Cobb AP impressions and dynos
 

I've read several of the Cobb Discussion thread, but I didn't see what I was looking for. And I did not read the entire thread since there's about 60 pages.

I was hoping to find people's opinions of the differences felt and other dyno results vs. what's on Cobb's site.

Everyone is busy playing with their fuel trims. :lol: I am not even considering it until I see before and after dynos.

Please read the whole thread.

Moderators need to close this.

We don't need another AP thread.

Mods, please rename this thread Cobb AP Dyno results.

You can do that. Just edit the post.

actually, delete this thread until at least one person has a dyno to show :P

Good idea on having a Dyno results thread. Feel free to kill this thread.

But it would be good to read some anecdotal opinions on what people think thus far. I checked the Cobb forums and there's really nothing there either. Going through 60 pages on the Discussion thread is too much, especially when the pages I looked at were mostly about fuel trims and other technical data.

I'll contribue to this on April 26th. I have a dyno day set up, 20 cars are scheduled, more then half with AP's.

how many of those are NA?

I think Arizona will have a contribution in the next couple of days also.

at least 4 or 5

Skylee has put his car with the AP on the dyno but no graph. I believe he was running the base map from MM and has not moved on to the more agrgessive maps

Max HP: 185
Max TQ: 139

Hell I got more than that stock!

he might have been on a mustang dyno???
Razz: you did higher on a dynojet

I am at 198/140 already. A this point the RB flash is looking like a better deal. I thas also been proven to work.

heh. How is your statement logical?

It's just fuel and timing. Can the AP adjust fuel and timing? Of course. So of course the AP can do anything the RB does. In fact, you can get a custom map made for your car, instead of a generic map that your car has to adjust fuel trims for.


Furthermore, without a baseline dyno, saying someone has 180 whp means no gains is illogical. Some cars make 170, others make 190 without fuel management modifications.

^^^ yup. No baseline = stupid conclusion.
I'll have some more definitive info after MM, CRH, and I dyno 20 cars in 3 weeks. stay tuned.

My reasoning:

Cobb states that on a close to stock RX8 you can expect close to 10whp. The AP is a great product, and offers tailored tunes for your car. It is perfect for FI, but much less of a value for NA. Team RX8 dynoed the RB flash and got 9whp. The RB flash costs $300 while preserving the cat converter and I dont have to constantly tinker with it(fuel trims). Will anyone get 20hp from tuning with an NA RX8, very doubtful. Only then would a $700 tuning product be worth the effort, risk, and aggrivation for an NA RX8.

Bottom Line for NA cars:

RB Flash: 9whp $300
Cobb: 10whp $700

Here is my Dyno prior to getting the RB flash which I will be ordering soon unless someone can post some Cobb AP dynos that can change my mind.

No it is cool no one is forcing you to get the AP if you don't see the positive effects it allows to give your car then you should not get it. When you ever want to adjust any thing on your RB flash have fun trying to do it. Get the RB flash and have fun not driving you car for a few days but when you get it I am sure you will be some what pleased.

There is no need to mess with fuel trims on the AP either. The car will settle after a while. What we're doing is allowing the map to build in the trims so the car has no adjustments to make.


You mess out on the fact that the AP allows you to store and switch maps. If your dealer reflashes, you don't have to pay additional fees. You also get the ability for tweaking other params such as OMP flow rates. Or the AP itself as a odb2 reader.


You are correct however, that fuel is fuel. So if the RB flash pushes your car to the limits for NA, the AP would not give you increased gains over that. In a month or two we'll have the street port software out, and then the AP will also become a data logger, and you can modify the firmware maps yourself :)

Is there a missing the point smile?

Dont forget that the AP does more then just flash your ECU. Unlike the RB reflash, you can customize the tune with the AP, the OMP gets increased, the colling fans turn on earlier (how much is the mazsport cooling fan mod and how long does it take to install?) you can check and clear the CEL (how much does a mechanic charge?) You also get a race tune and a stock tune with 1 product, so if you ever remove your cat you do not have to pay another $300 for a reflash. There are a lot more benefits with the AP then I listed and I am very happy I got mine. Just like hitmann, I am not going to force you to get the AP, but if you think about it, it is a very good value and if you ever decide to go back to stock, you just reflash your car and you can sell your used AP and get a large percentage of money back. Try doing that with the RB reflash.

:banghead: :banghead: <---- that one will do

We dyno'ed three cars yesterday. Flashwing's, mine and MM's. I don't have any of the charts. MM will have to post those. But from what I saw with the Cobb AP is an infinite ability to tune your car. MM said he has over 500 maps already. And I can picture having 10 to 20 per car or more.
The main thing is every car is different. Be it the car, the mods, the weather the altitude. What Cobb has done is provided a way to tune your car perfectly for your conditions. You can adjust AFR's every 100 RPM's if you want. Same with engine timing. Watching that on the dyno graphs yesterday made me a believer in what a fantastic unit the AP really is.

someone must post those charts!

no, don't post them. Posting it will destroy the mystery and suspense that has been building up.

What we need is for this to build up to a huge climax, then leave us with a cliff hanger, and a promise for part 2 in a few years.

Sounds like a real familiar scenario around these boards....

the na cars are NOT going to see any appreciative difference in h/p or torque in comparison to the RB flash. It is however a very good tool to have for other things.
The renny is already tuned pretty good.
olddragger

^^^ correct. This isn't going to give any N/A cars a huge improvement in HP, rather it adresses many performance aspects (stft, ltft, afr, temps, etc) that can result in some additional HP and a better driving Renny!

