Skiptomylue

i dont know if this belongs here, dont know where else to ask though, it has to do with power.. i keep reading that the rx7 only became these power machines we all know of today only a few years ago.. how long is a few years ago.. like.. was it in the year 2000 when they got the improvment to become these easly made 4-500hp monsters.. ??its just a question.. im not sure..

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

It became powerful I think around 1997-9 ?

Jason

I would say that its still an on going process with the limit on the RX-7. Performance parts for the 7 really took off about 6 years ago. I would say its only been a couple of years that people have figured out a good upgrade path to make them semi reliable. Greatest modification in years has been the Apexi Power FC which is the stand alone ECU for that car. Its made it possible to really tune the car well which adds to reliability and HP.

The RX-8 will be in the same boat as time goes by.

dillsrotary

when vin diesel put the parts on his tab


edit: HUGE mistake.

rotarygod

Good ecu control didn't appear until the late 90's and even then it was complex, expensive, and finding a good tuner wasn't that easy. The 3rd gens could get 300 hp on the stock computer but when it came to doing much more, it required a different ecu option. The 2nd gen RX-7's were getting 350+ hp for a long time using piggyback computers. In the mid to late 90's you started seeing Haltech getting more common as well as Wolf EMS and others. Power quickly rose as well. At the time these were the most powerful but also most complex options. There were people that were getting really high numbers fairly early on but they weren't doing it as easily as they can today. It has only been within the last 10 years but really just the past 5 that aftermarket ecu solutions have become popular, easier to get a hold of, and easier to tune. Even the RX-7 suffered from the dreaded ecu control issue. Peter Farrel came out with the PMS (purple box) fairly early in the 3rd gen era that was an add on box for the car to tune the engine. It was the RX-8 equivalent of the Canzoomer. Then came the Apexi Power FC. This is a completely new ecu that unplugs the original ecu and plugs the new one right in. It's as simple as can be. As technology gets more and more invasive and complex it will take longer and longer to adapt to it. The nice thing is that with more ecu control in cars, that's more that we'll be able to change later as well.

dillsrotary

fix, {wipes brow}, don't tell anyone.....

mjones53

my '91 TURBO II put out 400hp, of course that was after pretty heavy upgrades. It was a ROCKET>> just kept blowing turbo seals...

JB_Rotary

I REALLY hope they make a Power FC for ours.

Skiptomylue

so, would you say we have a bit of an advantage over the rx7 in terms of where the power really lies and how to achieve it... one of the first things out was the Interx, an ecu, and its seemed to help a lot.. and has anyone heard of someone creating an entirely New ecu like the "purple" box?? or.. is there to much in the rx8 Ecu to be able to do that?
im not trying to make this a rx7 vs rx8 war, im just really really intrested in cars, i want to get to know them better, how to work on them better, and in my case, i want to know as much about my car/engine as i can, and i think a good spot would be the past info on other rotarys...
also, if they came out with the apexi power FC which hold the "true" power for the rx7, is that the most recommended first mod??
our first mods include Flywheel + interx..
i guess theres would be the Purple box

brillo

you guys have to remember that a stock turbo charged car has huge potential over an NA due to the conservative tuning of the turbo by the manufacturer. Turbo FC's and FD's with just a few mods can get some impressive gains, but NA your just not going to see that.

dillsrotary

rumor has it the power FC is slowly being discontinued for model years of the rx7

Renesis_8

Yes... a turbocharged car will always have an advantage...

For RX-8 owners, we'll have to spend huge money to get to the 350whp level.

Look at the Mazdaspeed 6, they already have aftermarket turbo, FMIC, TMIC, downpipe, exhaust, intake upgrades. Mind you the car was first released as a 2006 model. It all comes down to money, with the same money, people can get a lot more hp than NA cars, and that generates aftermarket interests.

It was quite interesting to watch the Mazdaspeed 6 forum as new mods keep on coming during the past year. Japan8 and I became frequent posters there too. Hey Japan8 if you see this.
________
WEB SHOWS

mysql101

my question would be - where on the timeline does the rx8 compare to the history of the rx7. While we don't have a stand alone fuel management system, are we close to the breakthrough point the rx7 had 6 years ago, or are we still a few years away from reaching that?

