Racing Beat v. Borla (again)
05-20-2004, 05:48 PM
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Racing Beat v. Borla (again)
Because I'm bored (just finished a big project), I'll post this:
The good folks at Racing Beat told me that their next batch of exhausts won't be ready until mid-June. (They were saying late May). I am on the list. There will be 50 of them and the list is almost full, or full.
I was trying to pick between Borla and RB and I read every thread on the subject I could find. I also picked the brains of various vendors who should know. And I listened to most of the .wav files I could find.
The strongest opinion came from one vendor, which sells both types of exhaust and has specialized in rotary engines for maybe 20 years. I will omit the name for fear of embarrassing them.
That nice person told me that the Racing Beat exhaust is a bit louder than the Borla. My review of various threads generally seemed to indicate the opposite, but some posters have also said the RB is louder. (I know that they are both pretty quiet.)
Also, confirming what the various mfr. web site pictures seem to show, the vendor said that the RB unit appears to be of higher quality (welds, flanges, polish, tips, etc.) than the Borla.
With these things said, I understand that the Borla is a fine exhaust and I'm not trying to put it down; I'd love to have one. I'm just repeating one vendor's opinion and saying that, having agonized over the choice, I am going to wait for the Racing Beat, myself. I just think the pictures and descriptions suggest that it is very well thought-out.
My two cents.
The good folks at Racing Beat told me that their next batch of exhausts won't be ready until mid-June. (They were saying late May). I am on the list. There will be 50 of them and the list is almost full, or full.
I was trying to pick between Borla and RB and I read every thread on the subject I could find. I also picked the brains of various vendors who should know. And I listened to most of the .wav files I could find.
The strongest opinion came from one vendor, which sells both types of exhaust and has specialized in rotary engines for maybe 20 years. I will omit the name for fear of embarrassing them.
That nice person told me that the Racing Beat exhaust is a bit louder than the Borla. My review of various threads generally seemed to indicate the opposite, but some posters have also said the RB is louder. (I know that they are both pretty quiet.)
Also, confirming what the various mfr. web site pictures seem to show, the vendor said that the RB unit appears to be of higher quality (welds, flanges, polish, tips, etc.) than the Borla.
With these things said, I understand that the Borla is a fine exhaust and I'm not trying to put it down; I'd love to have one. I'm just repeating one vendor's opinion and saying that, having agonized over the choice, I am going to wait for the Racing Beat, myself. I just think the pictures and descriptions suggest that it is very well thought-out.
My two cents.
05-20-2004, 06:44 PM
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With a million mile warranty from a company that isn't going away anytime soon, I would guess Borla's build quality is good enough.
Personally I would not base my decision on build quality for these two exhausts because it is more than likely a non-issue.
You obviously think both are made well simply the RB is made better. If true, the difference is probably superfluous.
Mr. Wigggles
Personally I would not base my decision on build quality for these two exhausts because it is more than likely a non-issue.
You obviously think both are made well simply the RB is made better. If true, the difference is probably superfluous.
Mr. Wigggles
05-20-2004, 09:34 PM
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They both reportedly sound good but not too loud, they both are well made, they both cost roughly the same....I guess you gotta base your decision on something! It doesn't seem like you can go wrong either way.
I would like to see some definitive weights of all three (Borla, RB and stock). There were some reports that the RB was about as heavy as stock, and I am pretty sure I've read that the Borla is quite a bit lighter than stock, but I don't think I've ever seen anything definite on the subject.
jds
EDIT: Never mind on the weights. See this thread.
I would like to see some definitive weights of all three (Borla, RB and stock). There were some reports that the RB was about as heavy as stock, and I am pretty sure I've read that the Borla is quite a bit lighter than stock, but I don't think I've ever seen anything definite on the subject.
jds
EDIT: Never mind on the weights. See this thread.
Last edited by bureau13; 05-20-2004 at 09:41 PM.
