Dynoing the RE Intake
03-18-2004, 07:45 PM
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Dynoing the RE Intake
just wanted to let everyone know that I'll be taking my 8 to have it dynoed Friday at Advanced Tuning Products in Fremont, CA.
My car has about 1600 miles on it and is 100% stock. Chuck @ RE has volunteered to pay for my dyno time so we can see if his intake makes power and if so where along the band the gains show up.
I hope to have these results by 5-6pm pacific time and will post them at that time.
My car has about 1600 miles on it and is 100% stock. Chuck @ RE has volunteered to pay for my dyno time so we can see if his intake makes power and if so where along the band the gains show up.
I hope to have these results by 5-6pm pacific time and will post them at that time.
03-19-2004, 10:52 PM
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ok, I just got back about 1/2 an hour or so. Brother Voodoo and RX8guy were both there along w/ Chuck from Rotary Extreme. I don't have the printout dyno results just yet. the dyno shop and/or chuck is sending them via e-mail and then I need to go to dynojet.com to d/l the software to then post the charts on this thread.
However, I do know the results off the top of my head. In a nutshell, my GT 8 dynoed pretty low stock. It only registered 168hp to the wheels over 4 runs. Does this substantiate the "limp mode" theory???? who knows.
we then dynoed 4 runs w/ the RE intake. The intake is pretty loud w/o the cover on. w/ the cover, it's a bit more acceptable. back to the dyno results: the max HP I got w/ the RE intake was 175 or 176 hp to the wheels. The gain was about 7-8hp overall.
The most power was made starting at 7-7.2k up to redline. during this range, HP increase looked like a solid 6-8hp.
Torque gains were 2-3 max.
I'll post the sheets as soon as I can d/l the dynojet program and export the file to this thread. thanks for your patience.
However, I do know the results off the top of my head. In a nutshell, my GT 8 dynoed pretty low stock. It only registered 168hp to the wheels over 4 runs. Does this substantiate the "limp mode" theory???? who knows.
we then dynoed 4 runs w/ the RE intake. The intake is pretty loud w/o the cover on. w/ the cover, it's a bit more acceptable. back to the dyno results: the max HP I got w/ the RE intake was 175 or 176 hp to the wheels. The gain was about 7-8hp overall.
The most power was made starting at 7-7.2k up to redline. during this range, HP increase looked like a solid 6-8hp.
Torque gains were 2-3 max.
I'll post the sheets as soon as I can d/l the dynojet program and export the file to this thread. thanks for your patience.
03-19-2004, 10:54 PM
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Excellent. Please also make the raw data from the dyno runs available too, before someone starts clamoring for it. If you like, I can put it up on an FTP server if you cannot.
03-19-2004, 11:15 PM
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It was good meeting all those local rx8 owners in person although the dyno runs burnt a big hole in my wallet. :D
The gain from William's dyno runs look a lot like the one I did a couple of months back. But his base runs are a lot lower even though the dyno was done at the same shop. The ambient temp and humidity are about the same. So I suspect the earlier cars (pre order ones, like mine), come with the map that makes more power.
I will putting up a page on my website with description and raw data for people to download.
Chuck Huang
The gain from William's dyno runs look a lot like the one I did a couple of months back. But his base runs are a lot lower even though the dyno was done at the same shop. The ambient temp and humidity are about the same. So I suspect the earlier cars (pre order ones, like mine), come with the map that makes more power.
I will putting up a page on my website with description and raw data for people to download.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Omicron
Excellent. Please also make the raw data from the dyno runs available too, before someone starts clamoring for it. If you like, I can put it up on an FTP server if you cannot.
Excellent. Please also make the raw data from the dyno runs available too, before someone starts clamoring for it. If you like, I can put it up on an FTP server if you cannot.
03-19-2004, 11:25 PM
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I wish I knew about this before. I would have paid to my own car on the dyno after you guys made your runs! I still need to. I just want to know what I am working with.
03-19-2004, 11:28 PM
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I plan to do some more runs next week either on Thursday or Friday . You are welcome to come along but no courtesy free dyno this time. :D
Email me at rotaryextreme@aol.com if you want to join. Thanks.
Chuck Huang
Email me at rotaryextreme@aol.com if you want to join. Thanks.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by murix
I wish I knew about this before. I would have paid to my own car on the dyno after you guys made your runs! I still need to. I just want to know what I am working with.
I wish I knew about this before. I would have paid to my own car on the dyno after you guys made your runs! I still need to. I just want to know what I am working with.
03-19-2004, 11:37 PM
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If I can get my car in for some runs I would be happy to pay for it myself just to get a baseline. I want to dyno before every mod so I better get some dynos so I can get some mods. 
If not, I would still like to go along and watch anyway.
If not, I would still like to go along and watch anyway.
03-20-2004, 02:17 AM
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It was great meeting some more fellow RX-8 owners. Let me add that I was impressed with Chucks exhaust which was conducted on a BASE model without DSC/TCS/ABS. Blksf8 will post intake not sure who will post exhaust.
Last edited by brothervoodoo; 03-23-2004 at 12:35 PM.