AdRoCK3217

I don't understand. Someone asked for a PFC for the 8..we already have a "PFC" of sorts. The Interceptor-X is basically the PFC for the RX8...it doesn't replace the ECU, it just takes over its fuel/timing section.


I don't really see a breakthrough for the RX8 happening..at least not until they become "cheaper" and in the hands of their 3rd, 4th, or 5th owners. Aka, the "enthusiasts".

dillsrotary

HAHAHA serious? HAHAHA

sosonic

I think a cheaper and easier to program ECU will be the breakthrough. This will let you squeeze out the last drops of performance and have it as part of LOW priced turbo or supercharger kit.

Skiptomylue

well what i wantto know, is that, how is a car that comes with TT and makes 255 hp, have more potential in something that comes in an NA form with ~232hp?
why woudl the rx7 have more potential when there is already a FI kit slapped on, when it only makes (by mazda claims) 20 more hp then an na engine?

Moostafa29

The REW was designed to handle boost, so giving it much more boost won't hurt it more. The compression in the MSP is high, so you can't boost it as much. Plus the MSP is was overrated for what people are actually seeing, but that is a whole other discussion.

gh0st

when people say "potential", what are they talking about? potential power NA, potential power with FI, potential fuel economy, reliability?

to counter what your saying, one could say " the renesis is near maxed from the factory, but the FD could see 300+ hp on factory parts." these debates tend to go on forever becuase everyone defines potential their own way.

its not that i disagree with what your saying, its just that i think these types of posts should be more specific. but so far, the fd makes more power both FI AND NA. who knows if that will change in 4-5 years.

AdRoCK3217

The majority of the RX8 market is not interested in doing serious turbo modifications. Hence why the GReddy kit is BASICALLY the only kit available on the market. It is "complete", easy to install, no fab-work necessary, etc...

Break-throughs happen when LOTS of enthusiasts start taking chances and doing mods their own way, fabbing things themselves, etc.


What is your take on this, Mr. Laugh? So far you've put no useful information into this thread, all you've done is mentioned Vin Diesel and put out a rumor.

BaronVonBigmeat

^^^The Mazsport kit is available now, but otherwise yeah I agree.

It's pure numbers and demographics. Most people interested in big HP numbers didn't buy an RX-8 in the first place. There are lots of Altima owners for example, but how many care about HP enough to buy a turbo kit? RX-8 owners tend to place a bigger emphasis on appearance and handling, thus the many handling options and bodykits available. Judging from the GTO forums, it seems that they are the polar opposite of us--lots of engine options, fewer handling and bodykit mods. It's all about the average owner's priorities.

Then the numbers of RX-8's are fairly small. The newer Mustang is a N/A car too but they got several FI options almost immediately, simply due to sheer numbers. If you're a company looking to spend the time and money developing a kit, you tend to go after the bigger markets first.

I think overall the 8's FI options will not take off until lots of 8's begin to outlive their warranties (or are available used for cheap enough). What's the warranty, 4 years/50,000 miles or something? So four years...wait until mid 2007. We will probably have 3 supercharger kits by then. Maybe they could have rushed and devoted more money and had something by now, but what's the point if the market is too small.

The Renesis is 10:1 compression and the FD was like 9:1 (?), being a factory turbo'd car.

gh0st

careful baronvonbigmeat (i hate typing your name), people might take that as high compression cars cant make HP.

sorry, just seen a lot bad info get passed around in the last few days

BaronVonBigmeat

They can of course, but most factory FI cars come with lower compression for a reason.

paladin

I would say the rx8 is more like the 1st gen rx7.....n/a, great handling sporty car. There are alot more 1st gens on the road with their original motor than 3rd or FI 2nds. I believe the rx7 also has longer and wider apex seals than the rx8. Even with the greddy kit hp number would be limited without larger seals, porting, and a lot more fuel. Plus with the FD's a rebuild is usually required by 60k ($4000) I think alot of tuners might not want to work on the new rotaries because of the very unforgiving nature of the FD's.

paladin

oh yeah...if you look at the rx7 forums you'll notice alot of them are swapping in ls1's