Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

I deal with customers who are unruly and obnoxious ALL the time. They are clients who have millions of dollars invested with me and is it disrupting to my day to have to "deal with them" YES. Is it a necessary evil to what I do, YES. Closing a sale is only the beginning. Informing your customers, listening to their questions and needs, is even more important if you want customer loyalty, repeat business, and referrals.
This is no different then what Fluid Motorsports is going through now. Some customers in his 'store' are wandering aimlessly down the aisles looking for things to buy and others are walking in with questions in mind before they break out the VISA card to buy something.


As for moving this to the lounge, I think that would be a shame. Since when did healthy discussion on a forum become a bad thing?

dillsrotary

Everyone is acting this guy and he didn't even do anything! Anyone loss money?! Anyone have an engine explode on them?! The product doesn't even 'exist' yet.

I swear this place is full of middle school kids.

bse50

Would you wait for the first customer to be unsatisfied? would like to be that first customer? Asking who we're going to trust is legit in my opinion, especially because we're not asking him to inflate our tyres but we're putting thousand of dollars in his hands.
Why should the fist customer blindly trust the tuner? saying who he is could really help them to decide where go, especially when other tuners do that for less while buying a new unit.

This is not midschool chat, is a clear request of some informations that will eventually boost his sales if given properly.

dillsrotary

The name doesn't matter, and obviously it isn't going to be a tuner 101 grad. This forum (well certain members) have continiously looked for whatever imperfection whatsoever with Fluid (and every other freakin forum vendor), if they aren't completely flawless (which is impossible) the pinchforks and torches arise and the burning begins.

The name has nothing to do with it, people are just using it as an excuse. If you do not want to trust him with your tune then go somewhere else, no one is forcing you.

This is the same cycle repeating over again and I am not the only person here who is utterly sick of it.

bse50

What if i were undecided between 2 or more options? wouldn't i want to at least ask details?
Brice went from being a common user to a vendor, he should follow the customer's questions and advices so to improve his service.
Here, in fact, we're not talking about selling a sway bar or an exhaust. Anybody can do it. He's offering a service that needs to be defined and he could really find new customers by being a bit more specific.
This thread is a serious help for him if it stays civil and if he shows to be well aware of what this service will be.

dillsrotary

There is a difference between asking details, and lowering the flood gates.

(not intended towards you bse50)

bse50

I agree on that and i've been harsh in the past too towards him.
The fact is that any new vendor should plant solid roots and are threads like this that could really show how deep the roots are.
Now i will shut up untill i see fluid posting something here because all we're doing at this point is speculation.
Once we have some questions answered we will be able to ask something more or go straight to his shop

Derex'8

iTrader: (4)

Thank you!!!

This is ridicilous. Again as Brice stated himself. The original & only motive for the post in his own vendor section was to "GAUGE INTEREST" on a particular service. Nothing has been set in stone as of yet because everything is still in preliminary stages. He then reassured that when everything is "STRUCTURED, APPROVED, & SEALED", he will then proceed to release out details. Sounds like the basic of a good business to me.

If I was him I wouldn't have even bother saying anything until all was official. As this always happens on this forum. a Pioneer comes along w/good intentions of raising the bar on the 8 and here comes the Drones & angry mob. Prime examples; Esmeril (ignition upgrade & breaking 400whp) & SFR(First release of their kit).

Red Devil

Bah...how dare you attempt to bring common sense into this discussion.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

It's actually already announced and available. See: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=168236

Derex'8

iTrader: (4)

oh....Well in that case why doesn't someone(specifically those inquisitive individuals who are in such disbelief) just call him and inquire about the tuning service.

Still though, as he stated he will soon post e-info on the service.

RK

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure Brice will post more details once he has them. If he doesn't then nobody will buy from him.

It's not like there's a giant community of Cobb AP owners on this site who don't have tunes. There's like 4 of us.

zoom44

i just mean the debate over the "hiding stuff from us" issue versus a thread that actually has info about the tuning. just separating the 2 topics into 2 threads

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

This is not a comprehensive list.
It only applies to those dealers that take an active part in soliciting for business through Cobb.
For instance, I am not listed in their Arizona dealer listing, even though I am responsible for nearly 95% of Cobb's RX-8 sales (Maybe more - there are some serial numbers that are unaccounted for).

I know ALL of the people in Florida that have a Cobb AccessTUNER HASP key.
Of course, Bryce could be using ANYBODY that has a HASP to do his tuning, even if they are not in FL.

That said, the first calibration that goes out Fluid's door will give up all the info you want to know, since the vendor code will be embedded in the file.

Nope. The MM base calibrations are totally safe for operating the car, even FI.
In fact, about 1/3 of the time, the base calibration ends up being within 5% of the final tune with regards to fueling.

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

Just out of curiosity, how far away do the base calibrations end up being on the opposite side of the spectrum (the worst 1/3 of the time), and just on average?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

On "average", they are usually too rich under load (10:1) and too rich at cruise (12.5:1)
The "worst" case scenario has been a mixed bag of cars that won't idle satisfactorily (bad MAF calibration caused by a custom or non-standard intake), run so rich that they misfire (usually an injector calibration issue or MAF issues) or occasionally are too lean in boost (above 12.3:1).
In the latter case, there is already a caveat in the instructions about going into boost on the v4.0.0 calibration.
You will only grenade your car if you are an idiot.

