Still have your air pump installed? There are a lot of emissions related items to hid beyond just this single item.

^yes I do ... I will be taking it out soon tho ... won't the PCM still throw a CEL after I disconnect the plugs (doesn't matter if I hide them or not)?

That log shows 12 AFRs in upper RPMS - what is wrong with that ?

what injectors do you have ?

Once you hid/cancel/remove, or whatever you want to call turning them off, it will not effect your tune or power. Here are the ones that relate to the air pump that I could find:

P0410 AIR system problem
P2257 AIR pump relay control circuit low
P2258 AIR pump relay control circuit high
P2259 AIR solenoid valve control circuit low
P2260 AIR solenoid valve control circuit high

^ I get the 2259 due to my air pump being gone.

I am trying to get it to like just around 13 ... I am on stock injectors ... The only think I touched so far was my MAF ... so you suggest I bump my fuel tables up a bit?

Aren't my AFR's closer to 11?

Looks like around 11.7 -11.8 to me ?

Suggest you do not touch injector scaling at all if you have stock injectors . Just get your maf scaled such that LTFT settles at +/_ 3% then work on your fueling tables to get the desired AFRs .

BTW there is a VERY easy way to scale your MAF . You don't need to get hung up on getting it perfect .

Kane's method?

My LTFT is at 5% at the moment ... I am afraid that if I scale my top further, I will dip even richer ... how do you feel about scaling the bottom mid section ... from say 140g/s to like 20 g/s

Did you change the Hysteresis also? Will you not cool down too much without changing this value also?

so i just re read kane's method and ... i failed ... i need to finish scaling my maf

Nemesis, I did not change the hysteresis .... My fans will turn off at 200 - 37 = 163

Although it is a good thing for me to do ... I am not worried because
1) My termostat should be fully closed by like 175 - 180, at this point my fans will be working redundantly as there is little if any coolant flow to the rad
2) I never sit with my engine on for more than 2 minutes (no traffic in PA) as I find the fumes pretty much unbearable (catless).

Once you get moving above 7 mph the fans are set to turn off anyway.

Thanks for pointing that out though ... This will be implemented in my next map however, as I plan on doing a bit more scaling

So this weekend I am going to do a couple more logs and install my BHR coils ... updates to come ;)

No Brettus's method :)

Don't want to confuse the issue for you so best you carry on with what you are doing .
I will say this though again - with NA tuning you don't need to be anal about maf scaling .

With LTFTs there are 3 phases

i'll call them
Idle 0-8g/s approx
off idle 8-18g/s approx
cruise 18g/s -40 approx g/s
40g/sapprox + = open loop

It's the cruise stage that determines open loop fuel trims but you should aim to get them all within +/_ 3 % . any adjustments past 40g/s approx. will have zero effect on your fuel trims .

Update:
I just made a new map that I will flash to once I install my BHR coils

Dwell Adjusted to BHR specs (x1.43)
MAF x 1.05 [3.5 g - 20g]
MAF x 1.03 [20g +]

Fan Hysteresi all set to 28 (original is 37)

CELs hidden:
P0410 AIR system problem
P2257 AIR pump relay control circuit low
P2258 AIR pump relay control circuit high
P2259 AIR solenoid valve control circuit low
P2260 AIR solenoid valve control circuit high

next mods after BHR: Catch Can, battery relocation, air pump pull

... big thanks to MM, Nemesis, Brettus, and Kane

map is attached.... datalogs to come!

So ... I just went outside to do my BHR coils and realized that I better not attempt to do them since I need my car tonight ... this video illustrates my frustration with BHR Charles fairly accurately as I was reading the instructions...

http://www.youtube.com/v/YIViI2V8jEg...&fs=1&start=26

It is probably better this way anyway since I dont want to be changing too many variables at the same time anyway ... I will instead be flashing to the same map but without the BHR adjustments

Well, I was more "asking" the question about the fan hysteresis than telling you to change it. Someone with more knowledge than me needs to verify that one.

I think your point was very valid and that's why I decided to act on it ... I am not too worried for now cause the temps around here get to like 70 at the hottest ... I'll have dedicated gauges by next summer ... right now I just use my COBB

That is just the value that takes it out of fan mode....

IE Fan ON 200F
Hysterisis - 5 means the fan turns off after 195. It's a little more complicated than that - but that is the gist.

See what I'm saying?

Yep - that makes sense. I guess you can also run too cold and change things also in looking at the maps. What is the perfect operating temp? 185F?

