Short Shifter Noise: REAL Solution!
01-14-2007, 04:10 PM
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Short Shifter Noise: a REAL Solution!
Okay, so I've been messing with my AFE shifter to see what makes it work so well and what is the source of the "whirrling" sound.
The source is the gearbox. I used a pre-natal microphone (
don't ask) to isolate the sound and found the source to be inside the gearbox, transmitting through the shifter, itself. It is the naturally occuring sound of the gearbox amplified by the solid shifter, not unlike a tuning fork. At the bottom of the AFE shifter, the yellow Kevlar basket has a hole the same diameter as the hole in the OEM shifter. The difference is, on the OEM shifter the plastic basket raises the lower ball-joint a little over 1/4 inch away from any contacting surfaces. On the AFE, the Kevlar basket and the opening is flush with the lower ball-joint, making the ball-joint and thus, the shifter shaft a contact surface. This makes metal-to-metal contact and resonates the gearbox "whirl" into the cabin.
Busted Myths:
a) The green fuzzy stuff, inside the shift boot, does NOT affect the noise! I drove with and without and did not notice any "real" differences.
b) Loosening the shift **** quiets the noise! This is FALSE! I drove with a **** down tight, without a ****, with the **** 1/2 way screwed down, 2 rotations in, etc. None of these made any REAL impact on muffling the wirling sound.
c) I tried stuffing the console bay (open space with console removed) with rags and foam and this still did nothing significant to silence the slight "whirl."
d) I used 2 "leather" shift boots, layered with a cut-up cotton t-shirt in between them (like a sandwich) to no avail.
What worked?
a) I poped off the plastic basket "cup" from the OEM lower ball-joint and used it on my AFE shifter. This will make the lower portion longer and will not engage reverse. To fix this, I used my dremel and grinded a little more than 1/4" off the bottom of the basket (bottom part that goes into transmission) while ensuring that the lower ball-joint would not be a "surface" area. That is, that there would still be plenty of insulation between the ball-joint and the tranny.
b) I used 3 washers to elevate the (reverse lock-out) plate that goes above the shifter. Each washer was about the height of 2 threads on the bolt. I put the washers UNDER the plate. On the plate, there are two small holes that align with two small "cleats" on the transmission to ensure proper positioning. I made sure to align the holes with the "cleats" and tightened the 3 bolts.
What happened? I drove around for about 15min. What I got is the stock sound of the gearbox, with RP's great shift feel and shorter throw. Basically, the best of both worlds! On top of this, I can tighten my shifter ALL the way down and keep the shape of the shift boot provided by the green fuzzy stuff.
Downsides? I am not an engineer, so if and when my white plastic basket "cup" wears out I'd have to "make" a new one all over again. With the elevated shift plate, reverse is a bit tricky, albiet not difficult, to engage. I have to press down firmly and then "feel" the "tooth" go under the plate. This may be dangerous in the freeway, as the shifter may go into reverse vs. 6th?
Permanent Fixes? I emailed RP to see if he would make a Kevlar basket that encompased the lower ball-joint entirely to insulate it from this metal-to-metal contact. His manufactured part would be of much greater quality and durability than my "make-shift" basket "cup." A crafted piece may also allow the elimination of the washers I am using to lift the shfit plate. Ideally, the washers are not a good idea...
edit: In NO way is this a complaint about RPs product. I stand by my original impression, that it is a wonderful product that enhances the interface bewteen driver and machine. My "suggestion" is only just that. A suggestion that may target the ONE and ONLY "negative" consequence of this crafted piece. If I were given the chance to go back before my purchase, I would definitely buy it again and would recommend it to anyone who wishes to "sharpen" the feel of their 8. I believe with this "fix," RPs shifter could really be called "flawless," a modificaiton without ANY downsides.
