Racing Beat, Rxtuner Article, DYNO'ed
 

Well as some of you know, RxTuner will be testing out some RB parts on the dyno.

This will be the thread to discuss.

Below are some pictures of the Racing Beat intake system. And me digging through it.

Nice.

I liked the RX Tuner turbo coverage, but I think a good set of performance tests on the greddy would be nice to see such as 0-60, 1/4mi, new dyno etc....

There was a After dyno in the Greddy Turbo article, I proposed to Jon to let me drive his car down the 1/4mile, since we all know I can run a 14.5 in stock form, but its not something I can force him to let me do, beside our time table didn't allow for it.

As for the RB Intake:

A baseline chassis dyno will be done, most likely at KD Rotary, then the RB intake will be installed in shop and dyno'd again to show any gain. Next, we will install the exhaust system in shop and once again redyno'd to show the gain both systems make, again driving impressions will be done, noting the volume and "feel" of the systems combined.
After driving impressions, I will take the car home, put it on the lift and install The RB flywheel along with a MazdaSpeed clutch, I do not expect any "measurable" gains here, but the car will be dyno'd again and comparisons of the torque curves will be done.


UPDATE (DYNO)'s
RB Intake and RB Flywheel+MS Clutch and PP Dyno's below

Well sorry for the off topic but i have ms fly and i am going to buy the ms clutch+cover and was thinking to take a lighter fly like the rb..But how much is the stock fly for real??Would it be big difference or i better leave my ms fly as it is??

Anyhow..
I am really interested in the dynos,so keep us informed..i have ordered revi,i have ms fly and waiting for canzoomer midp-4 and ms clutch...i am anxious!!!

Hey Polak, I read your Zoom Zoom Psst thread, GOOD job. I'm looking forward to the dyno after RB intake installation. Mine should have been ordered by now, but the wifey felt it was more important to use my mod money on flowers and plants for our yard instead :(

keep up the good work.

Got the intake dyno'd, WONDERFUL system worth every penny.

I just got back from Rotary Revolutions I'll post the dyno tomorrow, LOT of MIDRANGE GAIN, even has a more stable feel then stock, I couldn't be happier, worth every bit of the 300 bucks.

Adding Flywheel and Clutch/PP this week hoping to get close to the 200rwhp number with those on.

i wouldn't think you would see 200whp off a flywheel...well unlesss you dyno teh car in a lower gear, where you would see more of a gain (yes i know it does't add any thign just frees up hp..that's what i meant :p)...well unless i am totaly missing something :D which is likely. lol.

anyways...i lov emy mazdaspeed flywheel and RB clutch and pp. you shoudl find the acceleration really fun after you do that Polak...good luck and thanks for all teh fun and informative articles :D

ARRGH!! You tease!! :p I can't wait to see these results! I was going to do my own before and after, but the dyno shop refused to cut me a deal on the price. I just couldn't see spending $55 a pull for the answer. I decided to wait until I have a high-flow cat and do the dyno on the whole system. I can't justify spending an additional $110 on each mod just to measure the gains - especially when the true measure of the mod is in the pleasure you take from it - regardless of dynos! In that regard, I have to agree. The RB intake is a bargain! I LOVE IT!

-MD

what sup polak i didnt see ya at the revo sorry i missed ya wanted to say hi

damn it was cold

You may have not been there, I didn't get there till sunday because my plane had to make an emergency landing.... long story just one giant cluster f*ck basically.

As for the flywheel lets leave all the debating aside unless someone wants to put some money on the fact that I will crack 190rwhp with it, the stock baseline was 177 this time around in 3rd and 5th gears. I'm using 5th to compare all the intake stuff, and incase thats too high to show any flywheel gains I have a stock 3rd done.

side note: does it piss anyone else off that renwar1's car dyno'd 200whp STOCK...and the rest of us have to spend money to get there? lol :D

Great stuff, PoLaK...It'll be great to see the before and afters..

Told you it had nothing to do with it being in 5th gear. :)
I'd like too see him on a different dyno tho as I recall you all were making above 180's right?

it has everything to do with being in the right gear - if you want accurate, repeatable results :)

Yeah - we four or five were making mid 180s, regardless of mods. Not sure why us making mid 180s has to do with his car making substantially MORE, however.

He had a couple 198s...then one 206. Later - weeks later, he'd dropped some 8 or 9 hp; mostly due to weather, iirc...

Still - shows concern to me; mazda can't seem to make a consistant product with all the power they claim.

:)

Well duh, but acutally making the "200" number had nothing to do with being in 5th he coulda done them all in 3rd and gotten the same thing.

Btw its just a number on one of my dyno runs I spiked to 680rwhp, doesn't mean my car is making 680rwhp nor does the 180, 190, 200 mean that that car is making those numbers, its usefull as a tuning tool thats all!
If you all were making 185 then its reasonable to assume that the dyno was a tad optimistic but there is no doubt his car was making more power, what the "real" number was is unclear.

Lemme go take some screenshots.