OD: keep an eye on my SoCal Dyno thread.... we should have some very interesting findings in a few weeks. (20 cars in 1 day)

The good thing I see about the AP for us NA folk is that as you have seen many individuals that are not 100% stock are seeing issues with the cobb stage 1 map, the AP allows us (MM) to recalibrate the maps to fix any discrepencies. I wonder if the same thing is happening to people with the RB flash that are not stock. If so how would they know it and how would they fix it? I saw some scary AFR #'s at WOT using cobb stage 1.

ROger that, will be interesting
OD

Easy E beat me to the punch regarding the accessport. I am in the process of pulling some video of the operation of the AP to post up since I've seen nothing with the AP in action on the dyno.

MazdaManiac has my dyno results and I've left it up to him to post the results because he was the one supporting the dyno time and tuning. I will say that we performed a baseline tune and then used one of Mazdamaniac's generated maps that worked with my trims.

We ran an initial run with the stock programming, but the final OEM flash run we did as a baseline was more accurate to the car's true power.

Baseline run yielded approx 183 WHP. A pre-made tune yielded approx 194 to 195 WHP. This was at about 75 to 80 degrees F.

There's clearly room to go because there's additional specialized tuning that could be done on the car to yield more power. Still, for a pre-generated tune I was impressed. Mods on my car are the K&N Type 2, Cat back and test pipe, AP pulley, lightweight alternator and water pump pulleys.

This is certainly a device that NA people should look into. The ability to have your OMP kicked up a notch, adjust fan settings, kill CEL's and also the tuning is well worth the money. Ditch your CAT and you'll open up some opportunities for power.

We want Video Todd! Then we can watch Jeff hack up fur balls. :Eyecrazy:
For the NA the tuning parameters are so wide. You could make a map for every barometer, humidity and temperature change. Amazing the possibilities.

All hail the Access Port. Long live the Access Port.

which "premade" tune was this? stage 1? stage 2?

MM is going to have to answer this question. Neither Flashwing nor I new what Jeff was installing. And I don't think it was a pre made tune/flash. I think he was tuning the individual car at the time. Making new maps.

oohhh. flashwing had said it was a premade tune. ill wait for MM for clarification then =)

Quite possible he started with one. Whether he finished with one is another story. I believe he was doing some changes on the maps. Only MM knows for sure.
I know I am having them made as we test. Being the only 4 port NA at this point in time to be tested on the dyno.

The tune was tweaked for injector sizing as we found that my injectors are smaller than the rated size. I guess there's a percentage of variance from the factory. In this case the maps were running much to rich.

I'm sure MM can go into more detail. The part I wish to push is I was told that there's still more tuning that could have taken place. I'm in the process of uploading video from that dyno run. It's nothing ground breaking but those who have not seen the AP in action get to see a few things...and of course a few jokes thrown in there as well.

how many dyno runs were done?

Flashwing's tune was, essentially, 1_3a for the '05.
I played around with injector scaling, but didn't do any real tuning - I was working with limited time on the dyno (I was paying out-of-pocket for three cars for my own benefit). I was mainly interested in corroborating the known effects of 1_X and 1b_X on a know intake setup. This wasn't a tuning session.
Putting Easy's car on there was a two-fold operation: proof of concept on the A/T firmware (it works) and a bit of an experiment to see where his 30 HP went.
Unfortunately, It doesn't appear to have been stolen by bad tuning.
Putting my car on there was purely to verify the MAF scaling and injector staging.
None of this was for power information particularly.
Furthermore, I have specifically stated that increased power is an ancillary benefit of the AccessPORT and that reliable tuning with increased functionality is its primary benefit.
We will see if there is any power to be made on the various street applications in a few weeks.

I apologize for misleading anyone by saying it was a tuning session. We did see an increase in power but as Jeff mentioned it wasn't the result of any real tuning, just using one of the flashes he provides.

I have included a video from that day so you can see the accessport in action. For anyone looking for visual proof or just curious to see it work feel free to check it out.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...44041718&hl=en

Any dynos yet?

I have a dyno, but the ignition was breaking up, so it doesn't show anything of note.

End of this month I'll have a new dyno run ... but it cannot be compared with previous runs to show "AccessPort improvements" because several things will have changed. So I don't know if I can help this thread much.

Mysql,

Are you gonna dyno it with the mazsport igntion with the correct dwell setting?

no, I sold those coils already. I don't mind getting my engine tuned, but having to also tune my coils is too much. If I had known this was the requirement, I wouldn't have purchased it to begin with.

I still don't understand.

Scott said the Dwell settings would take 5mins to change. :dunno:

Is there is more to this? Cause if so I will go back to OEM coils also.

Yea, i am also wondering the same thing...

Turborx8,
have you ask MM to change the dwell setting for you?
I emailed him few days ago and have not heard back yet..
he's the most busiest man on earth, lol

I hope the Ignition is not just something that N/A people will enjoy... If its to much of a pain to manage the fuel and the ignition dwell at every dyno tune I will have to abandon them as well once I get ready for my turbo.

I will miss them, in N/A they made a huge improvement.

... the question/ thought I have "is the ignition solution causing any kind of damage to our engines as it is (not Dwell tuned)"

^^ No, not particularly.
The only risk is if you get a misfire on a leading coil under high load.
If combustion is initiated only by a trailing plug under high load, you can get a monster ping, which might break things.