Semi-Auto MAF Scaling with excel! copy and paste!
06-25-2013, 02:05 PM
#29
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I did 4 tunes with it and got everything up to 4th gear WOT down to less the 7% error (*much less in for most of the scale*), I'm working on adding in some more pages now that will show your average AFR VS LOAD for each of the 3 main fuel tables. The goal there is to enter in your goals for AFR and it will tell you what you need to put in your fuel tables to achieve them... I'm going to test this a little first as I fear for the forum members cars doing the exploding thing if I don't
06-25-2013, 02:09 PM
#30
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it can be relatively hard to get rid of trims completely but as long as your last iteration with the MAF Calibration worksheet was telling you to remove fuel (*according to your trims*) then that means your car is running slightly rich! which is actually a good thing if your trying to achieve the nice 13-13.5 AFR's at WOT. I will keep expanding on this and see how much crap I can shove into it
06-25-2013, 07:50 PM
#33
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Ok, I will have to find open office to test that
For now I need some helpful pointers... this is the stock table for A/F Gears
right at the right side and in between both cirlces (81-88 load and 6000 rpm) is the unmistakable kick in the pants the butt dyno loves. but I'm starting to think this could be a bad thing, seems like if I leaned the cells above and below those it would be more gradual, right now it feels like there is a dip in power before and after.
The info I'm looking for, do those stupid rich points actually have a purpose?
Or should I lean them out to .91 and be done with it...
For now I need some helpful pointers... this is the stock table for A/F Gears
right at the right side and in between both cirlces (81-88 load and 6000 rpm) is the unmistakable kick in the pants the butt dyno loves. but I'm starting to think this could be a bad thing, seems like if I leaned the cells above and below those it would be more gradual, right now it feels like there is a dip in power before and after.
The info I'm looking for, do those stupid rich points actually have a purpose?
Or should I lean them out to .91 and be done with it...
06-25-2013, 08:44 PM
#35
There is room for some smoothing and leaning out, especially on a correctly scaled maf.
However if you remove those rich spots you'll most likely get pretty bad Lean spikes when the SSV opens then again when the APV opens and again when the VDI open under WOT without adjusting the VE table.
The dip in power you feel is likely caused by the change in the air column density and speed when the various valves open.
Just my 2c
However if you remove those rich spots you'll most likely get pretty bad Lean spikes when the SSV opens then again when the APV opens and again when the VDI open under WOT without adjusting the VE table.
The dip in power you feel is likely caused by the change in the air column density and speed when the various valves open.
Just my 2c
Last edited by wcs; 06-25-2013 at 08:51 PM.
06-28-2013, 09:29 AM
#37
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Cutting lots of useless crap now!
OK! So changes being made for the 3rd version...
This one might take a week or 2, because I want to test it to make sure I'm not crazy...\
Or causing peoples cars to explode!
-Going strictly off of Fuel Trims for MAF Correction now (*You can say told you so*)
-Creating 7 new pages 2 for each gear set, one for open loop and one for closed...
-those 6 pages will have the fuel table as it would appear with your actual AFR readings,
-hit count per cell (*to help decide which ones are usefull
-Fuel table filled with Mass airflow readings to help identify exactly when valves are opening
and whatnot
-and a blank table you can fill in with your desired AFR's
-The 7th page will give you a corrected Fuel table for each gear set based on the difference between actual AFRs and the table AFRs, the desired AFR table you filled in gets multiplied by the difference...
OK! So changes being made for the 3rd version...
This one might take a week or 2, because I want to test it to make sure I'm not crazy...\
Or causing peoples cars to explode!
-Going strictly off of Fuel Trims for MAF Correction now (*You can say told you so*)
-Creating 7 new pages 2 for each gear set, one for open loop and one for closed...
-those 6 pages will have the fuel table as it would appear with your actual AFR readings,
-hit count per cell (*to help decide which ones are usefull
-Fuel table filled with Mass airflow readings to help identify exactly when valves are opening
and whatnot
-and a blank table you can fill in with your desired AFR's
-The 7th page will give you a corrected Fuel table for each gear set based on the difference between actual AFRs and the table AFRs, the desired AFR table you filled in gets multiplied by the difference...
