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-   -   Intakes Reviewed: Racing Beat VS K&NII (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/intakes-reviewed-racing-beat-vs-k-nii-139261/)

Jedi54 03-02-2008 01:14 AM

Glen, Danny, Tim, and I all had RB intake.
Top car had a CAI, final car was stock.

Jedi54 03-02-2008 01:15 AM

MORE food for thought: Here's the car with the K&N version 2 intake. (finished DEAD LAST)




http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...aWhiteRX-8.jpg

swoope 03-02-2008 01:19 AM

as this is proof, it really is not..

you would have to do it on one car. test the change.. and still. the dyno shown does give info..

i doubt anyone here has enough testing experience to feel a 10 hp change, and a less than 5 hp change. not so much.


beers :beer:

MazdaManiac 03-02-2008 01:22 AM

The K&N has a slightly oversized MAF housing.
It causes the MAF to read low and the open-loop fueling to be lean.
That is where its power comes from.

I just spent an afternoon with one, trimming its MAF calibrations.
It is 8% off across the board.

imput1234 03-02-2008 01:24 AM

I agree with swoope.
To see the diffrence; use the same car, and try both intakes.
There are a lot of other factors in the dynos...

Brettus 03-02-2008 01:27 AM


Originally Posted by MazdaManiac (Post 2325731)
The K&N has a slightly oversized MAF housing.
It causes the MAF to read low and the open-loop fueling to be lean.
That is where its power comes from.

I just spent an afternoon with one, trimming its MAF calibrations.
It is 8% off across the board.

-


Interesting - would the LTFT bring the fuel back in line with stock ?

DOMINION 03-02-2008 03:27 AM


Originally Posted by Mikeluvs8 (Post 2325659)
Who has the revi mine is gone.

I think Phil might had one. I'll ask him about it Sunday. Maybe he will let me use it when I Dyno on Wed.

Hey Jeff!!! is that good or bad? PM if you have to.
Thanks,
-Gil

Mikeluvs8 03-02-2008 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by DOMINION (Post 2325809)
I think Phil might had one. I'll ask him about it Sunday. Maybe he will let me use it when I Dyno on Wed.

Hey Jeff!!! is that good or bad? PM if you have to.
Thanks,
-Gil

he does not i talked to him already.

Mikeluvs8 03-02-2008 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by Jedi54 (Post 2325715)
your butt dyno has failed you.

Dyno charts do not agree with you Mike. I dyno'd 19 rx-8's on the SAME day on the SAME dyno. 4 of the Top 5 had RB intakes...


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...st5VSStock.jpg


he could of had bad coils or a weak engine, i seen that most of these low dynos usually meaning beacuse the coils are on the verge of going out or engine is weak if he had a reman.

Mikeluvs8 03-02-2008 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by MazdaManiac (Post 2325731)
The K&N has a slightly oversized MAF housing.
It causes the MAF to read low and the open-loop fueling to be lean.
That is where its power comes from.

I just spent an afternoon with one, trimming its MAF calibrations.
It is 8% off across the board.

interesting...

DOMINION 03-02-2008 10:15 PM

^Dam it. I for got to ask Jeff about that post

nycgps 03-03-2008 12:50 AM

hmm thats interesting ...

MazdaManiac 03-03-2008 01:26 AM


Originally Posted by Brettus (Post 2325737)
-


Interesting - would the LTFT bring the fuel back in line with stock ?

Yes, but only in the calculated load areas that equate to closed-loop - under 5500 RPM and less than .45 or so calcLoad.
After that, its open loop and the trims won't matter.


Originally Posted by DOMINION (Post 2325809)

Hey Jeff!!! is that good or bad? PM if you have to.
Thanks,
-Gil

What? The Revi? It probably won't affect your dyno particularly. Its mostly meant to help cool the intake when the car is on the road.

DOMINION 03-03-2008 05:23 AM

I see thanks!

lolachampcar 03-03-2008 07:04 AM

I have a couple of quick questions-

First, does the Long Term Fuel Trim carry over to Open Loop operation as Jim M. indicates on the Racing Beat web site? If it does then that 8% negative trim would most certainly lean high load operation. Perhaps clearing LTFT before each dyno run and logging data to confirm that there is no trim would remove this concern from the dyno comparison.