Basically, if you follow the directions exactly and have a proper MAF setup, the base calibration is going to produce a pretty stable and totally safe vehicle.
The base calibrations have come a long way in the last few months.

HeavyMetal699

Ahh, that's right. I forgot you have 2 seperate base tunes. One for NA and one for FI.

I haven't followed the accessport in some time as I'm not ready to purchase. Although I could use one right now for diagnostic purposes.

zoom44

felt the need to say this again on the locked tuning front- not meant at a shot at Jeff specifically and he knows we disagree on this point and these tunes through Fluid will be locked as well.

I HATE the idea of a tune in my car that is locked . Thats the whole point of getting tuning capability in the first place because the OEM has essentially locked you out of tuning your car. The tuners will say its like software code etc etc blah blah blah. For me its a guy taking a wrench to my car and then locking my hood. If i decided maybe i want someone else to tune my car i have to go back to "stock" and start from scratch. its just ridiculous.

It should be open period. I pay guy A for the service of tuning my car. Sometime later i think "maybe it could run a little better/stronger" So i go to guy B and he says"well your timing is X and you have Y jets in your carb lets take the timing to X-2"

With a locked tune guy B cant do that- he has to start from scratch. its just wrong.

Jeff and all the other Accessport tuners do a great job and its allot of work. I just wont ever buy a tune from them on that grounds. No matter if i know them and respect their ability (Jeff, Steve) nor if the tuner wants to be the Stig(Fluids contractor)

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The locking issue is a sticky one.
I would love to leave them unlocked.
Unfortunately, what has been historically proven (more than once), is that an unlocked tune gets stolen, utilized by a different vendor and sold as bespoke.

Look at it this way - Mazda "locked" their tune. If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to take your car to someone else to do the tuning. That would be any of those that offer this kind of service.
If you are inclined to change it yourself or have someone else do it, they are, in turn able to do whatever they want to do.
Really, if guy "B" in your example was worth his salt, he wouldn't care what guy "A" did - he would want to start from scratch after observing your car's behavior.

What you are looking for is to find someone to do the really hard part (getting it within 95%) for FREE and then pay someone else (or do it yourself) to make it work for your application.
That is like saying your favorite artist should release their music and give away their CD for free so that you can make it suit your purposes for no charge.
Or, alternately, you are willing to pay for the CD once, but then manipulate the EQ, balance, etc and then give that away to anyone else that doesn't want to share in your initial purchase.
In the end, the individual who took the initial risk doesn't get rewarded.

Once of the things I do to ameliorate this "conflict" is to give away the tunes at no charge as a reward for buying the AccessPORT from me.
Even Fluid isn't offering that.
People are quick to forget that when they are complaining that I don't work fast enough.
What do you want for nothing?

alienRX8

^^^I partially agree with you Zoom

I think that they cannot open those maps up that easily because then they will run out of customers maybe. If seen from the standpoint of a software developer you will see it is like them locking the source code in a way.

But I do belive that if I pay a bit extra I should be able to get an unlocked map so that I can see what has changed in my car and be able to do MINOR tweaks in a dyno since Jeff is so far away from me. Right now I trust Jeff 100% with the task of tuning my car but being he is so far away I would like to help him out with minor stuff I could learn. There are ZERO tuners in Puerto Rico that tune AP's that will tune my car.

alienRX8

Also agree with this. It could make people steal the tune.

I think this is more a moral thing but since not everyone has their morals correctly placed then this could happen and most probably will happen if the maps get unlocked to everyone.

But still I wish I could learn to tune it myself. Hell i'd pay to learn to tune it myself.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It was amazing to me how quickly my initial calibrations got stolen.
Within the first few weeks of sending out AccessPORTs, I was getting calibrations from the field that were mine (they even still contained my copyright notice!) being sold by other vendors.

I wouldn't call it a "moral" dilemma. Its just survival.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

You all know my opinion on this so I won't retype it.

I understand your concern Jeff; but that is why they make legal protections against copyright violations.

And you don't give away your tunes - nor should you; but are you providing a product or a service? The distinction is key.

alienRX8

Its sad that people steal other person's work. It is survival but people doing it is showing the bad morals they have.

I did not know this had happened to you and I am very sorry to hear it.

Its sad that when things like this happens all of us get hurt by it, but thats how it always works.

Still my offer stands. I would pay to learn how to tune, and not to get business from any of you since I already have enough work on my hands but just to be able to tweak my own car.

zoom44

well that im sure happened countless times before electronic timing and fuel control. as for someone always starting from scratch- nah. they look what the timing is and then decide how it could be changed. one guy tunes a car and the owner moves and takes it to a second guy who sees how the car is set up, likes what he sees and sets up customer 2,3,4 and 5 that way

actually with first sale law i can remix it and GIVE it away since ive purchased the CD. so maybe thats a discussion point- am i buying the "tune" so i have first sale rights over it or am i buying your service of providing a tune that you have not sold to me.

i prefer buying the tune so its mine

i hear ya. people suck