knackerman

Hi

I'm just checking out various tuning shops and I found one that claim that they can increase a RX-8 from

231 hp -> 250 HP
and
211 Nm torque -> 255 Nm torque

Trough something they refer to as "Serial programming".

http://vehicle.fmstuning.no/public.a...&Product=10111

I was just wondering, if this feasible?

How much "umpf" can you really squeeze out of a stock RX-8, without putting a turbo on it...?

I'm missing a tiny bit more torque and hp in my 8, other than that, it's a wonderful car. =)

Regards

K

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Flame Suit On ...


search the forum man, this has been beaten to death, revived from the dead, beaten some more, revived, incinerated, cremated, and buried

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I will go easy on you due to the apparent language barrier and it is likely difficult for you to search. The most you will get with off the shelve bolts on parts (Racing beat header, midpipe, catback, and REvi intake for example) and Cobb Tuning is about 220HP to the wheels.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

Bullshit!!!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

What is?

knackerman

Hmm, I don't know why I was coming off as rude or with a poor understanding of english (although it's not my native tongue ), but I actually did try the search function, but it was very hard to find anything truly comprehensible (many discussions about this tuning method and that tuning method, but results seem to vary a lot so..).

I didn't mean to come off as a forum troll either, hope I didn't, but I wanted to get to the core question (and the link) as quickly as possible, I never meant to be rude or anything.

Now, I am not sure about the figures on that site (they take about 600-800 bucks for the tuning job) and I have also been asking around in a local RX-8 forum (where they say that this is probably not feasible without major modifications).

I know that rx8club is the main hub for knowledge, so I wanted to double check, before I throw away good money on something that may be useless.

(sorry about the typo in the topic header, I wrote the question before I had to run home from work, so it was posted in a bit of a hurry )

They supposedly run the car on a dyno to test it while tuning, so I suppose I can try and get some kind of guarantee if the figures aren't up to par ^^

220HP at the wheels, that's like a 30 HP increase from stock?
- How much increase would you guess that you can get in the torque department with the setup you mentioned?

Thank you for your answer so far. =)

Regards

K

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

From the looks of it, yes, it might be feasible. A 250hp, if rated at the crank, is within the range of what you can get to NA.

However, if you want to go the tuning route, I would highly highly recommend getting a COBB AccessPORT from MazdaManiac (member here, site is MazdaManiac.com). For $600 USD you get the device itself, the automatic benefits that it provides (lower radiator trigger temps, increased oil injection, etc...) and 6 months of calibration tuning that will be 99.5%+ of the way to what a dyno can get you. He really is good at doing it, even remotely.

It's been proven over and over and over again, which by itself is superior to having a shop that you don't know about doing it, and potentially wreck your 8's engine and/or ECU.

Spin9k

^ (how can anyone without removing the engine prove giving you xxx crank HP? ans: they can't and any estimate is just that) if they ***actually*** could somehow "find" 30hp in the engine for $600 then they should have rotorheads from all over beating down their door/there would be a line of cars down the street...talk about a steal...peps since day one 7.5 yrs ago have spend $1000s and get a mere fraction of that.

caveat emptor

ps; not to mention if they get anywhere near that number, they will be frying you CAT within miles of leaving the tune!!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Spin, I think you are crossing some references here. The shop he linked only listed going from 231 to 250, a 19hp increase. And since they are using 231hp, it means crank, not wheel, so 19hp before drivetrain losses. An 8% increase. An 8% increase over 190whp is 205.

Not likely from straight tuning, but it is possible.

The +30whp reference is from 9krpms reference that 220whp is the most you can expect NA, and he specifically said that it isn't all from tuning.

terch1

iTrader: (2)

The foreign link the OP posted claiming that the RX8 could show a significant increase in HP from ther tuning services.

DarkBrew

I know of an NA RX-8 pulling in the 205+ range so it is possible... Just really expensive HP!

knackerman

RIWWP:
Thanks, yes that just about what I was told on the local forum as well, the COBB access port, probably a good intake replacement and also some exhaust modifications as well. (and new coils and spark plugs probably)

Spink9K:
Indeed, well, I may be a bit confused about the early reports, claiming the RX-8 actually had 250 hp, but was downgraded to 231 to meet emission standards...or something...early reports, me being a noob etc makes me a easy target for a possible software "unlock" feature on the RX-8 to use it's fullest potential.

I bought my RX-8 in July, and I don't know a lot about cars (and even less about rotary engines), so my questions may seem unbelievable stupid.
- But I assure you, I am a computer engineer and not a retard, hehe

I'm not going to risk ruining my car in any way (bought used, it costed about $48 000 with about 48 000 miles on it ...yes, I live in a country where cars are indeed expensive), so I am trying to research the safest way possible to speed the car up a little. =)

Thank's all for the informative replies so far, I don't know if I am up to the task with the COBB access port just yet, but I'm going to spend the rest of the winter searching for information and experiences with that on this forum

Regards

K

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

As I don't know Norwegian, I can't follow the site. But, it seems they spec a K&N panel filter in the service.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Ah okay. Yes.