No..because he did a 1-6th run...and he only hit 206 in 5th gear. ;)

Except this wasn't a HP spike...it was a HUGE curve, with gains higher than the rest of us at just about every point in the rpm range. It can't be dismissed as such.

doesn't matter how accurate or not the final numbers are - what can't be explained is why his car made SUBSTANTIALLY more power - peak and 'under' the curve.

;)

oh - and didn't mean to hijack your thread, bro. Sorry. :(

Its fine I'm always up for a piss in the wind.

Anyway I have a little issue does anyone have a really old version of the Winpep or Runviewer software?

I got the .DGP file of my dyno runs but failed to remember that Dynojet (TM) stopped support for this type of file years ago when the upgraded the software, currently they use .DRF files.

I'll have to get the .001 .002 .003 individual runs when i dyno the flywheel if no one has an old version of Runviewer/WinPEP, that means more wait :(

weak sos....

Any progress on this? The suspense is killing me. RB has been alluding to the fact that the dynos will be nicely surprising. My butt dyno tells me the same thing.


-MD

:( need older version of winpep or runviewer !!!!!!!!!!!

You know how a picture is worth a thousand words? If you can't get the picture I'd settle for about 100 words (and numbers) :o .... :p

^hehehehhehehehe what he said :D

polak--please take your car to the track! I don't trust the 8 on dynos. All the previous fc n/a dynos indicate a smooth linear line all the way up to redline. Something doesn't look rite with the 8's dyno graphs. Since you already have a base run in your 8 in the 1/4. Just take the car back to the track and we'll compare the trap speeds.

dmp--If you watch the star mazda series, the anouncers always state how each car is equal because it is a rotary. I don't believe that one guy has some kind of mutant 8. Tell him to take it to the track too.

i dont understand how you have a file you cant open or whatever since you just got the dynos done. cant the dyno place give you whatever you need? do you have printouts from them you can just scan/post? did you try to google the software?

Like i said the shop didn't give me each individual run IE .001 .002 .003 etc... (which is openable in any version)
They gave me a .DGP file, which was replaced by .DRF (dyno run file) several years ago when the winpep software was upgraded. KD rotary still uses the old software, the dyno computer in the shop isn't hooked up to a network nor am i going to trouble them to transfer the file over to the other computer and then email them to me, I'll do it myself when I go back for the flywheel and clutch dyno run.

No I don't have any PO's im sorry, I'll see if Dynojet INC. can help me out.

Are you telling me that you would be more inclined to believe a comparison from a 1/4 mile run from 9months ago that was done in 90deg heat, compared to the 65deg it is now. That is totally dependant on driver skill and luck, not to mention the fact that we are talking only 4hp peek and 7-10 in the midrange which would translate to a tenth of a sec or 1mph, if lucky and if i managed to perfectly launch the car like I did? Additionally I would have to have the exact same amount of gas in the tank as not to give or loose an advantage?

Are you telling me that this would be better then a same day, only 1 hour apart dyno run, the car didn't even change positions on the rollers (we installed the intake on the dyno then let the ECU learn while just driving on the dyno)

While I do not believe that a dyno shows the exact number the car is making, but ran 3 stock base lines one in 3rd and two in 5th and each was 177.X RWHP SAE, thats as close to repeatable as one can get unless you wanna help me take the motor out and put it on a engine dyno.

Each car is equal because it's a rotary with the same engine management tune. Perhaps not so true of the production version. Otherwise gas mileage wouldn't differ so much from car to car.

Just as many variables at a track as there are on a dyno, the driver being the biggest one. Before and after dynos on the same car, same day, similar conditions, same dyno is about as scientific as you can get in this business short of ripping everything apart and putting it on an engine dyno. It will not say that your car will achieve the same numbers however (since every 8 appears to be a little different), but the gains should be similar.

even still, the different flashes can't account for a 26whp gain. Trap speeds never lie. That's what I want to compare. If that guys car is really 206whp then he will trap over 100mph. If he doesn't than it's a dyno problem.

gas mileage is so different from car to car-except for a few exceptions like tstat problems- because of the way the car is driven. period.

Actually in the case of the 8 I would say yes. Drag racing high hp cars is a lot more difficult to be consistent than the 8. Launch the car at 7000rpm and make your shifts. It really is that easy. We're not talkin about a drag car here. Drag racing a 14 second car is not as scientific as you think. just be consistent with your shift points. imo any improvement on your trap speed will be worth documenting.

I'm going to disagree with you there, have you taken the 8 drag racing or are you just talking out the ass? (no rudeness intended) You're talking about tenths maybe even hundreths of a second here, in addtion to track temps and how much sticky stuff is put down, that is no way to conduct any form of testing.

I ran 5 runs before I got 14.5 @ 94.55 all very different times the 4th run was a 14.7, 3rd 14.9 and the others were in the 15's.

I'm talking about comparing trap speed. No, I havn't dragged the 8 on a track yet. I have extensive drag experience with various other cars. what were your trap speeds on your 5 runs?

here's a link to a s4 n/a street port dyno:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...05#post4300205

now tell me why the 8's dyno looks like this:

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=dyno

I only kept the 14.7 and 14.5 timeslips I was pissed about the rest.

