lolachampcar

I posted this over in racing and did not get much in the way of a response. I was really looking for feedback more from the track day guys versus the hard core racers.

"I got involved in helping a friend test a RX-8 data logging system to help tuners tune RX-8s. After seeing what could be logged and how fast it could be logged, it occurred to me that all the little brick was missing was a beacon receiver, two axis accelerometer and a five sample per second GPS engine and it would be every bit as capable as the Motec Dash I used to learn how to drive with (two liter sports racer many years ago).

Sooooo
I asked the guys at EFIDude if I could add a two axis accelerometer, aim beacon receiver and five hertz GPS module to their logger and they agreed. I got it up and running. The package was less than the size of a pack of cigarettes and was capable of track mapping and the like (with appropriate PC side software). My question for all of you is, is there any market to finish this puppy off and try to make it a real product? I think the hardware part could be sold for under $300 if they built enough of them. Installation would consist of plugging it into your OBDii port and laying it on your dash.

Any thoughts?"

Please forgive my running it up the flagpole here, but it seems a lot sharp guys are on this section. I also thought there was a better chance of finding people that do track days here.

Spin9k

my 2c. Of course it is nice what you speak of, which I assume from not having read the other posts (link?) you mean combining a datalogger for tuning with a track day data logger for driving improvement?

With the market already a few yrs down the road with track data logging system part of the product, is it worth the effort to try to redo the same thing? That would be a question to ask yourself after you've experienced the other products already on the market....don't know if you've been able to do that, but you should. They've been developed from racing dataloggers for the more casual user and so have the benefit of hindsight and experience in their development.

So what's out there is a track day tool that can be optioned up to record mutiple analog and digital inputs of your choice. So they've left the 'tuning' data logging part to your custom design, but use the framework of the track data logging system to do it with.

So re-creating that hardware part is nice, but realizing hardware is simply the means to an end....to get good data to the software, then the software is really EVERYTHING as far as 'goodness' of a product for improving your performance on track (and tuning as well). IOW if you can't easily use the data or get what you want from the data quickly, what good is the data? Not much unless your a hard core racing team. So software development and user interface are paramount to a useful tool. That then is where the costs start to pile up.

I've only used one system, the Traqmate so that's the product I can compare to your ideas. So.... let's assume you want to input some data for tuning... then here's is how their hardware is already better (and their sw is suberb!) than you proposed system, as far as I can see from your description....

Immediately - you refer to 5 sample/sec gps logging. Traqmate already does 10/20/40 samples/sec. I find 20 is OK, but 40 is better for track accuracy. At 120mph 1 sec is 200ft, if you only take 5 samples/sec your track accuracy is only one data point every 40 ft which is pretty useless when overlaid on a track map. Make your unit better, but up go the hardware costs. It's already here with far greater precision for your tuning data as well.

Beacon receiver? You mean like placing a beacon at track side to get lap times? That is so old school when compared to GPS built into the Traqmate. Most HPDE groups by default don't allow beacon use anyway. The Traqmate works like this... you start it up on your first time out for a weekend. It says "Press for Start/Finish", so where ever you want start/finish to be you press the button and it remembers those GPS coordinates form then on. So next session/day/month out, when you pass that point on the track, it starts.... and gives you lap times every time you go by that point again during a session. It remembers the s/f points for multiple tracks, it doesn't get any easier than that.

That's just two thoughts of comparision and I'm sure there are many others. Bottom line is it may be difficult to sell something that isn't very simple to use to any other than hardcore racers and has limited resolution for track needs (vs tuning needs). I've seen guys at HPDEs with cars they've instrumented out so it looks like a lunar lander with wires running all over the interior with boxes everywhere that couldn't do much more than the cig-sized box I use and can move from car to car if I wished in 10 minutes.

One thing I've asked Traqmate to do was tap into the car like you speak of, but they won't do it for various reasons. I think it has to do with the speed of data aquisition on the bus (relatively slow), and the likely possibility of over using the bus to the point the car performance could be affected. Still it would be nice....if auto companies had only mandated an ethernet topology we'd be sitting pretty!

Good discussion though, I love to contemplate these things and find my datalogging tool to be essential track day equipment

Razz1

Can't you use the access port for this Logging?

lolachampcar

Spin9k,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree that there are a lot of systems out there and that 5 Hz on the GPS is far from ideal. I've looked into 10 and 20 Hz modules but the price goes WAY up as you said. I also agree that software is everything. I use the AIM GPS stuff on my Kart and love it.

The carrot for me was that most of the data is already being recorded with the DataLogger. I thought it a quick hack to add the GPS and two axis accelerometer to the board and it was. The beacon bit was mainly because I did not like the inherent error in interpolation between two 5 Hz GPS points, even if picked on a very slow (or fast) part of the track.

You are probably correct in that it really is not worth doing. I was just chasing that sub $500 track day system for the average guy even though my cars have Motec and my Karts Aim.