Yeah Jedi is close to 220 I believe and teamRX8 hit 224WHP I believe with his custom header and exhaust setup and I'm not sure on the tune he was running, if any at all.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The engine never changed from one year to the next for the 2004-2008 range. 2009 it changed in oil and cooling methods, but not power.

It was rated at 250, but it was simply rated too high. It was downgraded over the years to 248, 242, 238, 235, 232, 231, 228. Of course, those are also across different countries with different rating standards as well. Same engine, same ECU the entire time. Just changes in ratings.


You only have 2 options for "easy" power increases. 1 is tuning, and the only safe method at this point is through the COBB AP. 2 is removing the naturally restrictive catalytic converter, and replacing it with a straight pipe or midpipe. The cheaper midpipes and straight pipes get REALLY LOUD and REALLY RASPY. The more expensive midpipes last longer before becoming the same way. The only pipe that doesn't become loud or raspy is the BHR midpipe, and I really recommend it. Fantastic design and workmanship, nothing to fail like the other pipes.

Beyond that, you are going to be dumping lots of money for not much gain. Intakes do nothing, we already have a top notch one. Alot of intakes cause you to lose power. Cat-back exhaust will only do something if the rest of the exhaust in front of it is also upgraded. Power gains are possible from the exhaust, but you have to go to a well designed header to a true 3inch collector, and stay 3 inch the entire way back, no choke points. An engine rebuild with custom seal clearances and mild polishing gains you a few HP. An ignition upgrade to remove weak points and provide a stable spark.

All of that will get you roughly 210-220whp.

And that's about it until you go forced induction to the tune of $10,000USD or more.

Fully funded race teams are hard pressed to break 230whp with $100,000+ into the car.

bse50

Don't trust them K, those gains are unrealistic considering what they offer.
Owning cars in norway is pretty expensive and I think that you could save that money for something that will offer better results without the risk of compromising your engine with a bad tune.

I would go for a midpipe with a sports catalyzer welded on it plus some maintenance items like fresh (or better yet upgraded) coils and plugs. Also make sure that you're running the latest pcm flash, many european dealers never updated the pcms and engines still fail because of that (low oil injection etc).

I hope this helps your new forum search

G

knackerman

Yes indeed
It says Sports air filter K&N 33-2284

I have a Simota air filter on it currently, along with some really fat exhaust outlets, but that was bought and mounted by the previous owner, so I don't know much about it.
(Sounds totally sick when revving the car in a tunnel though )

Thanks RIWWP and bse50 for more good information on what to look for and read about (being new and doing a search often overwhelms you with info, so it's hard to make sense of it all) =)

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If you are anywhere near a sandy environment, you may wish to consider switching back to the OEM air filter. Race teams only showed a 1hp gain to the K+N filter, but Speedsource kept losing engines because it was letting sand get through the filter and into the engine.

They went back to the OEM air filter and no more problems.


Edit:
Not telling you that you will lose your engine with the K+N. I am just saying that the K+N does not do quite as good of a job filtering as the OEM, and you have to decide if the 1hp is worth the risk, or not. Some people think it is, others do not. Your choice.

Spin9k

RIWWP yea I prop mixed some number there, my bad.

knacherman - i see you are getting the idea about power mods from all the good posts here. My bottom line to you is this....I realize 'hope springs eternal' and esp. for a new owner - as far as possible ways to get power from the RENESIS, but unfortunately, short of FI or tuning on the edge with no cat and a midpipe / other engine in/out mods as peps have described --- for all intents and purposes enjoying what you've got may be the best option.

As a computer guy you can realize the concept as applied to PCs. Take some 2.66GHz CPU compared to a similar 3.0GHz CPU. (And no TurboBoost capability like in an I7 CPU lol). Sure there is a difference, but is it really that important? and esp. for the money spent how much do you really gain?

The RX-8 is the same. Point of diminising returns hit early and hard from stock HP point. Cobb et all /no CAT will likely get you a bit better midrange (5-8K rpm) but absolute HP gains are relatively minor. Is it worth the $$/work? That's a call only you and your wallet can make...

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

270+ at the crank on a stock block (unported)

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

190whp / 238 crank hp = 79.83%, or 20.17% drivetrain loss

270 crank hp * 79.83% = 215whp.


Still within the realm of possibility.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The losses are not that high


.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, you probably are better than that point, since you posted 222whp at one point if i remember right?


But that's the math off a healthy stock 8.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

No that's just theoretical BS

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ok.

I'll accept that for a moment.

Since the math itself isn't the problem, then one or both of the two number is.

190whp on a healthy stock 8 has been seen multiple times.

So that means that you believe that the stock motor puts out less than 238 crank hp?

(note, I'm just using 238 as the middle ground in all of their re-ratings)