Mods and the Mazda Warranty
12-23-2003, 09:38 AM
#26
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The old trick of getting around this is to reinstall the stock parts, if you have to take the car in for warranty repair! they have to be able to prove that the specific aftermarket part caused the damage, and if it's not there, they can't prove it!
12-23-2003, 09:49 AM
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Well i think as of this summer i will change the exhaust but wait on the intake due to the fact that im brand new to the rotary world >
I love the car just want the extra umf
I love the car just want the extra umf
12-23-2003, 10:47 AM
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Well i had a 96 supra tt moded up nice about a year after i bought it and my toyota dealer never ever gave me a problem.Get in good with the rotary mech at your local dealer.Hes the trigger man believe it or not.Toyota only had for the most part one or two mechs that knew the supra.The same one always worked on my car,and he stood behind me on anything that broke.
12-31-2003, 01:26 PM
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A friend of mine is the Service Manager at the dealership I bought my 8 from and I ask him if i were to put a new air intake on the car would it void my warrenty. He said it would only void it if the problem was something related to the air intake. But never the less, considering it only took me likea 30 min to put it on, i'm gonna just swap it out witht ehorginial when i go get service everytime or at least till i get tired of doing that. haha
01-01-2004, 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Omicron
Useful info, thanks. I might also add that we have consumer protection under the law to modify our vehicles without voiding the warranty, from the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. See this link for more info, and the specific verbiage: http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
Useful info, thanks. I might also add that we have consumer protection under the law to modify our vehicles without voiding the warranty, from the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. See this link for more info, and the specific verbiage: http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
You do also have to remember that each local dealer service is independent of MNAO.
They can simply refuse to work on your car, and it never becomes a warranty issue. This is very important to understand, and it will vary from dealer ot dealer.
01-02-2004, 01:03 PM
#33
Hi,
In some respects I can understand the example of using a RE Intake voiding the powertain warranty. I know it is extreme (hehe), but since it replacing a very central device (the MAF Tube) that is responsible for measuring a very important part of the engines operations (the amount of intake air demanded by the engine), then any subtle changes could give false readings, and in the extreme case such false readings could lead to the PCM making incorrect decisions on certain operatational conditions, and how to handle them.
Hyperthetical: What if "ModX" caused the computer to lean out the mixture to a dangerous degree? What if it caused the computer to pump less oil than is necessary into the intake to lube the seals?
Just trying to rationalise this a little. If you do your mods wisely, then you won't / shouldn't have problems. I hope we have similar statutes here in Australia to those quoted above.
Cheers,
Hymee.
In some respects I can understand the example of using a RE Intake voiding the powertain warranty. I know it is extreme (hehe), but since it replacing a very central device (the MAF Tube) that is responsible for measuring a very important part of the engines operations (the amount of intake air demanded by the engine), then any subtle changes could give false readings, and in the extreme case such false readings could lead to the PCM making incorrect decisions on certain operatational conditions, and how to handle them.
Hyperthetical: What if "ModX" caused the computer to lean out the mixture to a dangerous degree? What if it caused the computer to pump less oil than is necessary into the intake to lube the seals?
Just trying to rationalise this a little. If you do your mods wisely, then you won't / shouldn't have problems. I hope we have similar statutes here in Australia to those quoted above.
Cheers,
Hymee.
01-08-2004, 08:25 AM
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Well, if the hypothetical failure mode can be reasonably explained by the mod, then sure, they would be within their rights to decline warranty coverage. However, I don't think it should allow them to make a blanket statement that since the intake mod could conceivably affect powertrain performance, all warranty on the powertrain is null and void.
As for the dealers refusing to work on a car, I don't see the logic in it for them to do that. They get paid by Mazda for doing warranty work...if the warranty will cover it why do they care?
jds
As for the dealers refusing to work on a car, I don't see the logic in it for them to do that. They get paid by Mazda for doing warranty work...if the warranty will cover it why do they care?
jds
01-12-2004, 04:28 PM
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I work for a dealership. We have the right to refuse any work that comes through our door, regardless of being in warranty or not. As for aftermarket parts voiding warranties...it varies.