The source is the gearbox. I used a pre-natal microphone (
don't ask) to isolate the sound and found the source to be inside the gearbox, transmitting through the shifter, itself. It is the naturally occuring sound of the gearbox amplified by the solid shifter, not unlike a tuning fork. At the bottom of the AFE shifter, the yellow Kevlar basket has a hole the same diameter as the hole in the OEM shifter. The difference is, on the OEM shifter the plastic basket raises the lower ball-joint a little over 1/4 inch away from any contacting surfaces. On the AFE, the Kevlar basket and the opening is flush with the lower ball-joint, making the ball-joint and thus, the shifter shaft a contact surface. This makes metal-to-metal contact and resonates the gearbox "whirl" into the cabin.Busted Myths:
a) The green fuzzy stuff, inside the shift boot, does NOT affect the noise! I drove with and without and did not notice any "real" differences.
b) Loosening the shift **** quiets the noise! This is FALSE! I drove with a **** down tight, without a ****, with the **** 1/2 way screwed down, 2 rotations in, etc. None of these made any REAL impact on muffling the wirling sound.
c) I tried stuffing the console bay (open space with console removed) with rags and foam and this still did nothing significant to silence the slight "whirl."
d) I used 2 "leather" shift boots, layered with a cut-up cotton t-shirt in between them (like a sandwich) to no avail.
What worked?
a) I poped off the plastic basket "cup" from the OEM lower ball-joint and used it on my AFE shifter. This will make the lower portion longer and will not engage reverse. To fix this, I used my dremel and grinded a little more than 1/4" off the bottom of the basket (bottom part that goes into transmission) while ensuring that the lower ball-joint would not be a "surface" area. That is, that there would still be plenty of insulation between the ball-joint and the tranny.
b) I used 3 washers to elevate the (reverse lock-out) plate that goes above the shifter. Each washer was about the height of 2 threads on the bolt. I put the washers UNDER the plate. On the plate, there are two small holes that align with two small "cleats" on the transmission to ensure proper positioning. I made sure to align the holes with the "cleats" and tightened the 3 bolts.
What happened? I drove around for about 15min. What I got is the stock sound of the gearbox, with RP's great shift feel and shorter throw. Basically, the best of both worlds! On top of this, I can tighten my shifter ALL the way down and keep the shape of the shift boot provided by the green fuzzy stuff.
Downsides? I am not an engineer, so if and when my white plastic basket "cup" wears out I'd have to "make" a new one all over again. With the elevated shift plate, reverse is a bit tricky, albiet not difficult, to engage. I have to press down firmly and then "feel" the "tooth" go under the plate. This may be dangerous in the freeway, as the shifter may go into reverse vs. 6th?
Permanent Fixes? I emailed RP to see if he would make a Kevlar basket that encompased the lower ball-joint entirely to insulate it from this metal-to-metal contact. His manufactured part would be of much greater quality and durability than my "make-shift" basket "cup." A crafted piece may also allow the elimination of the washers I am using to lift the shfit plate. Ideally, the washers are not a good idea...
edit: In NO way is this a complaint about RPs product. I stand by my original impression, that it is a wonderful product that enhances the interface bewteen driver and machine. My "suggestion" is only just that. A suggestion that may target the ONE and ONLY "negative" consequence of this crafted piece. If I were given the chance to go back before my purchase, I would definitely buy it again and would recommend it to anyone who wishes to "sharpen" the feel of their 8. I believe with this "fix," RPs shifter could really be called "flawless," a modificaiton without ANY downsides.
Last edited by Phantom Menace; 01-14-2007 at 10:44 PM.
01-14-2007, 05:30 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by 4 years to Supercharge
Sounds like you can't stand the little bit of noise that the AFE shifter makes. 
I'd like to hear how it holds up.
Is the stock basket different material than Richard's?
I'd like to hear how it holds up.
Is the stock basket different material than Richard's?
Yes, they are different. The OEM is some kind of plastic, maybe PVC. RP uses top-shelf Kevlar, which is known for abrasion resistence and durability. All-in-all, I expect it to hold up as long as the OEM shifter. My only major concern is the shift plate "shifting" or moving and going into reverse at speed.
I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes...
Last edited by Phantom Menace; 01-14-2007 at 10:45 PM.
01-14-2007, 06:55 PM
#4
Rotary Crawfish
Can you or do you have any pict's of said plastic cup? If it is like the 89 rx-7 that crumbled on me one day I had to make a new part out of PVC pipe bushing.
01-14-2007, 10:22 PM
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Look at the very bottom ends of the shifters. AFE now makes theirs in a yellow, Kevlar material. The OEM is a white pastic piece. The one on the right (black shifter with white cup) is the OEM shifter, while the one on the left (silver shifter with black cup) is RPs.
Last edited by Phantom Menace; 01-14-2007 at 10:26 PM.
