What will the MS RX-8 be powered by?
 

I have been thinking about this for a while. There has been alot of speculation, and alot of rumors...but no one really seems to know at this point.

I heard from my "know-it-all" Mazda tech, that the MS RX-8 will be powered by a
3-rotor Renesis. I laughed, and he said "I'm serious." So, of course, we take all we hear with a grain of salt...but i actually thought about it. It seems like a viable idea, and actually it would make alot of sense...others chime in and let me know what you think.

1) The RX-8 was not turbocharged orginally to save on cost. Cheaper than the last RX-7, but with performance in the same ballpark.

2) Adding a 3rd Rotor does not add significantly more weight...does it?

3) The MS 6 is coming with 274hp and 280lb/ft. That is huge. We know that the MS 6 will weigh significantly more than the 8, but 36 more hp and 120 more torque??!! What happened to the RX-8 being the flagship?!

What is the gu-estimate for a NA 3-Rotor Renesis? I have read that it comes to about 350hp + or -, and about could we expect the same % increase in torque...
to about 240lb/ft?

I think that this would be Mazda best course of action, and it would take over the lead(again) of being the most powerful production Mazda...as it should. Personally, I hope it's a 3-Rotor....but, don't we all?

if you think the 2 rotor renesis' fuel economy is bad, wait til you see a 3 rotor gulping gas!!!! :eek:

I'm betting on supercharger for ms rx-8

TT would be best ofcourse... but another rotor would be nice... and yes u'll be useing MORE fuel for that extra rotor... it's gonna be VERY expensive....

My guess is boost--most likely supercharger for reliability purposes. However we may see a smaller 2 door or 2 seat RX7 using the same 6-port Renesis with the same 238HP output. Such a car would be lighter and more focused-- with a better power to weight ratio than the RX8 it would have 0-60 times on par or beating the 350Z.

i heard and read a couple of supercharged rx8s floating around in the LA area by MNAO. So i'm guessing they're going to release to supercharged version. But they might be just fooling around with the rx8 or something. When has the rx8 become the flagship? I always thought the 3 or 6's were their best sellers. I wouldn't hold my breath on the MS rx8 though...

^now that you mention it, I think they already have the main ingredients available for the next-gen 2 seat rotary car. Use the renesis (obviously), and retro-engineer the Miata chassis (which is pretty much a short-wheelbased version of the 8's), and voila, the *pure* rotary sports car returns, without much new engineering overhead!

bestsellers are called 'bread-n-butter' cars, not *flagship*

flagship means something sexy and fun that attracts buyer into dealerships so they can buy the bread-n-butter car ;)

...as long as Mazda offers the SC to other rx8 owners...even if they (and why wouldn't they?) over-charge to the extreme for the kit.

I'd pay $1000 too much for an SC kit which maintained my warranty.


IF they build it.

it wasnt turboed because the FD was a giant flop in the sales department due to its horrible reliability. The performance is definitly NOT in the same ballpark, my neck doesnt hurt after driving my 8 and lets just say thats not from the small seats. though il give you that the 8 handles a lot better. (little to no understeer, :drool:)

if they want to avoid forced induction it will have to be a 3 rotor, however i dont really see this happening, becuase if you think of it compared to a piston engine that would mean it would be the equivilent of a V-8/10 give or take a piston.

i have a few friends that work at mazda saying the rumors are flying around the area of a supercharger, or small single turbine. id rather not guess, and just wait and see.

1. one of the main reasons for not turbo charging was emissions related.
3.RX* is still the flagship as the MS6 is still slower:D

there are more issues than i can point out in this post as to why a 3 rotor renesis doesnt make sense. but it really doesnt.look for future power increases to come from increasing displacement of the 2 rotor(1.5l) and supercharging. oh and probably a mr. fusion ;)

Actually emissions will still be problematic for a 3 rotor...so its not just about fuel economy either.