03-20-2004, 02:17 AM
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cliffnotes summary:
HP - max HP gain was 7.25hp to the wheels. no HP gains until about 4800rpms. 4800-6000 looks like 1-2 hp gains at max. real HP gains don't pick up until 7250-redline where it looks like HP gains are around 6-7hp.
Torque - most torque gains come around 4800-6000 rpms and 7300-redline. Max torque gain was 2.42lbs.
It was a pleasure to finally meet RX guy and brothervoodoo. We'll definitely be in touch!
The forum should really thank Chuck at RE for putting his money where his mouth is. He was nice enough to pay for this dyno session and in the process he also proved to us that his intake does indeed make power....(now enough of this "RE intake gave me negative hp" talk)
ok finally, see below for run details....
HP - max HP gain was 7.25hp to the wheels. no HP gains until about 4800rpms. 4800-6000 looks like 1-2 hp gains at max. real HP gains don't pick up until 7250-redline where it looks like HP gains are around 6-7hp.
Torque - most torque gains come around 4800-6000 rpms and 7300-redline. Max torque gain was 2.42lbs.
It was a pleasure to finally meet RX guy and brothervoodoo. We'll definitely be in touch!
The forum should really thank Chuck at RE for putting his money where his mouth is. He was nice enough to pay for this dyno session and in the process he also proved to us that his intake does indeed make power....(now enough of this "RE intake gave me negative hp" talk)
ok finally, see below for run details....
Last edited by blksf8; 03-20-2004 at 02:39 AM.
03-20-2004, 08:31 AM
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Power : + 4.3 % ; Torque : + 1.8 %.
That's, as expected (by me that is), well under the 5 % line where a very experimented vehicle appraisal specialist can detect any change in performance.
Normal users like us need more than a 10% increase to feel any difference !!
And I don't even mention test to test variability of rolling dynos...
EDIT : very interesting curves though, showing how torque is delivered across the rpm range, and the bumps (I don't feelthemwhile driving). Thanks
That's, as expected (by me that is), well under the 5 % line where a very experimented vehicle appraisal specialist can detect any change in performance.
Normal users like us need more than a 10% increase to feel any difference !!
And I don't even mention test to test variability of rolling dynos...
EDIT : very interesting curves though, showing how torque is delivered across the rpm range, and the bumps (I don't feelthemwhile driving). Thanks
Last edited by IKnowNot'ing; 03-20-2004 at 12:25 PM.
03-20-2004, 11:39 AM
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The torque took a dump as you described is mainly the characteristic of the Renesis engine. Every dyno we have done and from other people's dyno sheets all indicate that.
The a/f didn't take a dump though. 11.5 a/f under full throttle at high rpm is normal with the stock ECU setup.
You will see the same thing next week.
Chuck Huang
The a/f didn't take a dump though. 11.5 a/f under full throttle at high rpm is normal with the stock ECU setup.
You will see the same thing next week.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by murix
Your stock a/f and torque sure do take a dump. (on both graphs - has nothing to do with intake)
What happened to linear torque?
Your stock a/f and torque sure do take a dump. (on both graphs - has nothing to do with intake)
What happened to linear torque?
03-20-2004, 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by blksf8
In a nutshell, my GT 8 dynoed pretty low stock. It only registered 168hp to the wheels over 4 runs. Does this substantiate the "limp mode" theory???? who knows.
In a nutshell, my GT 8 dynoed pretty low stock. It only registered 168hp to the wheels over 4 runs. Does this substantiate the "limp mode" theory???? who knows.
BUT - I still don't understand why anyone would put their RX-8 on a dyno and not do anything to prevent limp mode? It's pretty well known that it's a certainty to happen, and will affect the results. There's been a bunch of posts/threads about how to do this... and those dyno results where the PCM goes into limp mode are, to my mind at least, nearly useless because they do NOT correlate at all to the performance of the engine on the road.
From what I've read - you just need to unbolt the ABS sensors and tie them back away from the wheels. Then, the front wheels aren't turning and the rear wheels aren't registering as turning. Canzoomer has gone into some detail about this in several threads.
Regards,
Gordon
03-20-2004, 02:44 PM
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There is no way to get rid of the limp mode is there is really one. There is no way to dyno the car with just 10 sec on there. Maybe in first gear only. But first gear the rpm goes up too fast to get a accurate a/f datalogging reading unless the a/f sensor can register 50 points per sec and there is not enough load on the car to get the most accurate result.
If you look at Canzoomer's dynosheet which says it's already SAE corrected, his base line is still only 175 rwhp. If he did get rid of the limp mode, you should see about 200 rwhp from a complete stock car. 238 flywheel with 15% loss. To be honest with you, I think the RX8 should have a less drivetrain loss due to the use of carbon fiber drive shaft. Have you seen any dyon sheet with 200 rwhp from the stock car or even close to that? I haven't seen one and I probably dynoed more rx8's than anyone else on this board.
Yesterday, I happened to dyno a base 6 speed (238 hp engine). We were excited to see if we can truly see the real rwhp from the rx8 since it does not have DSC to begin with, assuming no DSC, no limp mode but the result is the same.