If you put a new header and exhaust system on your car - any emissions related items (ie o2 sensors, cats, mufflers) are voided from the warranty.
If you put, say a cold air intake on the vehicle, the mass air flow sensor will be voided from the warranty.
Bolt on additions are not a big deal, its the deep mods that you need to worry about. This isnt such a big deal with the 8's because you cant change the camshafts or pistons to get more compression. If you dramatically alter a system, then it becomes a problem. Fuel managment systems will void any fuel realted issues.
I know I have personally run into this concern many times. MazdaSpeed Protege owners are the biggest contributors to this issue. I dont know the full facts on this, but from what I understand that if you put a cold air intake onto a MSP, the engine is no longer covered, but everything else is.
We dont care if you put aftermarket mods on your car, all we car about it is what it is effecting. Its extreme, but a Cold Air Intake can do more damage than what people think. Its probably never happened and never will, but think about it. You increase the air flow, the mass air flow sensor fails and starts sending the wrong signals to the PCM which in turn sends the wrong signal to the the O2 sensor which in turns starts thinking the emissions isnt right for the air coming in and then adjusts by putting more fuel into the engine, thus causing a flooding problem. ITS EXTREME I KNOW! Dont say it will never happen, because I know it wont, Im giving an example is all.
The one thing that will void your warranty completely, just so you all know, is if you alter or modify the frame in any shape or form. This includes screwing into it. Mazda does not like the frams being messed with at all.
Your warranty will not be voided by mods, just certain aspects of it. Again....
If you put an aftermarket radio into your car and you have problems with the electronics, the dealership will charge you or send you to the place that installed the radio.
If you drop a full exhaust and your o2 sensors go bad, it wont be covered.
If you drop a turbo into and the engine blows, they will send you the 7G estimate and ask how you would like to pay
Its a fine line...do as the other people have recommended. Before you drop a mod on your car, ask the dealership. I'm sorry to say this, and please dont be offended, but we have peopel come in all of the time saying " I saw on the internet...." wanting something done and then get mad when we (the dealership) have never heard of it before and cant verify the concern. Just remeber not to believe everything you see on here. Ask your dealership first. I deal with you guys on a daily basis, and I actually give this webaddress out to my RX8 customers so they have some referencing to do. These sites are what makes my job easier, because I can look and say " Oh, well people are having problems with this, I will have to keep an eye out for this in the future " At the same time though, I get that one guy who is having a problem and he is upset, so he starts bad mouthing the car, the dealership, MNAO, and (I have seen it here) starts making stuff up to get pity on himself.
I tell with MNAO everyday. I have seen those guys go to extremes to get things done. You may not like what they have to say, but they arent trying to BS you around. I personally take anythign they tell me to heart, because so far they have not let me down on anything once. Just ask, its so much easier that way. If you want, feel free to ask me flat out...just send me a personal note and I will try and answer to the best of my ability.
Not all of use service guys are out to get your money and rip you off. I would like to help you guys out as much as I can. Its not official Mazda word, just word from someone who understands the operation behind warranty work.
I will apoloize now if I upset someone, irrated someone, or my facts are wrong.
- Snyder
If you put a new header and exhaust system on your car - any emissions related items (ie o2 sensors, cats, mufflers) are voided from the warranty.
If you put, say a cold air intake on the vehicle, the mass air flow sensor will be voided from the warranty.
Bolt on additions are not a big deal, its the deep mods that you need to worry about. This isnt such a big deal with the 8's because you cant change the camshafts or pistons to get more compression. If you dramatically alter a system, then it becomes a problem. Fuel managment systems will void any fuel realted issues.
I know I have personally run into this concern many times. MazdaSpeed Protege owners are the biggest contributors to this issue. I dont know the full facts on this, but from what I understand that if you put a cold air intake onto a MSP, the engine is no longer covered, but everything else is.
We dont care if you put aftermarket mods on your car, all we car about it is what it is effecting. Its extreme, but a Cold Air Intake can do more damage than what people think. Its probably never happened and never will, but think about it. You increase the air flow, the mass air flow sensor fails and starts sending the wrong signals to the PCM which in turn sends the wrong signal to the the O2 sensor which in turns starts thinking the emissions isnt right for the air coming in and then adjusts by putting more fuel into the engine, thus causing a flooding problem. ITS EXTREME I KNOW! Dont say it will never happen, because I know it wont, Im giving an example is all.