Most think the MS RX-8 will be FI with either a turbo or supercharger. Given that the Renegade RX-8 MS prototype (or whatever you want to call it) from R&T's SPEED mag of last year was supercharged, I'm guessing the real USDM MS RX-8 maybe sc-ed also.

However, I've also read that Mazda is working on a 2 rotor NA 16b that's capable of close to 300hp. That engine has been mentioned in the same whispers about a potential 4th gen RX-7. If it's true, the 2 rotor 16b maybe what ends up in the MS RX-8 as well.

A 1.6 2 rotor wouldn't be that much heavier than the current 1.3, and would certainly be less than a 3 rotor.

I'm gonna guess turbo.

And I don't think the fuel economy of a 3-rotor would be all that bad though, as far as EPA numbers go. It's the same reason why a lot of cars with huge V-8's get decent fuel economy -- with a bigger torqier engine, you can just spend more time in a higher gear at a lower RPM. 6th gear could be really, really tall.

However, once you really get on it, of course the economy numbers will drop pretty hard, but that's no different from *any* fast car, be it V-8, turbo, rotary, or some combination of those. :)

Kleggspeed...

The idea of Mazda adapting R. Paul's axial flow would be great. Just make the car more unique than it already is.

I'm putting my bets on a twin-screw application.

I put my money on Supercharged. I saw a test version on the freeway near Mazda US HQ... a red RX-8 was pacing a Yellow with a huge hood scoop thing. Did not sound like our regular Rotary, and it wasn't a turbo sound either. I've seen the car only once, but you would think if they are focusing on this version for the RX-8, it's a good likelihood that the MS version will be SC.

Another thing to consider is that WHEN the MS version comes out, it will have other spiffy things besides just bodykit,sway bars, exhaust..etc. For the US market, I can see the SC version.. pushing the cost to about 40-45k range. This would put it back up to the RX-7 FD level cost-wise. With current economics, that isn't too expensive still.

Why not a hybrid rotory? It would give the 8 better gas milage more torque and horsepower.

Here's a link regarding the possible 2006 RX7


http://www.rx7city.com/2006rx7.htm

that's too expensive even for a top-of-line sportscar, especially if it doesn't have an 'L', three-pointed star, or a propeller badge on the hood.

I'm guessing the price will be consistent with what Mazda has done so far for all their Mazdaspeed-badged cars, which means a margin of $2-3000 over the base price of the top trim model of the regular car.

for the RX-8, the base MSRP for a GT pkg (not counting additional options) is what, 31k? So base on that number, I'm betting that the MS RX-8, when it comes out, will start at a price BELOW $35000 (a VERY reasonable price for both the seller and buyer)

Translation: Expect about 250hp.

:)

But if it does get Supercharged/Turboed... It will push it even higher... add another 3-4k on top of all that. + Additional MS stuff like the exhaust, swaybars, etc etc etc...

Or they could simply cut that cost down by not offering it in Leather, have no homelink, etc etc.. using the Base model as the basis of the MS. But since it is in the US, the more the better, I'm sure it will be the ultra everything package.

don't count the dollars like you would from an aftermarket kit when counting number of modifications from a factory tuned performance car.

after the initial R&D cost (which is already done for the suspension and all the auxiliary parts that'll probably come with the MS RX-8), the actual fabrication and installation cost of the extra parts (esp the forced induction pieces) is A LOT lower than what a similar aftermarket kit would cost you (in addition to the car itself of course).

so a $3000 *total* margin for all the MS-upgraded parts is definitely feasible (and probably a little profitable too). They did it for Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazdaspeed Miata (which actually MSRP's LESS than the highest-end normal Miata!), and the upcoming Mazdaspeed 6 (which comes in a just below $30k, and this is with addition of AWD on top of turbo!)

plus it's good marketing to price a car under 35k, people like to round numbers in 5's :D

If it were 40-45K, as someone suggested, it better be on par with performance of a C6 vette. Otherwise, it won't capture any market except from die hard rotary fans. Going to need much more than 300bhp to get that done.

mazda is sure taking their time with it

we will have to wait and see I guess
they should offer it in a special color too I think

Mazda - if you're listening.
1.6L Supercharged.
I'll take two.