Chuck Huang
If you look at Canzoomer's dynosheet which says it's already SAE corrected, his base line is still only 175 rwhp. If he did get rid of the limp mode, you should see about 200 rwhp from a complete stock car. 238 flywheel with 15% loss. To be honest with you, I think the RX8 should have a less drivetrain loss due to the use of carbon fiber drive shaft. Have you seen any dyon sheet with 200 rwhp from the stock car or even close to that? I haven't seen one and I probably dynoed more rx8's than anyone else on this board.
Yesterday, I happened to dyno a base 6 speed (238 hp engine). We were excited to see if we can truly see the real rwhp from the rx8 since it does not have DSC to begin with, assuming no DSC, no limp mode but the result is the same.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Ditto the thanks to Chuck for his efforts to get dyno results for his product.
BUT - I still don't understand why anyone would put their RX-8 on a dyno and not do anything to prevent limp mode? It's pretty well known that it's a certainty to happen, and will affect the results. There's been a bunch of posts/threads about how to do this... and those dyno results where the PCM goes into limp mode are, to my mind at least, nearly useless because they do NOT correlate at all to the performance of the engine on the road.
From what I've read - you just need to unbolt the ABS sensors and tie them back away from the wheels. Then, the front wheels aren't turning and the rear wheels aren't registering as turning. Canzoomer has gone into some detail about this in several threads.
Regards,
Gordon
Ditto the thanks to Chuck for his efforts to get dyno results for his product.
BUT - I still don't understand why anyone would put their RX-8 on a dyno and not do anything to prevent limp mode? It's pretty well known that it's a certainty to happen, and will affect the results. There's been a bunch of posts/threads about how to do this... and those dyno results where the PCM goes into limp mode are, to my mind at least, nearly useless because they do NOT correlate at all to the performance of the engine on the road.
From what I've read - you just need to unbolt the ABS sensors and tie them back away from the wheels. Then, the front wheels aren't turning and the rear wheels aren't registering as turning. Canzoomer has gone into some detail about this in several threads.
Regards,
Gordon
03-20-2004, 02:58 PM
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Gordan:
BTW, if you want, you can dyno your car according to Canzoomer's procedure to see if you can get any SAE corrected 200 rwhp on the dyno from a complete stock car. If you can get me the dynosheet showing 200 rwhp, I don't mind getting those guys together again and test the cars on the dyno following the procedure.
The only way I see it's possibe to do so will be run it at first gear and pop the clutch on the dyno like you are drag racing so you can accelerate from 1000 to 9000 rpm in less than 10 sec. The dyno tech better do it fast too becuase when the wheels start rolling, the count starts so you can't even do rolling start.
Chuck Huang
BTW, if you want, you can dyno your car according to Canzoomer's procedure to see if you can get any SAE corrected 200 rwhp on the dyno from a complete stock car. If you can get me the dynosheet showing 200 rwhp, I don't mind getting those guys together again and test the cars on the dyno following the procedure.
The only way I see it's possibe to do so will be run it at first gear and pop the clutch on the dyno like you are drag racing so you can accelerate from 1000 to 9000 rpm in less than 10 sec. The dyno tech better do it fast too becuase when the wheels start rolling, the count starts so you can't even do rolling start.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Ditto the thanks to Chuck for his efforts to get dyno results for his product.
BUT - I still don't understand why anyone would put their RX-8 on a dyno and not do anything to prevent limp mode? It's pretty well known that it's a certainty to happen, and will affect the results. There's been a bunch of posts/threads about how to do this... and those dyno results where the PCM goes into limp mode are, to my mind at least, nearly useless because they do NOT correlate at all to the performance of the engine on the road.
From what I've read - you just need to unbolt the ABS sensors and tie them back away from the wheels. Then, the front wheels aren't turning and the rear wheels aren't registering as turning. Canzoomer has gone into some detail about this in several threads.
Regards,
Gordon
Ditto the thanks to Chuck for his efforts to get dyno results for his product.
BUT - I still don't understand why anyone would put their RX-8 on a dyno and not do anything to prevent limp mode? It's pretty well known that it's a certainty to happen, and will affect the results. There's been a bunch of posts/threads about how to do this... and those dyno results where the PCM goes into limp mode are, to my mind at least, nearly useless because they do NOT correlate at all to the performance of the engine on the road.
From what I've read - you just need to unbolt the ABS sensors and tie them back away from the wheels. Then, the front wheels aren't turning and the rear wheels aren't registering as turning. Canzoomer has gone into some detail about this in several threads.
Regards,
Gordon
03-20-2004, 03:02 PM
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It looks like you don't have to since I already have witnesses and dynoed 3 cars on the same day so there is a lot of data already.
There is some intersting info I found out but it takes time to do a write up. I will post here and also on my own website.
Chuck Huang
There is some intersting info I found out but it takes time to do a write up. I will post here and also on my own website.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by JERCS
Chuck do you still want me to dyno next week?
What was the setup to get the torque at the best?
Chuck do you still want me to dyno next week?
What was the setup to get the torque at the best?