01-14-2007, 11:01 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Phantom Menace
Not so much that I couldn't stand it, but was wondering if it was "necessary" in order to have the benefits of the AFE shift feel. I feel that the answer is no. That you CAN have the the added feel of RPs shifter with the noiseless benefits of the OEM shifter.
Yes, they are different. The OEM is some kind of plastic, maybe PVC. RP uses top-shelf Kevlar, which is known for abrasion resistence and durability. All-in-all, I expect it to hold up as long as the OEM shifter. My only major concern is the shift plate "shifting" or moving and going into reverse at speed. I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes...
Yes, they are different. The OEM is some kind of plastic, maybe PVC. RP uses top-shelf Kevlar, which is known for abrasion resistence and durability. All-in-all, I expect it to hold up as long as the OEM shifter. My only major concern is the shift plate "shifting" or moving and going into reverse at speed.
I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes...great job. pretty sure the stock ball is delrin.. as were the first ones on the afe shifter... but the different design is a very interesting find...
and damn you are ****!!!! thanks!!!!
for the greater good..
beers
01-14-2007, 11:08 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Phantom Menace
Look at the very bottom ends of the shifters. AFE now makes theirs in a yellow, Kevlar material. The OEM is a white pastic piece. The one on the right (black shifter with white cup) is the OEM shifter, while the one on the left (silver shifter with black cup) is RPs.
ah,
you have the old shifter and ball. mine makes a bit of noise also, and is getting worse with age.
but rp sent me a new kevlar ball to replace the old one and the design is the same as the stock...
so it should fix the problem... send rp a request for the new kevlar ball....
i will get a photo up as soon as the batts charge...
beers
01-14-2007, 11:14 PM
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Swoope,
No, that's not mine. I got that pic from Gomez. Mine came with the Kevlar but the opening was flush with the lower ball-joint. That is the ball-joint finished the curvature of the end piece. I emailed RP and am waiting for a response.
LOL! Yeah, I am ****. Especially when it comes to this car. It's a "curse." I'm also very curious by nature. Thanks for the comments and please, do post a pic when your camera is ready?
No, that's not mine. I got that pic from Gomez. Mine came with the Kevlar but the opening was flush with the lower ball-joint. That is the ball-joint finished the curvature of the end piece. I emailed RP and am waiting for a response.
LOL! Yeah, I am ****. Especially when it comes to this car. It's a "curse." I'm also very curious by nature. Thanks for the comments and please, do post a pic when your camera is ready?
01-14-2007, 11:43 PM
#9
i think i am lost now... you are not talking about the part that goes into the trany???? the black or white delrin or kevar piece???
or did you change the mounting basket / pivot point, the upper basket that the shifter piviots on?
pm me on this... thx.
beers
or did you change the mounting basket / pivot point, the upper basket that the shifter piviots on?
pm me on this... thx.
beers
01-15-2007, 12:01 AM
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Thanks for the pic, Swoope!
Yes, the RP one is taller but the ball-joint sits lower and deeper inside the "cup." It sits to where a portionof the metal ball-joint circumfrance is flush with the outer edge of the Kevlar. If the cup had no hole or sat higher inside the "cup" it would not contact the metal of the tranny and not resonate.
Yes, the RP one is taller but the ball-joint sits lower and deeper inside the "cup." It sits to where a portionof the metal ball-joint circumfrance is flush with the outer edge of the Kevlar. If the cup had no hole or sat higher inside the "cup" it would not contact the metal of the tranny and not resonate.
01-15-2007, 03:10 AM
#14
I love people working on these things it brings new ideas to the surface. There are times when this improves the product. This isn't one of those times, however it's good to keep up the mind and work the hands. That'll keep you young.
We all know that the shifter itself has no moving parts in it, thus the 'whirling' noise can't be coming from within itself. The gearbox has dozens of rotating parts that touch each other. After all that is its lot in life.
There is one very strange thing and that is 99% of the cars have no real noise after putting in the shifter. Having said that, I did hear noise like you describe from my car for a short period of time. This was after someone else had done some work on the car and had driven it for awhile. I was alarmed by this but it stopped after two days. I hate things that fix themselves because you never know what was wrong. If someone had told me this story I would not believe it, but it happened to me.
I don't know what did that and it remains as big of a mystery as to how the hurricanes always know where the trailer parks are. Or why the drivers side wiper wears out first.