Last edited by Brandonien; 06-28-2013 at 09:38 AM.
06-28-2013, 04:52 PM
#39
EDIT: WORKING ON VERSION 3! Adding lots of useful stuff to help with getting desired AFRs!
EDIT: I'VE POSTED VERSION 2 WITH IMPERIAL SUPPORT ON POST #25!
Ok so for this to work you must have an Access Port and some basic excel skills (*copy paste*)
I've put some before and after pictures of the results of a single tune
The green row shows the percent that it needs to be changed so smaller numbers is better
I figure 3-4 tunes with a decent chunk of data will get you down to that 1-2% error zone..
I also attached a zip file with the blank workbook for you guys and one that has some data from my logs as an example (*the data in the filled in workbook is from pic 2, however I couldn't upload the whole 29MB file so I had to remove some of the data, the general trend is almost the exact same though*)
A couple of notes to start:
1. This is for NA only... if you blow up your FI car it's your own fault
2. If you blow up your NA car it's also your fault (*YOU'VE BEEN WARNED*)
3. Try to look through my workbook and understand it, if you don't care about your car enough to see what your using to tune it thats your problem.
4. Read the comments and opinions of the forum members, I'm sure their feedback will be usefull.
Set your AP to log the following:
-Coolant
-Equivalent Ratio
-RPM
-Calculated Load
-Long Term Fuel Trim
-Mass Airflow
-MAF Voltage
-Short Term Fuel Trim
-Throttle Position
-Vehicle Speed
Step 1:
Open the MAF Calibration blank workbook
Now open your Datalog(s), Select everything from B2 to J(end of sheet)
Essentially everything EXCEPT the time column and Headers
Press Ctrl+C to copy it and switch back to the blank MAF Calibration sheet
Select cell A2 and press Ctrl+V to paste your data
Repeat this process for all of your applicable datalogs (Make sure you paste it below the previous data)
Step 2:
Select a single row of cells below the red headers and press Ctrl+C
Select the first blank cell in the first red column
Scroll to the bottom of the page hold SHIFT and click the final cell in the Q column
Press Ctrl+V
Step 3:
Your Computator works its magical math **** that I wrote the formulas for
Step 4:
Click the Sheet1 tab at the bottom of the screen
(*LOOK*) at the orange row, select the values which are valid and copy and paste them to your MAF Calibration Table in Access Tuner Race
-Some values in the extreme high end and low end may not be valid as they are hard to reach, so the odd datapoint you get is more then likely a fluke and not enough to be accurate, you will see where it stops being reliable, I promise...
Step 5:
This will take 3-4 repetitions to get a very accurate scale.
-Each time you start a new blank calibration workbook ensure you copy your adjusted MAF Calibration scale FROM ATR back to Sheet1, row 2 and never reuse old datalogs from before your ATR adjustment.
-If you don't change Sheet 1 Row 2 to reflect what your CURRENT ATR maf calibration table says the difference row (*row 3*) below it will be incorrect and then the adjusted row will be off as well...
EDIT: The adjusted G/SEC line is the average of both the difference between actual and target AFR (*according to available tables*) and the difference in G/SEC based on fuel trims
EDIT: I'VE POSTED VERSION 2 WITH IMPERIAL SUPPORT ON POST #25!
Ok so for this to work you must have an Access Port and some basic excel skills (*copy paste*)
I've put some before and after pictures of the results of a single tune
The green row shows the percent that it needs to be changed so smaller numbers is better
I figure 3-4 tunes with a decent chunk of data will get you down to that 1-2% error zone..
I also attached a zip file with the blank workbook for you guys and one that has some data from my logs as an example (*the data in the filled in workbook is from pic 2, however I couldn't upload the whole 29MB file so I had to remove some of the data, the general trend is almost the exact same though*)
A couple of notes to start:
1. This is for NA only... if you blow up your FI car it's your own fault
2. If you blow up your NA car it's also your fault (*YOU'VE BEEN WARNED*)
3. Try to look through my workbook and understand it, if you don't care about your car enough to see what your using to tune it thats your problem.