05-20-2004, 11:14 PM
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The Baller was down on Borla for a long time, the others just looked better, better finish, but after hearing them all and living with the Borla......the Borla makes music, the kind that never grows old. You never have to turn on the bad Bose system again.
It really does sound the best.
It really does sound the best.
05-20-2004, 11:28 PM
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Hello, I'm new here so I thought I'd introduce myself a little bit first. I'm a professional mechanic that specializes in high performance. I don't own an 8, yet, but am considering it as a future option. I do own two 1st gen 7's both of which I've owned less than two years. I'm big time into Thunderbird SC's, I have three, which were the '89-'95 models with the Eaton supercharged 3.8 V6. I built one into the 12's at 3800 lbs so I've done a thing or two with late model performance cars. I've built many hot cars in my time and will probably always do so. I'm not here to play know-it-all on this board but I am very knowledgeable on the subject and as I've poked around here I've seen several posts where I can offer some advice. If the majority appreciates it great, but if I start getting flamed because I don't own an 8 or some such junk I'll just take off without any ado.
I've had a Borla on my fast Supercoupe for many years now and have worked under a few other makes with Borlas. I'd like to add some comments.
Weight:
They are very light systems. being as they are stainless and won't rust out Borla uses very thin walled tubing. On my SC the wieght difference was dramatic, over 45 lbs. but stock it had a large center mount resonator and two rear mufflers. With the Borla it went to one large center muffler and tailpipes only.
Sound:
I've never heard a Borla on any car that didn't sound excellent, but without cats or other extra exhaust components such as resonators they get very loud. After I installed long tube headers without cats the sound was too loud. It makes it hard to drive fast without causing unwanted attention, cops, kids in Hondas, nieghbors, etc. Keep this in mind if you plan on running high-flow cats and mid pipes etc. with your Borla cat-back.
Durability:
Well the shell on mine recently delaminated from the internal framework on the bottom center. This system has about 100K on it. At 2200 RPM it hits a resonance frequency that turns the muffler into a exhaust note loudspeaker that is directly under the car. I have to avoid an 400 RPM spread as much as possible, this is also the speed limit area for my car in 5th-O/D which sucks. I plan on sending in to Borla soon along with my purchase documentation to see what they do about this. They reserve the right to refuse if they determine it's been physically damaged. There are a few scrape marks along the bottom so I'll see how concerned they are about the million mile warranty on an out of production system. In any case they aren't indestructable and eventually can develop problems as mine has. Either way I have to foot the bill for all shipping even if they refuse to warranty it and I want it back.
What I will do from now on is have a system built for future plans. Useing lite wieght stainless components would be perferred but with more sound reducing ability than what the Borla cat backs give.
Vernon
I've had a Borla on my fast Supercoupe for many years now and have worked under a few other makes with Borlas. I'd like to add some comments.
Weight:
They are very light systems. being as they are stainless and won't rust out Borla uses very thin walled tubing. On my SC the wieght difference was dramatic, over 45 lbs. but stock it had a large center mount resonator and two rear mufflers. With the Borla it went to one large center muffler and tailpipes only.
Sound:
I've never heard a Borla on any car that didn't sound excellent, but without cats or other extra exhaust components such as resonators they get very loud. After I installed long tube headers without cats the sound was too loud. It makes it hard to drive fast without causing unwanted attention, cops, kids in Hondas, nieghbors, etc. Keep this in mind if you plan on running high-flow cats and mid pipes etc. with your Borla cat-back.
Durability:
Well the shell on mine recently delaminated from the internal framework on the bottom center. This system has about 100K on it. At 2200 RPM it hits a resonance frequency that turns the muffler into a exhaust note loudspeaker that is directly under the car. I have to avoid an 400 RPM spread as much as possible, this is also the speed limit area for my car in 5th-O/D which sucks. I plan on sending in to Borla soon along with my purchase documentation to see what they do about this. They reserve the right to refuse if they determine it's been physically damaged. There are a few scrape marks along the bottom so I'll see how concerned they are about the million mile warranty on an out of production system. In any case they aren't indestructable and eventually can develop problems as mine has. Either way I have to foot the bill for all shipping even if they refuse to warranty it and I want it back.