Second, has anyone data logged mass air flow back to back to back with all the options (plus stock) to see what increases in pumping efficiency can be had with each modification? If MAF goes up, you have more air getting in and you should be producing more power (all other things being equal).

savedsol 03-03-2008 11:03 AM

From Racing Beat, "If you are interested in obtaining maximum horsepower at the extreme upper end of the RX-8 power band (i.e. racing or high performance applications), but are willing to sacrifice some level of drivability, we can make a recommendation for an alternate product from another manufacturer."
http://racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm (under the Revi FAQ)

Call them and ask, that alternate product is the K&N.

lshu 03-03-2008 01:35 PM

Another thing to consider, from my own experience:

When I first installed my RB intake+duct, I actually felt like I lost a little power for a while using my butt dyno. Not only that, the intake sound was kinda loud and hollow-sounding. But after like 2 weeks of driving, I (at least, believe) I felt the power increase to a little over what it was before, and the sound mellowed out. Maybe intakes need to be "broken in" a bit before you compare them?

DOMINION 03-03-2008 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by savedsol (Post 2327573)
From Racing Beat, "If you are interested in obtaining maximum horsepower at the extreme upper end of the RX-8 power band (i.e. racing or high performance applications), but are willing to sacrifice some level of drivability, we can make a recommendation for an alternate product from another manufacturer."
http://racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm (under the Revi FAQ)

Call them and ask, that alternate product is the K&N.

Ahh it was only a matter of time.

mysql 03-03-2008 08:07 PM

if the k&n gains are from a 8% larger maf, then I consider that a false gain since the gain isn't from the intake or it's design, but rather from tricking the MAF to thinking there is less airflow and thus result with leaner AFRs.

Should you tune your car with an int-x, emu, or accessport, you'd have a leaner AFR, and be able to fine tune it properly.

Razz1 03-03-2008 10:49 PM


Originally Posted by Mikeluvs8 (Post 2325106)
never said there was anything wrong with it. i was just posting and informing by experience. this is what i got with a couple of weeks with the revi. its a great intake i just noticed that the car felt a bit more reponsive with the k&n and rb duct.

The feel is your butt dyno.

Not much creedance there.

DOMINION 03-04-2008 12:24 AM

Meh works for me :)

Fanman 03-04-2008 03:41 AM


Originally Posted by Mikeluvs8 (Post 2325144)
yeah its amazing how you got 5hp out of this. where did you read this?

What exactly are you expecting the difference to be between the 2 systems ? I said "even if" the difference was 5 hp, you wouldn't feel it. What do you think it is ? 10-15 hp ? Because then I would call you sadly misinformed/delusional. The poster above me said he could feel the difference between the two. I said tat is not really possible as the ass dyno isn't going to be able to tell the difference (EVEN IF IT WAS AROUND 5 hp, let alone something like 0,1.2, or 3 hp).

Flashwing 03-04-2008 04:40 AM

The primary issue from the K&N II is the fact that the design doesn't seal it off from the rest of the motor. If you're like me and you run without the engine cover on, you get all the hot motor air seeping into the intake...it's even worse at idle.

The RB intake duct would be useful and I've thought about installing that on my intake setup to help with IAT's while driving or in performance situations. Still, my IAT's during the summer here in AZ see upwards of 165 to 170 degrees. I have older datalogs showing it...it's insane!

I think we might be able to see true gains with the accessport once the MAF is calibrated to the intake tube size.


Originally Posted by MazdaManiac (Post 2325731)
The K&N has a slightly oversized MAF housing.
It causes the MAF to read low and the open-loop fueling to be lean.
That is where its power comes from.

I just spent an afternoon with one, trimming its MAF calibrations.
It is 8% off across the board.

Actually I think that it might be off more than that as I recall the STFT trimming another 1 to 2 percent. Still, it's a good amount.

Mikeluvs8 03-04-2008 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by Fanman (Post 2329151)
What exactly are you expecting the difference to be between the 2 systems ? I said "even if" the difference was 5 hp, you wouldn't feel it. What do you think it is ? 10-15 hp ? Because then I would call you sadly misinformed/delusional. The poster above me said he could feel the difference between the two. I said tat is not really possible as the ass dyno isn't going to be able to tell the difference (EVEN IF IT WAS AROUND 5 hp, let alone something like 0,1.2, or 3 hp).

WHERE DO YOU GET THESE#'S???? BEACAUSE YOU ARE SADLY BEING MISINFORMED, REGARDLESS IF I GAIN HP GAIN TQ OR LOSE HP OR LOSE TQ, MY CAR OVERALL FEELS BETTER W/THE K&N RB DUCT SETUP.UNLIKE MANY OTHERS I ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED BOTH SETUPS.

mysql 03-04-2008 12:36 PM

I would love to see a blind test where you wear earmuffs and try driving your car with each of the intakes to see if you actually feel the difference, or if it's in your head due to the sound.


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