First thing you missed that should be basic to your thoughts is that the lower end of the shaft will not touch the bottom, even if you took the lower bushing off completely. Think about it for a second, if it contacted the bottom how would you be able to push down for reverse? The shaft would be down as far as it could ever go.
Next. The stock bushing is different then ours, as is the pivot basket. The geometry in both of these parts has been re-engineered as part of the overall design purpose. You should not try to change these things as it screws other things up, hense the need for putting washers under the plate. That then eliminates the reverse lockout. It also does not allow the 5-6 change gate to operate properly. It also allows the pivot basket and shifter itself to ride up and not use the spring properly.
We know that the placement of the plate is sensitive as there have been times that a small filing of the tab is necessary to get into high gear. That is a function of Mazda tolorances. We did a lot of field testing to arrive at the final spec where it is machined to now.
If you think that moving the plate up is a good idea then put a spacer under the tower, then the lockout will work but still have other problems. Mazdaspeed did it that way and we looked at it and in fact built our first prototype that way. It is an inferior design. I will not go into the reasons why right here. The first Beta tester was a club member who had the Mazdaspeed unit in his car. That is why we chose to use him. BTW he sold the Mazdaspeed unit and kept ours.
Using the washers is very dangerous.
Now for a current update along these lines. There were 6 units that got away from us in December with a lower bushing too thin on the bottom. This does not cause the problem described herein but has a possible shorter life. Anyone who bought a shifter in Dec or early Jan can return it for a replacement. You may never have a problem and you can always get a new part installed forever. These units are warranteed for as long as you own it. If you never have a problem of loose shifting then don't take it out.
Phantom Menace, you will have to return your shifter to get a new lower bushing installed no matter what. Using it your way is too dangerous to continue even if it helped any issue you may have had. Also if you can't get it to your satisfaction we will return your money.
As far as that damn green fuzzy thing goes I don't know what goes on. But it has been proven many times by several owners in different parts of the world. It is a fact that a customer in Australia who screwed around with it and told us about it.
I don't mind you trying things but I really don't want to see you running around with no reverse lock out. Send it back and get a good lower bushing on it, try it again and if it still bothers you we'll buy it back.
We want you to like it, we do everything we can think of and never refuse to service our shifters free of charge. If we thought your design would work believe me we would make the parts for you. But as pointed out above this is not a direction that makes any sense.
Thanks, Richard
We all know that the shifter itself has no moving parts in it, thus the 'whirling' noise can't be coming from within itself. The gearbox has dozens of rotating parts that touch each other. After all that is its lot in life.
There is one very strange thing and that is 99% of the cars have no real noise after putting in the shifter. Having said that, I did hear noise like you describe from my car for a short period of time. This was after someone else had done some work on the car and had driven it for awhile. I was alarmed by this but it stopped after two days. I hate things that fix themselves because you never know what was wrong. If someone had told me this story I would not believe it, but it happened to me.
I don't know what did that and it remains as big of a mystery as to how the hurricanes always know where the trailer parks are. Or why the drivers side wiper wears out first.
First thing you missed that should be basic to your thoughts is that the lower end of the shaft will not touch the bottom, even if you took the lower bushing off completely. Think about it for a second, if it contacted the bottom how would you be able to push down for reverse? The shaft would be down as far as it could ever go.
Next. The stock bushing is different then ours, as is the pivot basket. The geometry in both of these parts has been re-engineered as part of the overall design purpose. You should not try to change these things as it screws other things up, hense the need for putting washers under the plate. That then eliminates the reverse lockout. It also does not allow the 5-6 change gate to operate properly. It also allows the pivot basket and shifter itself to ride up and not use the spring properly.
We know that the placement of the plate is sensitive as there have been times that a small filing of the tab is necessary to get into high gear. That is a function of Mazda tolorances. We did a lot of field testing to arrive at the final spec where it is machined to now.
If you think that moving the plate up is a good idea then put a spacer under the tower, then the lockout will work but still have other problems. Mazdaspeed did it that way and we looked at it and in fact built our first prototype that way. It is an inferior design. I will not go into the reasons why right here. The first Beta tester was a club member who had the Mazdaspeed unit in his car. That is why we chose to use him. BTW he sold the Mazdaspeed unit and kept ours.
Using the washers is very dangerous.
