Morgan

before anyone tells me to use the search button...i did...

but my question is this...for anyone who has had this done: a. how much did you pay and b:general idea of how much HP it has added...

thanks

Ajax

Not gonna get a lot of exact answers there.

Porting won't give you much w/o tuning and tuning is hard to do with the stock ECU. You're gonna pay a at least 300-500 for an e-manage to tune it if not more for a better piggyback computer.

As far as porting goes, at this point, I doubt anyone knows the FULL potential of the engine and how much power it is really capable of putting out.

The bigger the porting job, the more you'll pay and I'd say if you want to have it done right, you're gonna be spending at least 3k.

Morgan

thanks hun

ddub

I don't see why the actual porting would be that much more than any other rotary. What's going to make it more expensive is the parts that need to be replaced because of the engine tear down, and since the rx8 is so new these parts are pretty expensive. But no way in hell just porting will cost "at least 3k"

Also, porting can add a good amount even without tuning. With normal "streetports" you can get very good gains without needing any fuel upgrades or aftermarket/piggyback ECU work.

Ajax

At least 3k comes from the desire to get ceramic seals to start with. They're like $1200 alone.

Then you add in the fuel system plus the computer and labor and 3k is easy to see.

ddub

And why would you need ceramic seals?

I'm just saying, because you want ceramic seals for some odd reason doesn't mean that Morgan or anyone else would in their rebuild/port. Mazda OEM seals are perfectly fine and have been proven to be extremely strong in many high boost and ported applications. You can get a set of Mazda OEM apex seals for less than 250...

Also, with any type of streetport from mild to extreme you don't have to change the fuel system at all, it should still be perfectly fine on an N/A. If there was boost involved or an already highly modded car, that may be different.

And you can see great gains without tuning still, you don't HAVE to tune. Sure it'd be nice, but that can come later, it's not necessary right away.

Morgan

to reduce heat...??? (i know thats why you need ceramic headers in a camero)

ddub

They're not necessary and way overkill.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

the whole story, how, who and how much.....

Porting thread

S

ddub

I just did a quick check on Mazdatrix for prices on things that you'd have to replace upon a tear down and port of an engine since some things HAVE to be replaced while others don't. Using Mazda OEM pieces it came to about $780 in parts, using aftermarket companies like Rotary Aviation or Atkins Rotary for some parts, though, would make it cheaper. For removal, labor, porting, and reinstallation I can see it being in the 1500 dollar range, 2000 max, this is unless you do the work yourself or get someone with the knowledge that is a friend to do it.

An example would be my rebuild and port on my 2nd gen rx7. I did the rebuild, parts, porting, oil mods, etc. for barely over $500.

Ajax

I know what morgan wants as far as power goes.. she wants extreme and with extreme you're gonna need a big port, and lotsa boost.

So you're talking large street port or bridge port or at least bridge on the aux port and then a lotta boost on top of that. Ceramic is gonna be the only way to go in a 10.0 CR car.

EDIT: You gotta realize, morgan was talking about pulling her motor and throwing a 20b in it.

ddub

Still think ceramic is way overkill, but that's my opinion. I'd go with Hurley race seals over ceramic ones.


I just think the mindset on ceramic seals is that it's worth more than it really is. Mazda OEM seals are used in drag cars with 30+ pounds of boost, so are Atkins seals, and Rotary Aviation seals, and they are running sub 10's and are holding up perfectly fine.

**** even people using peripheral ported 13b's run OEM seals still perfectly fine.

Ajax

Well, you might be right.

I'm just scared of the 10.0 CR.

I'm personally looking at rebuilding my engine and boosting it to get to 400horsepower (at the crank.. at the wheels would probably kill me.)

ddub

Well, I guess if you're scared you can spend a ton of money on ceramic seals, it's your money and your motor. I don't think I'd ever buy them, I'll stick with either Mazda OEM or Hurley race seals.

Morgan

i still want to love *or just put a zr1 motor in it..hehe*:D

and yes,...you do know exactly what i want!! :D

Ajax

Well, it really depends on what the guy working on my motor tells me. He may tell me that the renesis isnt worth spending money on at all and to put a 13b-rew in the car.

I dunno. I'll go on his reccommendations. He's been building motors for 26 years so he knows more than me.

Ajax

pssh.. we dont talk enough anymore for me to know EXACTLY what you want :b

ddub

Go to nopistons.com

There is an archived thread that discusses all the advantages and disadvantages to all the apex seals out there. The general consensus with people on that board is more that mazda OEM is fine for MANY applications, including race applications.

If anything it's an informative read.

Also, I think you'd have more fun building the motor yourself if you feel daring. I built my first motor last summer and it was a lot of fun, including the porting. It's not hard at all, even though a lot of people think it is. A rotary is an extremely simple engine. Not only that but you'll save yourself a bunch of money :p

Ajax

roger. i'll find that.

EDIT: It might be fun.. but i dont have a flowbench and i want to make sure it's done right. I thought about buying a second set of irons and porting those myself but we'll see.

ddub

Yah porting isn't hard either. Problem for people that don't know enough about porting to freehand it is there are no templates out there for the rx8 yet. So you either have to do the research about how to freehand it, or you gotta just be risky haha. Best thing for freehanding, also, is to make a base template, cut it out onto plexiglass with a hole in the center for the e-shaft, put 1 iron/rotor/eshaft together and place the plexiglass template on top, then rotate the shaft to see how the rotor rotates over it and how the seals travel along the port. It'll give you a really good understanding of how your port is. If you're picking up some irons you could even pick up some junked rotors and a cheap e-shaft from somebody that is from a different 13b since the rotor will be the same size, and it'll give you a *good enough* understanding to do a conservative port.

Virgil

Haveing no experiance with the REN and only from hearing the general concensous from people I think the stock OEM seals in the Ren will hold fine, they seem to be holding fine with turbo applications so I doubt porting will be any more destructive then induction (and possible detonation from a bad tune...).

Tuning, Tuning, Tuning, its all in the tuning.

rotarygod

For naturally aspirated uses, there is no advantage to changing apex seals. Personally I plan to machine out the apex seal grovves slightly to allow me to use the older 13B seals which were taller. Then I can use the stronger 2 piece apex seals from Rotary Aviation, Mazdatrix, Atkins, etc... I see no reason to spend $1600 on a set of ceramic seals.

Aoshi Shinomori

Saving money is always a good thing :D
Do you ever plan on owning one of these cars? The reason I ask is because I think if you had one you'd become a much more avid RX8 performance guru. Not that you aren't a huge help as it is, but things can only get better.

rotarygod

I'm getting an engine from one. Does that count?

mtnpass

I know alot about beating a dead horse....I have owned many rotaries before the 8 and will own many after. I have been surrounded by rotary love for years now, have had more than a few rebuilt. I must add that in no way will any of my motors feel a ceramic apex seal or a hurley. I have seen too many issues with both. We can argue all day about the type of seals to use in our cars, but that would just be pulling time away from actually enjoying them. To each his own...

Ajax: ceramic seals 90% of the time are complete overkill, no one will dispute this. You spoke of forced induction in the future. One missed tune on ceramics and you will no longer own a FI kit but instead some scrap metal.. Remember the parts are only as good as the tune. And when detonation occurs ceramics will shred everything piece of aluminum on their way out.