The one thing that will void your warranty completely, just so you all know, is if you alter or modify the frame in any shape or form. This includes screwing into it. Mazda does not like the frams being messed with at all.
Your warranty will not be voided by mods, just certain aspects of it. Again....
If you put an aftermarket radio into your car and you have problems with the electronics, the dealership will charge you or send you to the place that installed the radio.
If you drop a full exhaust and your o2 sensors go bad, it wont be covered.
If you drop a turbo into and the engine blows, they will send you the 7G estimate and ask how you would like to pay
Its a fine line...do as the other people have recommended. Before you drop a mod on your car, ask the dealership. I'm sorry to say this, and please dont be offended, but we have peopel come in all of the time saying " I saw on the internet...." wanting something done and then get mad when we (the dealership) have never heard of it before and cant verify the concern. Just remeber not to believe everything you see on here. Ask your dealership first. I deal with you guys on a daily basis, and I actually give this webaddress out to my RX8 customers so they have some referencing to do. These sites are what makes my job easier, because I can look and say " Oh, well people are having problems with this, I will have to keep an eye out for this in the future " At the same time though, I get that one guy who is having a problem and he is upset, so he starts bad mouthing the car, the dealership, MNAO, and (I have seen it here) starts making stuff up to get pity on himself.
I tell with MNAO everyday. I have seen those guys go to extremes to get things done. You may not like what they have to say, but they arent trying to BS you around. I personally take anythign they tell me to heart, because so far they have not let me down on anything once. Just ask, its so much easier that way. If you want, feel free to ask me flat out...just send me a personal note and I will try and answer to the best of my ability.
Not all of use service guys are out to get your money and rip you off. I would like to help you guys out as much as I can. Its not official Mazda word, just word from someone who understands the operation behind warranty work.
I will apoloize now if I upset someone, irrated someone, or my facts are wrong.
- Snyder
01-12-2004, 05:00 PM
#37
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I apreciate your feedback, but it's varied from dealer to dealer for me. My salesguy said that stuff like a FM tuned addin for the radio would be OK for example, but when I put in a XM Commander (simple FM passthrough) they stated it voided my ENTIRE console electronics system, including the red LCD that started to display corruption issues afterwards. And I didnt even touch the part.
I have no sympathy for dealers now. Say one thing to get the sale, yet then turn around and stick it to ya afterwards for believing them. There probably stand up guys in the service department that would just fix it like they should, but with the higher ups making the decisions they do, it insipres no confidence in me. Even worse, when I said, what the hell, lets see what happens, I was quoted an entire new stereo plus labor for the repair.
I got pissed off, pulled it out and fixed the problem in 4 minutes with a soldering pen.
I have no sympathy for dealers now. Say one thing to get the sale, yet then turn around and stick it to ya afterwards for believing them. There probably stand up guys in the service department that would just fix it like they should, but with the higher ups making the decisions they do, it insipres no confidence in me. Even worse, when I said, what the hell, lets see what happens, I was quoted an entire new stereo plus labor for the repair.
I got pissed off, pulled it out and fixed the problem in 4 minutes with a soldering pen.
01-13-2004, 10:07 AM
#39
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motegi,
I dont know what happened. I havent been online in awhile, but I got it taken care of. Sorry about that, I didnt even notice it until you said something. I dont pop on here very much anymore. I will keep an eye out for that from now on.
I dont know what happened. I havent been online in awhile, but I got it taken care of. Sorry about that, I didnt even notice it until you said something. I dont pop on here very much anymore. I will keep an eye out for that from now on.
01-14-2004, 04:00 PM
#41
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I spoke with my local dealer about adding a turbo to my baby and they said that they would warranty it at their dealership. So long as I had them install it of course. The only problem I have with this would be that I have an extended warranty for up to 8 years and what happens if I move out of the area? I would have to drive my car back to this dealer any time I needed warranty work. My understanding is that if it is a MazdaSpeed upgrade it has been tested by Mazda and that when the upgrade is dealer installed the new modification or upgrade is then covered under warranty. Please correct me if I am wrong.