I cannot open that PTM file. Is ATR model year specific? I can open another forum members '04 turbo map, but I cannot open yours.

Yes, they are year specific.

I like to keep my car at 190-200F... at 203 is when I go into high fan mode.

You can only open that map because it was made on your version of ATR ;)

ha - that expains it... LOL

FAN1 is a two speed fan, correct? I have mine set:

FAN1 A 189
FAN1 A Hysteresis 37
FAN1 B 189
FAN1 A Hysteresis 37
FAN2 ECT 194
FAN1 A Hysteresis 37

Should I change my hysteresis also? I don't want the car to be too cold.

That 37 hysteresis value isnt degrees F...might be .1 degrees each`or something

The value for Metric values is 3 degrees C...makes a lot more sense that it is about 4degrees F

The fans would never shut of if it was 37 degrees...because the thermostat wouldn`t let the temp get that low

From the ATR Help PDF

Fan 1 – A Hysteresis
Table description – The amount of coolant temperature reduction (from the Fan 1 – A value) the ECU must see before it turns off Fan 1 – A, after it has been turned on by the ECU.

Doesn`t say what the value is though.....think about it..there is no way the fans would stay on till the car gets to 170ish degrees.....what is the thermostat temp ;)

Plus it`s 3 deg in the Metric scale...that makes sense :)

When in doubt, leave it stock.....(my motto)

Just lower the temps to turn them on.

Thermostat temp is 180 I believe ... pretty sure its in the 178 - 182 range if not

but you are TURBOOOOOO

I'll prolly lower them soon enough

SO here are my datalogs with the NA working map from today .... I don't think the Long Term fuel trims have settled yet ... I have completed like 3 drive cycles since flashing to the new map ... it was from a miata cruise ... it was kinda cool ... the crowd were nice, but a bit too slow for me ;)

Before you started your own tune, did you attempt the MAF calibration?

Edit: I meant to ask, what method did you use to scale the MAF...

^ I am kinda confused ... I am STILL calibrating my MAF

I am just using my LTFT for now .... once they are within +-3% (hopefully after this iteration) I am going to flatten my tables out, make sure I am in open loop and use Kane's method


Currently, I am also doing it in REALLY small increments

Otherwise, I am picking up my turbo kit this weekend (greddy turbo) and hopefully this will allow me to be confident enough to set-up a turbo base map on my own until I get get dyno tuned

For anyone reading this, I cannot emphasize how much I recommend this https://www.rx8club.com/mazdamaniac-183/rx-8-accessport-tuning-webcast-seminar-173014/page12/ ... it gave me the confidence to attempt what I am doing now

I read the MAF calibration help file in ATR, and it looks easier than I first thought. Kane has a good handle on it also. It's awesome you are attempting this. I'm running my own PTM for awhile, because I needed to tweak the dwell for my BHR coils. Waiting for MM's first iteration calibration file to arrive. Yep, I restarted an e-tune with MM while I study ATR and wait for the next webinar class. Maybe I will join you one day soon!

:p:

While this might be playing it safe it is probably preventing you from seeing the real world effects of the changes you make .

Does MM go over all the maps you need to rescale etc for FI in his seminar ?

Absolutely, MM goes over everything

.... Nemesis it will be a good day when you do. This forum seriously lacks people attempting their own tunning

If you take more than two or three broad swipes at tweaking the MAF, you are fiddling with it too much.
Remember, there are only 3 effective load cells, so once you establish the base curve, you need only move those three ranges en masse. If you are playing with individual values or small groups of values, you are doing it wrong (for several reasons).

interesting . Sounds like I'm doing the same thing you do . I think a few people on here have led others to believe it is a complicated thing to do when it really isn't .

It just takes a careful understanding of where the break-points are and what a given amount of correction means to the resultant CL. I almost always get the MAF right on the first calibration update. It should only take one good datalog.

Ganbatte, Stinky. Ganbatte!!

bow chicka bow wow ... this is gonna get interesting


I am gonna take a break from tunning while I get these three books, gauges, and all the parts needed to make this kit reliable ....

since as MM said ... I am having some misunderstandings

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Turboch...6227403&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Managem...d_bxgy_b_img_c

http://www.amazon.com/Turbo-Real-Wor...d_bxgy_b_img_b


my goal with the turbo is a reliable 240 - 250 whp @ like 5 psi .... for now

Don't bother with those (though the Warner book is nice, if for no other reason than I am mention in it by name).
Get these:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

^ Thanks. Been looking for some good reading material.

very modest goals - makes a lot of sense to do it this way ;)

Anyway ... I am back guys. I have realized that I am getting a bit over my head with the turbo build. Therefore, I am focusing on prepping the car for turbo 1st. This includes cleaning and flowtesting injectors, cleaning SSV, spark plugs, BHR (just installed), oil pan, catch can and gauges.