What I will do from now on is have a system built for future plans. Useing lite wieght stainless components would be perferred but with more sound reducing ability than what the Borla cat backs give.
Vernon
Last edited by NewRXr; 05-20-2004 at 11:31 PM.
05-20-2004, 11:50 PM
#7
wow,
i had the first 89 supercoupe in va. what a cool car. lost it in a divorce. it was black and zesty.
i think i ordered it 6months before it went into production.
you need to ride in the 8.. kind of the same thing does everything well. just 1k lbs lighter. and i think more room in back seat.
also had an 83 turbo coupe.
beers
i had the first 89 supercoupe in va. what a cool car. lost it in a divorce. it was black and zesty.
i think i ordered it 6months before it went into production.
you need to ride in the 8.. kind of the same thing does everything well. just 1k lbs lighter. and i think more room in back seat.
also had an 83 turbo coupe.
beers
05-20-2004, 11:56 PM
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Swoope... what excellent taste in cars. The only better thing you could have said was that you owned a '69 GT 500 or an '83 Grand National. Damn that turbo Buick V6 is a beast!
05-21-2004, 12:28 AM
#9
i worked payed my college by working on shelbys and ac's in austin. a bit of street racing helped.
drove a 64 cobra from nj to texas with no starter. lots of planning involved.
the 69 gt 500 i worked on was a convertable. it was sinking in the middle. doors didnt fit right. rust is bad.
i think i still can tell you every size bolt inside a small block ford.
beers
john stewart
btw, when i got out of school a ford friend of mine had 10 cammer motors in his garage. i think he retiered on that.
drove a 64 cobra from nj to texas with no starter. lots of planning involved.
the 69 gt 500 i worked on was a convertable. it was sinking in the middle. doors didnt fit right. rust is bad.
i think i still can tell you every size bolt inside a small block ford.
beers
john stewart
btw, when i got out of school a ford friend of mine had 10 cammer motors in his garage. i think he retiered on that.
05-21-2004, 12:33 AM
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Cool man! You are truly cool. I can imagine what the insides of an old american are like now if it wasn't cared for. Yikes!
The 2005 Mustang has me dreaming about buying one, but alas, I'm in love with the 8 and I need future room for the future rugrats... But even better will be the 2005 based Shelby 'Stang or the new Cobra.
The 2005 Mustang has me dreaming about buying one, but alas, I'm in love with the 8 and I need future room for the future rugrats... But even better will be the 2005 based Shelby 'Stang or the new Cobra.
05-21-2004, 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Twinturbo2800
borla sounds very 'poppy' gives it that ricey sound imo.
go with greddy
borla sounds very 'poppy' gives it that ricey sound imo.
go with greddy
05-22-2004, 07:34 AM
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FRED!!! I had no idea your were rotarygod. I read your post about the limited power potential of the RX8 automatic engines, very impressive. I was thinking, "This guy knows his stuff and lives in Houston. He would be good to know if I wanted to do something with one of these things. Maybe I could find him at a meet or something." Now I realize I had already met you, lol. I thought we seemed very much alike but from different boards, now I know. Thanks for the welcome. I've been wrenching a bit on the GSL-SE, so far so good. Well I don't want to hi-jack this thread so I'll be in touch.
To all those who haven't had the pleasure Fred is a cool guy, very nice and able to explain all things Rotary well without causing any mental inferiority complexes. He is very enthusiastic about these cars.
Vernon
To all those who haven't had the pleasure Fred is a cool guy, very nice and able to explain all things Rotary well without causing any mental inferiority complexes. He is very enthusiastic about these cars.
Vernon
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