4. Read the comments and opinions of the forum members, I'm sure their feedback will be usefull.
Set your AP to log the following:
-Coolant
-Equivalent Ratio
-RPM
-Calculated Load
-Long Term Fuel Trim
-Mass Airflow
-MAF Voltage
-Short Term Fuel Trim
-Throttle Position
-Vehicle Speed
Step 1:
Open the MAF Calibration blank workbook
Now open your Datalog(s), Select everything from B2 to J(end of sheet)
Essentially everything EXCEPT the time column and Headers
Press Ctrl+C to copy it and switch back to the blank MAF Calibration sheet
Select cell A2 and press Ctrl+V to paste your data
Repeat this process for all of your applicable datalogs (Make sure you paste it below the previous data)
Step 2:
Select a single row of cells below the red headers and press Ctrl+C
Select the first blank cell in the first red column
Scroll to the bottom of the page hold SHIFT and click the final cell in the Q column
Press Ctrl+V
Step 3:
Your Computator works its magical math **** that I wrote the formulas for
Step 4:
Click the Sheet1 tab at the bottom of the screen
(*LOOK*) at the orange row, select the values which are valid and copy and paste them to your MAF Calibration Table in Access Tuner Race
-Some values in the extreme high end and low end may not be valid as they are hard to reach, so the odd datapoint you get is more then likely a fluke and not enough to be accurate, you will see where it stops being reliable, I promise...
Step 5:
This will take 3-4 repetitions to get a very accurate scale.
-Each time you start a new blank calibration workbook ensure you copy your adjusted MAF Calibration scale FROM ATR back to Sheet1, row 2 and never reuse old datalogs from before your ATR adjustment.
-If you don't change Sheet 1 Row 2 to reflect what your CURRENT ATR maf calibration table says the difference row (*row 3*) below it will be incorrect and then the adjusted row will be off as well...
EDIT: The adjusted G/SEC line is the average of both the difference between actual and target AFR (*according to available tables*) and the difference in G/SEC based on fuel trims
I was going over the instruction on copying the Data log info into the workbook on the Datalog37 tab. and on this instruction im a little confused..
Step 1:
Open the MAF Calibration blank workbook
Now open your Datalog(s), Select everything from B2 to J(end of sheet)
Essentially everything EXCEPT the time column and Headers
Press Ctrl+C to copy it and switch back to the blank MAF Calibration sheet
Select cell A2 and press Ctrl+V to paste your data
Repeat this process for all of your applicable datalogs (Make sure you paste it below the previous data)
It states to copy and paste the data log data into the maf calibration sheet.. (im assuming datalog37 sheet on A2.) I do this and it populates and i copy the red formulas for Columns K-Q etc to the end of the data. However I see the end of the instruction here says Repeat this process for all of your applicable datalogs (make sure you paste it below the previous data)????However, the data Sheet1 pulls from is only enough room for the Maf voltage (row1-row48.) So when i look at my sheet1 tab. I only have 1-3 adjustments done for my Maf curve?? what am I missing.. after I copy all applicable datalogs below the previous data, how is that accounted for in the MAF scale for Shee1?
One more question.. DO I need to convert my Coolent temps to C. and My Vehicle Speeds to K/ph??? I did that on the side and redirected the Gear formulas to the converted column for speed in K/ph..
06-28-2013, 04:54 PM
#40
Cutting lots of useless crap now!
OK! So changes being made for the 3rd version...
This one might take a week or 2, because I want to test it to make sure I'm not crazy...\
Or causing peoples cars to explode!
-Going strictly off of Fuel Trims for MAF Correction now (*You can say told you so*)
-Creating 7 new pages 2 for each gear set, one for open loop and one for closed...
-those 6 pages will have the fuel table as it would appear with your actual AFR readings,
-hit count per cell (*to help decide which ones are usefull
-Fuel table filled with Mass airflow readings to help identify exactly when valves are opening
and whatnot
-and a blank table you can fill in with your desired AFR's
-The 7th page will give you a corrected Fuel table for each gear set based on the difference between actual AFRs and the table AFRs, the desired AFR table you filled in gets multiplied by the difference...