Turbo install will be mid Feb.

For now, while my car is NA, I am going to practice getting my MAF calibrated as that will be the first thing I will need to do that when I am FI, but I will not have any room for silly mistakes in FI...

So here be go .... I am starting with Cruise Calibration. MAF x 1.1 (10%) and .25 - .69 load in gears 3 - 6 are set to 13.5 afr. OL is set to kick in at 3k rpm

Attached is the map. Let me know if you need me to provide it in a form other than AccessTuner.


FOR the newbs ... I am talking about the flat area in the screenshot

The question is how long can one stick to those self imposed limits, especially when a boost controller makes it so easy... :)

until one gets a DD

A wise path indeed

Why did you bump the MAF 1.1?

Also, if you are NA looking for tuning heads up, work on injector scales. Since your maf will be off again when you change housings. They both work together so it is a bit of a catch 22.

I am sending my injectors out to get cleaned and flow tested when I get my UIM off ... so I will know what they are flowing and not need to rescale them? Can I rely on that?

I forgot to mention that I completely restarted from stock MAF as I had made too many changes with one on top of another that I did not feel like digging through. My LTFT were 10 - 12% across the board on stock tune, so I scaled up 10% from stock

As for scaling my MAF and injectors at the same time, I am afraid of chasing my tail too much. Furthermore, over 66k miles, my injectors ALONE can account for 10% deviation as they can be 10% dirty right?

I feel that sending out injectors for cleaning and flow testing is the best way to get them scaled.... I am also toying with the idea of upgrading to blue A/T injectors for P2 and tossing the red ones (ie moving the yellow to the primary location)....

http://www.discountfuelsystems.com/s...ry,universal:0)

question: Can I rely on the refurbished injectors to flow what they should OR should I ideally get those flow tested AS WELL?

I want to go for refurbed cause I don't think the price of new vs refurbed justifies new ... or does it? What's your opinion?

Tell me if I am being perfectionist ... I know that you can never have an IDEAL tune, but I want to get as close to ideal as possible by minimizing the variables

I am definitely looking for heads up and I will be NA until mid Feb ... thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it. Kane if you are ever on the East Coast, I owe you a case of beer! Also, thanks for recently adding me on FB (Dre Z)

Have run this way for a year now - has worked very well despite advice to the contrary .

What is the advice to the contrary?

Also, what about the diaphragm set-up of the stock fueling system, at what power, or fuel flow level would a return system be required? I guess, the answer is above what has been achieved on the Renesis?

What would you say the comfortable power limit of the stock injectors is?

What about the yellow, yellow, blue set-up? When (power wise, not reliability wise) I run into fuel pump issues and need to upgrade?

BHR website: " fundamental issue that the OE pump is designed to just barely fulfill the fueling requirements for 250 – 300 HP and probably only does so for a short period of time. Additionally, the OE siphon system will only continue to work as long as the pump is surpassing the fuel demands of the motor. As soon as its output is below demand, the siphon will stop working again. If you are racing and in a high-G left hand turn while accelerating in a high-output RX-8, you will almost immediately starve the pump.<br />
The 09+ assembly addresses some of the siphon issues, but is still designed to provide about 115 lph. A 350 HP+ Renesis will need closer to 200 lph"

I know this has been covered, but it's late.....

MM advised that it doesn't work due to incorrect ratio between P1 and Secs but for me it has worked fine :dunno:

Don't know , but the stock setup has worked for me to 350whp .

300whp is not really "comfortable" but certainly do-able .

I ran out of fuel at 350whp with that setup so comfortable will be around 300-310 .


It's not so much the capacity of the pump that is the issue it's the "spare capacity" . The stock pump is deficient in certain situations but fine for a DD street car . I changed mine mainly due to blowing an engine at the track on 1/8th tank on a long sweeper. Read MMs first post on the Fuel pump upgrade thread .

It isn't that it "doesn't work". It just doesn't work correctly.
You can do all kinds of chicanery to get it to "work", but it is still mucking about.