
, Watch your language young lady.
08-21-2013, 08:35 AM
#23
08-21-2013, 08:42 AM
#24
Urban Dictionary: cotton headed ninny muggins