OK! So changes being made for the 3rd version...
This one might take a week or 2, because I want to test it to make sure I'm not crazy...\
Or causing peoples cars to explode!
-Going strictly off of Fuel Trims for MAF Correction now (*You can say told you so*)
-Creating 7 new pages 2 for each gear set, one for open loop and one for closed...
-those 6 pages will have the fuel table as it would appear with your actual AFR readings,
-hit count per cell (*to help decide which ones are usefull
-Fuel table filled with Mass airflow readings to help identify exactly when valves are opening
and whatnot
-and a blank table you can fill in with your desired AFR's
-The 7th page will give you a corrected Fuel table for each gear set based on the difference between actual AFRs and the table AFRs, the desired AFR table you filled in gets multiplied by the difference...
*** this is awesome!!!****
06-28-2013, 07:24 PM
#41
I'm also not sure how the VE table is used to set fuel when using a MAF reading though. Normally this would be use with a MAP sensor, or might be used to calculate MAP
06-28-2013, 10:50 PM
#42
Are you saying there shouldn't be a VE table because it's a Maf setup?
The VE of the engine changes through the rpm range on it's own rite, not in the least to mention the intake changing will impact the VE.
I don't know, maybe I'm totally off base (wouldn't be the first time) but I've used the VE table to help/eliminate the spikes caused by the various valves opening to where my fuel tables are almost flat now in those areas.
(shields up/flame suit engaged)
Right or wrong it seems to be working for me.
Aren't you trying to tune your car now with that crzy MazdaEdit thing?
Are you boosted yet or still NA?
I don't want to hijack the thread but I'll post my VE table if your curious.
Last edited by wcs; 06-29-2013 at 11:16 AM.
06-29-2013, 09:07 AM
#43
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I posted a semi filled in workbook as an example, that will give you an idea of how to set it up.
I just have the coolant temp because I really only log anything above 80C It's not used in any formulas
and I made a version for imperial and metric, if you read the first post It says I posted them on post 25...
and yes I'm interested in seeing you ve table thanks
I just have the coolant temp because I really only log anything above 80C It's not used in any formulas
and I made a version for imperial and metric, if you read the first post It says I posted them on post 25...
and yes I'm interested in seeing you ve table thanks
06-29-2013, 10:33 AM
#44
Wcs, thanks for the info. Yes I'm using mazdaedit on an s2. N. A. I would be interested to see your VE table as well I understand what a VE table is, I just don't understand how it is used to calculate fuel when using maf readings.
06-29-2013, 12:02 PM
#46
Ok ... so on the topic of how VE is used. Let's just start with this, it may or may not answer your questions. (but it's a starting point)
This is my VE map --- remember I'm boosted and even if you are boosted (this directed at any noob that is half reading the thread) DON'T USE THIS VE MAP its specifically tuned to my setup. ( I know you guys know this .. but I can just see the newbies coming in here ...)
This is my current Air/Fuel Table for 3-4 Gear
06-29-2013, 01:55 PM
#47
Yep, same concept as what I am doing. I'm just upping the game by making it a database instead of just an excel file. THat way you can get historical information and also account for all those other variables like RPM, VE, etc.
The VE table is a modifier table. Remember, fixed displacement variable MASS engine. So load is never really load - it's load over possible output based on the mass capability of that engine at that moment in time.
The VE table is a modifier table. Remember, fixed displacement variable MASS engine. So load is never really load - it's load over possible output based on the mass capability of that engine at that moment in time.
06-30-2013, 11:48 AM
#50
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One last thing I need to know before I can post version 3, there are only 2 closed loop A/F target tables. I need to know which gears these are for.
Also I added a VE table, I'm fairly confident now that the VE table can be used to negate the effects of the various valves opening. The effects they have can be seen in the same places in all gears which is why this table is perfect for dealing with it!
Also I added a VE table, I'm fairly confident now that the VE table can be used to negate the effects of the various valves opening. The effects they have can be seen in the same places in all gears which is why this table is perfect for dealing with it!