Better yet, MS 8 - 1.3L SC
New RX7 - 1.6L SC
I'll take the 7

The FD's reliability wasn't the cause of the sales--it was a weak dollar, high insurance, and lack of practicality--the same reason 3000GT, Supra, and 300ZX were discontinued.

heheheh with a big "powered by kleggspeeed" sticker acrosse teh top of the windshield!!!!!hahahahaha
:D :D

on a side note- it will also have a true clutchlesas manual ala smg option and NO auto option:)

i'd hope they'd offer whatever FI they decide to go with to us non-MS8 owners

Yeah, I thought a 3 rotor rotary in England was getting 27mpg in the highway??? I would love for it to say NA and be the happy owner of the first 3-rotor (correct me if I'm wrong) street car...RX, ever made.

If they could at least maintain the fuel economy and get 350HP out of a NA 3-rotor...that was be SWEEEEEETTTTT

I'm glad they're taking their time, once they come out with it, my RX8 will be crap, and i'll have to buy a new one. :p

I heard it will be powered by Di-Lithium Crystals

Why does the 2004 Parts Manual show these "Turbocharger Studs" ????

^ things that make you go: "Hmmmmmm..."

warp speed anyone?

Engage! :D

Mazda already uses an electrically assisted turbocharger on the hydrogen powerded RX-8

I'd love the ms rx-8 to have it!!! boost from 1000 rpm thanks to the electric assist, max boost controlled by the ecu with the same electric motor keeping the turbo rpm on check, regenerative / recharge when not on boost... very innovative technology

Mazda and Nissan as reportedly spending a lot of time playing with these electric motors for turbo's, maybe something good will come of it..=)

oh here is a pic of the Project 77 car...this is an EXCLUSIVE!

http://www.caradisiac.com/php/essai_...bis/pop_03.php

:cool: :rolleyes:

interesting find Nem...lets investigate

Make it so number one. :)

Actually dannobre found it and showed it to me :)

Maybe it is for the Hydrogen Turbo, but what is it doing in the 2004 parts book? The Hydrogen car came later...

they've been researching hydrogen burning rotaries forever, maybe they already had plans for it when designing the 8.

it could also be that from 1992 to 2002 they built the twin turbo RX-7 and decided for cost purposes to keep the renesis rotor housing castings similar...

Why would Mazda be testing prototype cars in the US? I thought all design, testing, etc. was done in Japan...for the RX-8.

yea but MNAO does things liek that as do teh other branches.....then teh parent company will deciede or not...to run with the best design that the kids make :D

Ahhhhh...that makes sense :)

the Mazdaspeed Protege is a MNAO-led project that started this whole factory tuned Mazdaspeed car business. Before the MSP, Mazdaspeed is purely a factory *aftermarket* performance parts brand, no "out of the box" tuned cars.

Mazda has a both a design and an R & D dept. here in Irvine. I have a friend over at Mazda designing cars...haven't spoken to him for a while..I should try and pry some info. off of him :D

Regarding the testing, companies do alot of testing in areas where they know they will sell alot of cars, or in areas where there are extreme temperatures..sort of testing the Veryon, Porsche GT & turbo and Volvo in sub zero climates along with Death Valley in CA...also to deal with the daily traffic and grind of daily driving....The FD was extensively tested here, because they figured CA would be a large moneymaker.

There gonna go Hybrid, Super Charger or 1.6 L

Even though they have a turbocharger, I don't think they'll go that route due to emissions, and reliability.

We'll have to wait and see.

i think theyre gonna put a v8 motor in it.

Good point. That's the smartest thing you have ever said :D

They had a three rotor in the late 90s on a jap home market car..the cosmo I think it was called. I do not see that happening here...the gas milage alone would be a deal breacker.

Mu mony is on a suosercharger of some sort..Although the last years of the 7, Home market, I think they got it all right with the turbo

Keep the faith brother..we are working on something new..think..elephant beetles..