01-14-2004, 05:01 PM
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If it is an aftermarket turbo that the dealership wants to install and they say they will warranty it, thats something the dealership is doing. Chances are...YES you will have to drive back if you move out of the area. Are you sure that they are keeping the factory warranty or are they just warranting the turbo? That is a fine line that is in your dealerships hands. We [my dealership] dont do aftermarket installations unless its from Mazda. Now if its a Mazdaspeed part, then it should be covered by the warranty if you get a turbo installed. That wont void it.
Check with the dealership about the aftermarket turbo warranty...there may be some catches in it. It might be a situation where the turbo is covered, but you voided the warranty on the engine. Dont quote me on that, check with them!
Let me know what they say....
Check with the dealership about the aftermarket turbo warranty...there may be some catches in it. It might be a situation where the turbo is covered, but you voided the warranty on the engine. Dont quote me on that, check with them!
Let me know what they say....
01-15-2004, 05:21 PM
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"The Magnusson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975 protects consumers from such fradulent activity by new car dealers. Under this Act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not void a vehicle manufacturer's orginial warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warrany or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure. The easiest way to check this is to look in your owner's manual under, "what is not covered". Under Magnusson-Moss Act a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before they can deny warranty coverage. If they cannot prove such claim-or offer an explanation- it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission (202.326.3128) administers the Magnusson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law."
i saw this on rx8club a feew months ago and saved it to word, i dont know the thred it came from.
i saw this on rx8club a feew months ago and saved it to word, i dont know the thred it came from.
01-16-2004, 03:58 AM
#44
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SnyderMazz,
I will check with them when I go in for my next oil change. The dealership owner has a couple of heavily modded cars so I am guessing that they are just personally going to cover that kind of work. I am sure that my warranty would be at risk which is why I am waiting on MazdaSpeed.
I will check with them when I go in for my next oil change. The dealership owner has a couple of heavily modded cars so I am guessing that they are just personally going to cover that kind of work. I am sure that my warranty would be at risk which is why I am waiting on MazdaSpeed.
01-16-2004, 04:12 PM
#45
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there is more to that Federal Warranty Act than just that portion of it. There are portions that read like this....
"......This means that buyers have four years in which to discover and seek a remedy for problems that were present in the product at the time it was sold. It does not mean that the product must last for four years. It means only that the product must be of normal durability, considering its nature and price......"
the way I read this is " you bought the car stock, you turn it into a race car with modifications and it ruins something, there is no warranty becase you didnt buy it that way. " - but again I dont make the rules, just follow them.
Its all in how you see it. That is quoted directly from the FTC website
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...#understanding
Im all about doing modifications, dont get me wrong. I have done them on my car as well as other peoples cars. I do the street racing scene on occasion, so Im not anti-racing by any means. I know that APC makes crappy parts and that JDM parts are the ideal parts to have...If I had an RX8, I would be where you all are at. But I see warranty issues everyday and get asked this question on a daily basis. This is my ultimate advice for everyone....check what is covered and what is not covered. If the warranty from Mazda says " NO TURBOS " and you put one on - you void it. The Protege Speeds say " NO MODIFICATION OF THE INTAKE SYSTEM " - Cold airs, direct airs, and ram airs will void the system - K&N filters on the other hand will not, because you are not modifing the intake system, just the filter. Mazda RECOMMENDS that you use Mazda air filters, but is not apart of the warranty. Air Filters are an example of " wearable items " as well as brake pads, rotors, clutches, fuel filters, and tires. According to the " Warranty Act ", if a place sells you a vacumn they cant tell you " If you use an aftermarket vacumn bag, the warranty is void " ..... they can only recommend that you use THIER bags. The catch to that is, if it is written in the warranty that you can only use that particular vacumn bag, then you have to or the warranty is void. Check the warranty rules and regulations and you will be set. The warranty act is just a guide line for people to base thier warranties off of - read the stuff on the link above and you will see. Should answer a lot of questions and solve some issues.
If you have particular issues or want to ask if something will void or is allowed, send me a private message and I will look into it. As I have stated in several threads before, this is a learning process for me as well...so the more you guys ask the more I get to learn.
