LiL BenNy

hey, im not sure if this is the right spot so.. sorry if its not..

Ive been planning on getting an 8 soon and i just looked over the evo and kinda started liking it... im just curious... what do you guys believe this cars potential is? like after FI and all what expectations could i expect? anywhere close to runnings 11-12s 1/4 miles or am i dreaming? thanks..

Omicron

We've got one guy (Charles R. Hill) who's in the mid-12s now and expects to be in the high 11s with a 55 shot of Nitrous... so the potential is definitely there.

brillo

I think its better to couch that question in terms of reliable potential. Sure you can get a 10sec 8, but that is going to require so much work you might as well buy a new car.

I think what your asking is, how much power could you get reliability with a bolt on FI and not have to pull the engine to strength the internals. My guess on that would be low 13's. Past that, your asking for trouble. I think the car's drivetrain (Tranny/Diff/driveshaft) can handle about 280-300RWHP with no real issues. I'm personally aiming for stock FD power, thats fast enough.

Charles has done some amazing stuff, but I think even he will admit he's pushing the limits of the car.

wakeech

there actually is no "limit" in the sense that running 11's is as absolutely fast as it'll go. the only limit is in how ingenious you are at building a really hard motor, and to how much work and/or money you can afford to dump into building a really hard motor.

RXE16T

Give it a few years and I reckon somebody will build a turbo nitrous Renesis powered 8 running in the 9s.......... it's all about development and constant evolution.

rx8wannahave

What he said...

I personally, when and IF I get the RX8...LOL, hope to one day end up with a 350HP 2900 pound car. That would produce some very NICE speed...(at least 300HP to be a little more realistic but what do I know, never messed around with a car before)

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Omicron overstated the level at which I now find my performance. I am currently running 13.7@103 mph on the stock tires/wheels with a handful of simple bolt-ons(strap-ons?). I have used my 55 h.p. shot of nitrous to cut about .9-1.1 seconds off of my e.t. in the past so I think next spring I will be seeing some 12.7-12.8's at 112 mph, still on stock tires/wheels. The next step in the mods involves a new piggyback ECU, dyno tuning, and increases to 75 and 100 h.p. shots. Along with good tires I am confident that we will see the 11 second range next summer, if not sooner. I didn't want to let anyone be mistaken or overconfident with Omi's jumbling of some numbers. The thing is that he and I have discussed in great detail where I am now and where I expect to be in the near future and he mixed up a few timelines, that's all. I agree with Brillo's point but I think the questions about the driveline revolve around technique. First, I know I have a bit of headroom left because I have really hammered the rear more than a few times with wheelhop during some low 13 second runs. It doesn't happen too often anymore with the RB swaybar but sometimes I let 'er fly just to see how much abuse the diff can take. It is holding up quite well, so far. On the transmission I think there are two factors at play. The first involves launch technique and the second is shift speed. After trying several different approaches I have recorded no difference in the 60' times or 0-60 mph with each approach. I launch at 5k rpm's and let the clutch pedal out quickly but do not "dump" it. I also do not try to "bang" the gears as the triple-cone synchros get up/down to speed pretty quicky if I just allow them to do their job and, as such, I end up being able to shift pretty darn quick in the process. This all reduces driveline shock and is probably why I have yet to experience any trouble with my trans or differential. I do expect to see some failures in the near future especially when I get to the low 12's-high 11's. By sticking with street tires I can forestall the damage as long as possible.

Let's also be forthcoming with Benny in pointing out that my times are all measured by the G-Tech. However, as long as I keep beating the vehicles I expect to based on the readings from the Tech, I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy.

Charles

dfwaltima

I think that reliabilty do come with a lot of tuning... a lot of people out there fail becuase they just do something, but not another thing to support it.. from experience you can get a car that will run quick, and still have the reliability to drive it daily, but then again it all depends on how you drive it daily also.. if you stomp on it all the time, then dont expect the car to last..

LiL BenNy

thanks for all the responses...

to Charles R. Hill, you said you run 13.7's stock with a RB swaybar and thats it? arent the rx8's listed as 13.5 stock? or is that more bs?

RX8_Ownz

I've heard a 8 runs 14.5ish stock.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The very first time I did a run in the RX-8 I got something like a 15.4. That was under a number of less-than-ideal conditions. I think I then got into the mid 14's as mentioned above. With a number of bolt-ons I now get 13.7 rather consistently (and 22 mpg) on stock tires/wheels. Looking at the data from my G-Tech I tend to launch very consistent and my passes only vary by a tenth, or so.

With the nitrous having cut about a full second from my previous run times I expect that I will now run about 12.7(still on stock rollers) in the 1/4 mile. In addition, I am currently deciding which piggyback to install so I can raise the level of nitrous boost I am now using from 55 to 75, and then 100, h.p. levels. With those levels I should at least crack into the 11's as long as the drivetrain holds out. It would be nice if it can. BTW, in the latest issue of Turbo mag the Acosta RX-8 is said to have the stock trans bolted up to that 20B they have in the car. Who believes that?

Charles

Icemastr

There is someone with an RX-8 running high 6's in the 1/4 so their is definitely potential there. I don't know of any Evolutions running in the 6's :D

rx8wannahave

As far as I'm concerned...Charles Hill is the go to guy for RX8 modding advice, I can't wait for the day I make changes...LOL, still waiting on my 8...LOL

Charles...I'll be in touch...LOL, THANKS for playing with your 8!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Now that I am moving on to messing with the ECU I have been speaking with Genom and Maurice(Canzoomer) about help with designing a set of maps that automatically switch over to a nitrous-optimized secondary map when the nitrous is actually spraying. This way, a primary map can be built that optimizes the performance sans nitrous and a second map for the nitrous. Great performance under both conditions will result. Plus, no need for dash-mounted screens to let anyone know just how quick your modded RX-8 really is. After speaking with both of them I am now VERY confident that with a 100 h.p. shot, decent streetable tires, and a good dyno tune I crack the 11 second barrier.

