CZ Installed on N Flash with Major Mods
 

Yikes! I got the throttle setup done, confirmed I was communicating with map trace, and then loaded the Stage2 M Flash base map with minor timing changes, and here is my first run results. Now you might be wondering about the extra graph for (AFR + .6) I have the original Harrison CANScan, and Maurice, AKA Canzoomer, says that the chip in the unit does not read the O2 sensor correctly, and it needs to be upgraded. I have ordered the chip from CZ, and am still waiting for it. So, the extra plot is a more realistic graph of my AFR. Looks like I went way to lean at the top end. The car ran fine though, no pinging, knocking, detonation, etc...

52 Degrees F Ambient Temp
61 Degrees F Intake Temp
93% Humidity
23.99” Atmospheric Pressure
50 Degree Dew Point
N Flashed PCM
Lots of modifications to the car…. :D

I just did one run on the way into work, and then settled back on cruise control in closed loop mode the rest of the way into the office. I can adjust the map this afternoon.

But how does it feel??

wow! Kevin!! that's scary-lean....geesh!

:D

Get the thing tuned, and get back to the dyno! :D

It's a starting point for sure ;)

Here is the map I used - so the quest for perfection begins tonight.

It pushed me back in my seat if your curious.

You have no timing adjustment in that map....effectively resulting in 3-4 degrees of retard over stock above about 7K.......

Why does it look like I went open loop earlier again?

I went REALLY lean after installing the REVi. I had to knock-down the tune from a max adjustment of about 40 to about 17!! - and I'm still lean!! :eek:

Here's my latest run. The darn CanScan is really giving me problems. Every once in a while it registers some crazy-ass RPM like 25000 or an AFR of 250. Anyone else get these? It also looks like this CanScan unit is going to refuse to connect anymore - same as the last one I had before Dan exchanged it. Seems they are good for about 10 logs and then they crap out on me. go figure...

-MD

We need to get you a better XLS to work with. Mine has an little quirk to it that I have to fix every time I calculate data. But your graph is hard to read. Can you post your log file here as a .txt file?

Are you doing this in first gear? I thought third gear was to be used for logging. What I do, is set the trigger for logging to start at 4000 RPM, then I slowly accelerate in first & second gears below 4000 RPM, then shift to third and floor it until redline.

I log in different gears. Since I am mostly concerned with acceleration from a red light, I tune in 1st and 2nd. I rarely ever push 7k RPM in 3rd. That's gotta be close to 80MPH?

Second tune. I decided to go ahead and richen the top end before making several runs and taking averages. I'm slowly going to get there. My target is 13.2 - 13.4 for this first attempt.

Third Tune...
 

Getting better. A couple of enginners at the office saw me working on this at lunch, and offered to help me sort the curve out. One said, that looks like I could create the table in Easy Plot, and the other said yes that is correct. So, the only thing that I am still unsure of in tuning with the support tool, is how do you know what cell to start with based on the throttle column?

WOT=100% line
Adjust 90% line to keep it in line with 100% line

Try that...then if necessary later do some 80,70,60% runs and log and tune them.

You mean clear all the cells from 0-80? And just tune the 90 and 100 cells with the same numbers? Should I also clear the timing map to zero?

This is hard to do with only one person... If I had four hands and a track, I would be done by now. So, it will take time to get this right.

quick question, is it ok to get your car reflashed with the cz still installed?

I'm not really sure, but I would take it out. I have had mine in and out several times. It really is not that hard or time consuming to do.

True I'll do it at work before I take it in. here is what I ran today with my stage 3 :D

Wow! how do you get the curve to be so flat? I'd like to see your map, can you post it here?

not at the moment cause I adjust my maps using the Profec E-01 not the laptop. I some people have doubted me saying that I tweeked the map itself but I can produce the raw data to prove it. but like I said untill I can figure out how to work it so I can connect my laptop and profec on the same line with out major wire changes I can post the map. now maybe if I get a card reader and read the mem card in it..... hmmm

I noticed that your Excel graph has a bigger AFR scale for 0-16. That make the curve look flatter. Mine is scaled 11-15. How did you mount the Profec? I was thinking of doing it also. And the USB connection to the CZ, how did you get the plastic cover to fit over it?

You could always just copy the numbers to a spreadsheet from the Profec. It's 16x16, so it should not take to long. :)

yeah I put a 0 in the first # to get the the other scale. I mounted the profec to the right of the console, and to make it fit you have bent the shit out of the wire and push the cz all the way back. and your right, I could but I'm lazy :D anyways man I'm goin to bed I'll check back with you tomarrow.

Hey man I just got the N flash didn't change too much but it did become a bit too lean for my liking. I also connected my laptop directly to the CZ to update the firmware as well. so I uploaded the map. One of the maps is the first run then my last tuned run.

Awesome - post your log files from the CANScan or PM me for my e-mail :D

I am still tuning.... As you can tell :rolleyes:

here ya go buddy. I got a car show to go to today so I got to go scrub on my car :\

i'd richen things up between 7500-8000 rpms... looks like the knock sensor may be pulling timing out on you

Yep - thanks. I noticed that also and added fuel there. Should make another log today with the changes. I wish I had help doing this... Dan?? :D

OK, I plotted your logs in my xls. Disregard the red dotted line, I use that because my CANScan has the old ROM chip in it, and it does not read the AFR correctly. I noticed that you have 99 as your throttle position... How the hell did you get that? I can only get mine to 78... Oh, well.