"......This means that buyers have four years in which to discover and seek a remedy for problems that were present in the product at the time it was sold. It does not mean that the product must last for four years. It means only that the product must be of normal durability, considering its nature and price......"
the way I read this is " you bought the car stock, you turn it into a race car with modifications and it ruins something, there is no warranty becase you didnt buy it that way. " - but again I dont make the rules, just follow them.
Its all in how you see it. That is quoted directly from the FTC website
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...#understanding
Im all about doing modifications, dont get me wrong. I have done them on my car as well as other peoples cars. I do the street racing scene on occasion, so Im not anti-racing by any means. I know that APC makes crappy parts and that JDM parts are the ideal parts to have...If I had an RX8, I would be where you all are at. But I see warranty issues everyday and get asked this question on a daily basis. This is my ultimate advice for everyone....check what is covered and what is not covered. If the warranty from Mazda says " NO TURBOS " and you put one on - you void it. The Protege Speeds say " NO MODIFICATION OF THE INTAKE SYSTEM " - Cold airs, direct airs, and ram airs will void the system - K&N filters on the other hand will not, because you are not modifing the intake system, just the filter. Mazda RECOMMENDS that you use Mazda air filters, but is not apart of the warranty. Air Filters are an example of " wearable items " as well as brake pads, rotors, clutches, fuel filters, and tires. According to the " Warranty Act ", if a place sells you a vacumn they cant tell you " If you use an aftermarket vacumn bag, the warranty is void " ..... they can only recommend that you use THIER bags. The catch to that is, if it is written in the warranty that you can only use that particular vacumn bag, then you have to or the warranty is void. Check the warranty rules and regulations and you will be set. The warranty act is just a guide line for people to base thier warranties off of - read the stuff on the link above and you will see. Should answer a lot of questions and solve some issues.
If you have particular issues or want to ask if something will void or is allowed, send me a private message and I will look into it. As I have stated in several threads before, this is a learning process for me as well...so the more you guys ask the more I get to learn.
03-04-2004, 09:10 PM
#46
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READ THIS ABOUT AFTERMARKET PARTS/FACTORY MAZDA WARRANTY
THIS SHOULD CLARIFY THINGS...........http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
03-04-2004, 09:56 PM
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03-04-2004, 11:05 PM
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Turbo Matty P
I'll get myself flamed for this - but it sounds like if the repeated backfires can be reasonably blamed on the aftermarket intake then the damage is not covered by the warranty.
In your own words, "The CEL illuminated (random multiple misfires---probably due to my aftermarket air filter!! ) and then POP."
Sure sounds like cause and effect.
John
I'll get myself flamed for this - but it sounds like if the repeated backfires can be reasonably blamed on the aftermarket intake then the damage is not covered by the warranty.
In your own words, "The CEL illuminated (random multiple misfires---probably due to my aftermarket air filter!! ) and then POP."
Sure sounds like cause and effect.
John
03-04-2004, 11:16 PM
#49
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Re: READ THIS ABOUT AFTERMARKET PARTS/FACTORY MAZDA WARRANTY
Originally posted by Killerking1964
THIS SHOULD CLARIFY THINGS...........http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
THIS SHOULD CLARIFY THINGS...........http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
The biggest separation that people do NOT understand is that the Dealership, where service and warranty labor is performed, is separate from Mazda North America Operations (MNAO).
If you come in with an intake, and the dealer doesn't like, they have the RIGHT to refuse to look at, or even work on or diagnose your car. Even if you wanted to pay them, and they didn't like what they saw, the could still do that!
This is all before warranty consideration. If you get denied for something like that... go ahead, call MNAO. I can guarantee that they will be empathetic. The might even call the service manager to see what's up. But the only thing they will be able to recommend is to.... visit another dealer!
I'm really getting tired of typing up this scenario. I just need to make a page and point people to it.
03-04-2004, 11:53 PM
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Snyder, you are right about the K&N not voiding the warranty. My dealership says that a cold air intake on the 8 is not recommended but it was something to do with the MAFS. So that's why I went with the K&N typhoon. Also, K&N will fight for you if the dealership refuses warranty because of their product!