C,mon Ice, you're gonna get some false hope going by failing to point out that the RX-8 you mention has a 20B in it and the only thing that makes it an RX-8 is the body shell.

I forgot to mention that it seems others are growing impatient with waiting for a turbo kit as I am now leading a few people through the nitrous install process. I hope they are as happy and successful with their installs as I am. When my Evo8-driving buddy of mine and I open our hoods at local cruises guess where the crowd congregates? For some strange reason teenagers seem to think that the size of the tank is an indicator of the level of boost added. Why would that be? Aren't we all told that size doesn't matter?

Charles

Icemastr

With turbos size does matter :D

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Touche.

Charles :p

Mafia

soooo your wanting a street car that can run 11s? use it as a daily driver?

dmp

It's nice to see people online being forthcoming - that's rare! to you, Charles. Either way, improving ~ 1 second IS a huge deal.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

That's why I say the RX-8 is a wolf in sheep's clothing. For around $4K I have taken over 2 seconds off my 1/4 mile time and improved the handling and braking, as well. This car may not be too scary off the showroom floor but for those of us seeking thrills it is a willing participant.

Charles

Virgil

All I want is a balanced car, a handler, fast enough in the straight, and a managable, reliable car as well.

I think the extra 60 or so HP that the greddy kit offers is perfect. I am gonna wait until reinforced engine parts come out for the motor itself, like apex seals. ALso, I need to aquire the car as well . Those JIC Coilovers are looking really good. Rienforce the chassis with a rollcage and some strut bars and maybe I might go overboard and so chassis mods under the car to stiffen it even more, make myself a GT-Spec Street car! I plan to take my time and make a very JDM true car, Mazdaspeed Body kit (which looks like it was MADE for intercoolers. Also, cool down that rotary as much as freakin possible with radiator and better oil cooler. Basically play it safe, wether the renesis is cooler or not a turbo generates a lot of heat on a motor and heat kills motors, simple as that. Plus, the cooler it is the more HP you can squeeze out of it.

Also, anyone know were I can find me a 4 point strut tower bar like on the limited JDM Mazdaspeed RX-8?

bureau13

If you're looking at stuff like new apex seals as a necessary part of moving to a turbo, you're talking about a much bigger job, and much costlier as well. I'm not trying to insult you, I just don't know your background...but new apex seals means you're pulling the motor, tearing it down, etc. And unless you're talking about something like Ianetti ceramic seals (mucho, mucho dinero) then there really is no improved replacement. Don't believe the 3mm seal hype, rebuilders just use these so they don't have to get new rotors. I don't believe there is an apex seal that's been created that is truly impervious to detonation, so without proper tuning you're hosed no matter what you use. Furthermore, if you elect not to beef up your motor internals and you blow it up, what do you have to do to fix it? Get a rebuild! Pay me now or pay me later, my advice would be to not bother with a rebuild now, and if god forbid you do end up needing one, by that time rebuilders may have learned a few new tricks for the Renesis.

As for the strut tower bar on the JDM Mazdaspeed car, you can buy it now...but it won't fit. The master cylinder brace is on the wrong side for US models.

jds

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Bureau, you and I have the same approach. Slowly reach the threshhold of the internals and R+R the engine when needed. As you say, why bother doing it more than you have to? The latest issue of "Import Tuner" has a small article with Amemiya. In it he says he is using all stock internals in his Renesis, including the 2MM apexes, and is very satisfied with the numbers he is seeing. Like everyone else, Amemiya is also stating that with 10:1 CR the tuning is the key and we need to watch our temps and A/F ratios.

There is one comment he made regarding H.P. applications that I have relied on since day one; when doing performance upgrades on any engine, especially the rotary, one must be sure to listen to how the engine sounds under various loads. And not just obvious stuff, either. A well-running engine sounds in perfect harmony with good resonance but a poorly tuned engine sounds much less musical. The same holds true for engine vibrations. When we pay too much attention to dyno sheets we sometimes forget how to use our other senses to help us tune our cars. As an example, I recently switched from a K+N air filter to the Blitz SUS filter. The intake noise was lessened dramatically but the sounds that are still made are much more harmonious. At the same time, the engine runs better and the idle is much smoother than it was even when stock. In general, the engine sounds much sweeter.

BTW, in my nitrous testing I have subjected the Renesis to much higher levels of abuse and detonation than any FD could have handled and the seals are still perfect. I am confident that it can also handle FI and nitrous together.

CRH

Rotoman

Quick question, the apex seals on the renesis are they one or two piece, because on mazdaspeed motorsports site they have Ceramic 2-piece 2mm apex seals highlighted in red in rebuild parts. Is that a new style or not.

Rotoman

Has anyone any info on this subject

Virgil

I don't have a lot of rotary experiance, I am mostly going off the paranoid antics of the older RX7 Twin Turbo so I may be over reacting. My approach is more of a build it up inside then consentrate on power.

No, I won't need 3mm seals ever but some nice cermic seals might be the way to go if the Renesis ones give out. Better to break it once.

The radiator and oil cooler will be tackled as support mods for the Turbo, to be safe. The RE kit is the Greddy kit essentially and if they were adament about putting those parts on them I will to. I think you can get a sports radiator and oil cooler from Mazdaspeed motorsports in a NR-A kit that also comes with brake pads and some other stuff for 2,200, I think maybe even a roll cage to (not sure were to look, I only saw it mentioned in an article). PWR radiators makes a, well dur, a radiator for the 8 as well.