Now for a current update along these lines. There were 6 units that got away from us in December with a lower bushing too thin on the bottom. This does not cause the problem described herein but has a possible shorter life. Anyone who bought a shifter in Dec or early Jan can return it for a replacement. You may never have a problem and you can always get a new part installed forever. These units are warranteed for as long as you own it. If you never have a problem of loose shifting then don't take it out.
Phantom Menace, you will have to return your shifter to get a new lower bushing installed no matter what. Using it your way is too dangerous to continue even if it helped any issue you may have had. Also if you can't get it to your satisfaction we will return your money.
As far as that damn green fuzzy thing goes I don't know what goes on. But it has been proven many times by several owners in different parts of the world. It is a fact that a customer in Australia who screwed around with it and told us about it.
I don't mind you trying things but I really don't want to see you running around with no reverse lock out. Send it back and get a good lower bushing on it, try it again and if it still bothers you we'll buy it back.
We want you to like it, we do everything we can think of and never refuse to service our shifters free of charge. If we thought your design would work believe me we would make the parts for you. But as pointed out above this is not a direction that makes any sense.
Thanks, Richard
01-16-2007, 11:10 AM
#16
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Hey Richard!
I got a short shifter from you in Dec. If I pulled it and took a look, is there a way to visibly determine if it is one of the 6 with the thin bushing?
Also, thanks for your whole write-up! I'd hate to see folks go hacking away at a great product. I did a big write-up after my install because I had the noises and was able to get rid of them with some relatively harmless trial and error. I wrote at the time "No guarantees! This is just what worked for me!", and I'm still not sure any of my testings were actually what "cured" the problem for me.
Maybe the shifter just needed broken in a little bit and that happened while I was fooling around testing things!
Maybe the grenn fuzzy shifted to a different position and corrected the problem!
Maybe the shift **** got tightened to a different position!
Maybe this car "does" have the ability to adjust to changes in it's environment! Either through the advanced ECU...Or maybe the RX-8 does have a "soul" and self-healing powers like some have claimed!
Maybe radioactive waste from Government testing has damaged the bushings causing the problem!
Maybe aliens came down...!
OK...Maybe I'm just being and IDIOT!!
Anyway, I'd like to know about the visual test for those Dec. bushings.
Thanks
I got a short shifter from you in Dec. If I pulled it and took a look, is there a way to visibly determine if it is one of the 6 with the thin bushing?
Also, thanks for your whole write-up! I'd hate to see folks go hacking away at a great product. I did a big write-up after my install because I had the noises and was able to get rid of them with some relatively harmless trial and error. I wrote at the time "No guarantees! This is just what worked for me!", and I'm still not sure any of my testings were actually what "cured" the problem for me.
Maybe the shifter just needed broken in a little bit and that happened while I was fooling around testing things!
Maybe the grenn fuzzy shifted to a different position and corrected the problem!
Maybe the shift **** got tightened to a different position!
Maybe this car "does" have the ability to adjust to changes in it's environment! Either through the advanced ECU...Or maybe the RX-8 does have a "soul" and self-healing powers like some have claimed!
Maybe radioactive waste from Government testing has damaged the bushings causing the problem!
Maybe aliens came down...!
OK...Maybe I'm just being and IDIOT!!
Anyway, I'd like to know about the visual test for those Dec. bushings.
Thanks
01-18-2007, 08:58 AM
#18
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I have had the shifter installed for about a year.. I got some noise but oddly enough it's only in the even number gears (2,4,6.. The ones when the shifter is in the downwards position).
Not really all the annoying, if I hear it I just rest my hand on the shifter and the noise goes away for the most part.
I will be putting royal purple oil in the transmission soon, I hear that one side benefit is less transmission noise, maybe that will help.
Not really all the annoying, if I hear it I just rest my hand on the shifter and the noise goes away for the most part.
I will be putting royal purple oil in the transmission soon, I hear that one side benefit is less transmission noise, maybe that will help.
01-19-2007, 01:11 AM
#19
Originally Posted by CURED RX8
Hey Richard!
I got a short shifter from you in Dec. If I pulled it and took a look, is there a way to visibly determine if it is one of the 6 with the thin bushing?