14.703 @ 93.90
14.584 @ 94.55

Still man too many variables from a baseline done so long ago, not how you conduct an experiment. When I'm done it all I'll do another run to see but not for product testing.

I was thinking that Racing Beat has done engine Dyno work for Mazda so they will know the real figures for the US spec Renesis.

So in developing the intake they cannot give us all the figures of peak power etc because it may show that the 8 is not making the Mazda stated figures still and this will put racing beat in a spot of bother with Mazda. Especially as there dyno is an engine dyno so the old rolling road dyno excuse of that's at the wheels will not cut it!

Imagine they showed a before and after on the engine dyno with the before showing a figure down on the Mazda claim. Ouch!!!

Still I just ordered my intake, cannot wait until it arrives. :D

DarkMaz8 is making a valid point and I think you are not understanding.

ET reflects traction, shifting, track conditions, experience, etc.

Trap tends to be stable and represent power the car is making. The only way you can really screw it up is if you are a really slow shifter, miss a gear, let off, or bog badly. On any clean run regardless of how bad your et is or 60' the trap should be reasonably consistent within a range.

Me personally, I pretty much take issue with every method of testing as to have certain incosistancies in the automotive industry. Everything is taken with a grain of salt and you make of it what you will.

Try at least making the graphs of similar size before you compare a curve. Try to also verify what level of smoothing has been applied by the dyno operater.

Oh, and it might also help to try and use similar ecu tuning. That might just matter a little. :rolleyes:

Go check any other s4-s5 n/a dyno graph and find one that has dips. All the 8 dynos I've seen have significant dips in them. This is uncharacteristic of a rotary. I am a firm believer that the ecu goes into limp mode because the front wheels aren't moving.

Since trap speed is dependant on horsepower, let’s assume that over the entire curve I made about an average of 6.5hp.

Now don't you think since that 14.5 run was done in 90+deg heat with a track temp of 100+ that there could be a difference of more then 6.5hp then trying to run it here in NJ in 70deg weather?

What about the difference in sea levels, and track compounds, general wear on my motor, wear on my clutch, the octane of gas I was using, tire ware, Do you see what im getting at?

This is the whole reason I didn't install the intake and exhaust at home, I knew the gains would be slight to moderate and I didn't want to use a stock baseline which I had from July of last year. I installed the intake on the dyno so that the rear wheels could stay in the same position on the drums, even that could create a variance of 3-5hp.

I'm not saying that a before and after track run would be a bad thing, but alone its just not accurate enough, nor do I have the connections to give me free strip days. I mean 6.5hp would net me what, about 1.5-2MPH trap speed assuming I could make an identical run, Its not easy not launching from 8000rpms.

Limp mode is a myth, but assuming it does exist even that wouldn't matter because it would be a control for the experiment since both intakes would be subject to it.

I've said it time and time again, a dyno doesn't show the exact number your making its useful as a before and after tuning tool and thats it.

^^^Fair enough. I didn't realize that you were at a different sea level before.

Like I said, I always like a piss in the wind, GF sure hates it though.

WinPeP 6 is the version DynoJet told me I need, googled it to no avail, shop owners?

The dips make sense with the variable length intake runners. When a port opens, it's associated runner is tuned for a higher rpm than the rpm where the port opens. The previous runner length was optimal for the rpm just prior to the new port opening. Therefore the car makes more power just before the port opening versus just after the port opening. Then power builds again to peak at the optimal rpm for the new port's runner length. Add another port, get another dip.

The flatlining at the top of the dyno curves is something else entirely, air starvation, fuel starvation, timing, or some other ecu shenanigans.

1st of the dips are from port openings. not limp mode or any such thing.read what he said above^ second the 7dyno is smoothed or you would see more variation also. lastly on 8s that have been tuned with a piggy back those dips are less pronounced because of better air/fuel ratios. the stock tune makes the car go really rich as each port opens so there is less chance of detonation hence the drops in power. the piggyback tuned cars have leaned these spots out a little.

^^^ What he said. Its called SDAIS, I believe.

-MD

just noticed that 7 also has a piggyback tuning also. and they are all excited by the power number s on this street ported engine. who still believes this engien doesnt make more power than the old ones?

Man, I wish I could see the graphs, but honestly, after starting this thread w/o the ability to share them... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL US SOMETHING, POLAK! :D :p

I can tell you that I made about 7-10 horsepower in the mid range 6-7.5rpm and 4.X horsepower peek and the AFR leaned out with the RB intake significantly.

Peek HP coulda been higher but due to the high wheelspeed the dyno gets spiky up around there, lots of up and downing.

But till i can see the graph again I can't get more specific.

...well, we KNOW it's not 'fuel starvation'... :D

From what I can tell, the intakes on the low and high power engines are the same, with the exception of the sdais and the vfad. I wonder, with the RB intake making 7-10 hp on the high power engine right where the low power engine peaks, and with the low power engine making slightly more power here than the high power, would the low power maybe see a bit higher gain around 6.5k-7.5k rpm?

thats like saying the spare tire is the same as the regular ones except its smaller

I'm just saying the part that RB changed is the same.