How was the car show?

I actually just programmed a 13.6/mad ignition advance map yesterday in 1 try...

I basically looked at the stock a/f ratio (~12.6) and my old 13.0 a/f ratio map - took the numbers in the cells, devided each by the new a/f ratio - stock a/f ratio for the rpms effected by that cell, then took that number and multiplied it by the wanted a/f ratio - stock a/f ratio (but capped it off at 50 if it was above) and it seemed to work beautifully...

in other words...

k = (emanage fuel #)/(a/f - stock a/f) .... per cell

and the new tune number = k * (wanted a/f - stock a/f)



so basically its just doing some linear interpolation...

That's it! I knew someone would figure it out... Awesome :D

I was looking to do only 13.2. How does your car run at 13.6?

oh it runs pretty damn good... :p

I don't think I did this right... I confused myself :o

How ignition adv?
k = (emanage fuel #)/(a/f - stock a/f) .... per cell
and the new tune number = k * (wanted a/f - stock a/f)

I got it :o

OK, I am going to run this tonight on the way home based on interpolation of my stock tune and my last cz tune. I'm tuning for 13.0 on this map. I want to stay safe until I know what I am doing better. When Maurice releases the new ROM chip for me, I will eliminate the red safe plot line. Here it is in case you are curious. I still have the timing zeroed out also. I also attached my stock AFR and my most recent CZ tune in case you are curious... Fingers crossed. ;)

You are going to trip fuel trims with all of the off throttle stuff in that map :)

Might want to delete everything below 40% throttle for now

Yep - I did after I posted that. Thought the same thing....

Wow, that's some serious fuel trim you've got at 7000 & 7400 rpm! Especially since the modd'ed intake & exhaust would tend to lean you out a bit anyway.

You're using the version of CanScan that sees the knock sensor?

What octane fuel are you running?

Thanks!

I am struggling really bad with this right now... I try and make changes to correct the map, and then all of the sudden something else is changing... Errrrgg. I just cannot seem to get the hang of this... :(

No - Standard issue, but it is getting a ROM chip upgrade soon.

92 Either Chevron or Shell.

Well, that didn't work out very well... I'm loading back an older map that I know is safe to use until I can figure this out. Look at those lean spikes! Yikes :eek:

Should I change the RPM Columns to a number that is on these areas that the engine goes lean naturally? It seems that the splikes are always between ranges, and getting the map to interpolate correctly is a pain.

Since you are not using the first few columns of your map, I'd re-scale and maximise your resolution. You might be able to tune those spikes then.

BTW, for what its worth, I have had lean areas much worse than that! I started with a map that was around 50% adjustment and had to work my way back to about 15% adjustment max. There was a lot of time spent with really lean areas in my AFR. No damage yet. I wouldn't be concerned about it. Of course, I eventually got it richened out, but it took a while. My point is that I doubt you have done any harm.

thats what i did for the spikes as well as pulling ignition advance away from the spikes since I never could tune them out completely

A note from Maurice about this curve:

"Adding .6 to the numbers is not a solution. It is nothing like a linear curve. Although that addition will keep you in the safe zone for the most part. Be careful around 6,600 to 6800rpm. N is a bit lean there from what I have seen so far. Your curve is not bad looking. Perhaps richen up a bit at the top around 7700-8000." CZ

So the .6 is staying until the new ROM chips are released, I think it is a good idea to "stay safe". I'll add more fuel at 7800 RPM and run this again today. Does this mean that all of you out there are tuning too lean because of the original CANScan's problem with reading the O2S1 sensor correctly? Or am I the only one? I'm going to tweak this map leaner until the CZ AFR reaches 13.1.

Okay. Educate me. We are all saying that 13.1-ish is "safe".... why? Its safe to run stoich at lower RPM, why is is not safe to do so above some magic threshold? We've probably all done it inadvertantly anyway. Is it a long-term concern? Obviously, the engine won't blow doing it occasionally. How is this more stressful than running boost?

I need the education :)

Until my CANScan can correctly read the O2 sensor, I'm not really sure where to tune for. Maybe that is another reason why some keep getting inconsistency in their logs. So, in the meantime, I'm shooting for 13.1. When the new chip and software is released, which is real soon, I will tune for more power.

It still looks to me that you are up against the knock sensor - I also have the N flash but have the ecu sending out 30 degrees of advance from 7000 rpms to redline and it looks like yours is bouncing around under 30 degrees.

Then again i could be just completely wrong... the more i think I understand things the more complicated they are :o

< the attachement is from 2 seperate runs >

I noticed that also... My timing map is all zeroed out completely also.

Well now MY CANScan quit working! I have tried everything to get it communicating again. The trials and tribulations of tuning with limited resources...

Timing adjustments made on the CZ unit will not show up on the CanScan...it will only tell you what the PCM is doing. You have to add the CZ value to the stock values to find out true timing advance. The PCM seems to pull timing based on Airflow......thats why the advance curve is not 30deg from about 7K up like on stock. Knock will also pull timing.....have yet to see that though :D