Also, thanks for your whole write-up! I'd hate to see folks go hacking away at a great product. I did a big write-up after my install because I had the noises and was able to get rid of them with some relatively harmless trial and error. I wrote at the time "No guarantees! This is just what worked for me!", and I'm still not sure any of my testings were actually what "cured" the problem for me.
Maybe the shifter just needed broken in a little bit and that happened while I was fooling around testing things!
Maybe the grenn fuzzy shifted to a different position and corrected the problem!
Maybe the shift **** got tightened to a different position!
Maybe this car "does" have the ability to adjust to changes in it's environment! Either through the advanced ECU...Or maybe the RX-8 does have a "soul" and self-healing powers like some have claimed!
Maybe radioactive waste from Government testing has damaged the bushings causing the problem!
Maybe aliens came down...!
OK...Maybe I'm just being and IDIOT!!
Anyway, I'd like to know about the visual test for those Dec. bushings.
Thanks
I got a short shifter from you in Dec. If I pulled it and took a look, is there a way to visibly determine if it is one of the 6 with the thin bushing?
Also, thanks for your whole write-up! I'd hate to see folks go hacking away at a great product. I did a big write-up after my install because I had the noises and was able to get rid of them with some relatively harmless trial and error. I wrote at the time "No guarantees! This is just what worked for me!", and I'm still not sure any of my testings were actually what "cured" the problem for me.
Maybe the shifter just needed broken in a little bit and that happened while I was fooling around testing things!
Maybe the grenn fuzzy shifted to a different position and corrected the problem!
Maybe the shift **** got tightened to a different position!
Maybe this car "does" have the ability to adjust to changes in it's environment! Either through the advanced ECU...Or maybe the RX-8 does have a "soul" and self-healing powers like some have claimed!
Maybe radioactive waste from Government testing has damaged the bushings causing the problem!
Maybe aliens came down...!
OK...Maybe I'm just being and IDIOT!!
Anyway, I'd like to know about the visual test for those Dec. bushings.
Thanks
if you have the yellow one in the big photo. that is the correct kevlar one..
if you got it from richard in dec. you are fine..
beers
01-19-2007, 07:02 AM
#20
You can't tell by looking at it. I know who has them and will contact them via PM. We did two already so your odds are getting better. It may not make any difference they could run forever without problems. If it didn't crack when pressed on it will work fine for years as the thin part isn't a wear surface.
By "pressed on" I mean here in the shop, not when you install it.
By "pressed on" I mean here in the shop, not when you install it.
01-21-2007, 12:39 AM
#21
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I sent my shifter back to RP. He refitted my shifter with a new and thicker kevlar cup. I got it back in a few days and it is now back in my car.
Now it is what every Mod should be...unequivocally PERFECT!
Thanks RP, for helping me out and understanding! Your dedication to providing excellent customer service is exemplary! You stand by your product the way I have NEVER seen! You're tops!
Now it is what every Mod should be...unequivocally PERFECT!
Thanks RP, for helping me out and understanding! Your dedication to providing excellent customer service is exemplary! You stand by your product the way I have NEVER seen! You're tops!
01-23-2007, 03:26 PM
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ok, so i just installed the afe short shifter and not to sould rude or ungrateful or anything, but i dont really know if id call it an improvement. maybe im not seeing something. sure the shifts are shorter now, but there's more resistance. the "notching" feel that was present with the stock shifter is now amplified". im wondering if the increaded resistance negates the shorter shifting distance...
01-23-2007, 05:37 PM
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I found that my outer rubber boot had slid off of the white ring of the shifter. This can cause a lot more noise to enter the cabin. I must have gotten a little bit of oil in the boot fitting. I'd double check this.
P.S. I also just put RP maxgear 75w90 in this weekend...almost took all the noise away!! The whine I used to have while cruising at certain rpms/loads, is almost completely gone! Try this before you give up on the SS.
P.S. I also just put RP maxgear 75w90 in this weekend...almost took all the noise away!! The whine I used to have while cruising at certain rpms/loads, is almost completely gone! Try this before you give up on the SS.
01-23-2007, 05:45 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by extra Phil
ok, so i just installed the afe short shifter and not to sould rude or ungrateful or anything, but i dont really know if id call it an improvement. maybe im not seeing something. sure the shifts are shorter now, but there's more resistance. the "notching" feel that was present with the stock shifter is now amplified". im wondering if the increaded resistance negates the shorter shifting distance...