RotorMotor04

I have been reading through a few import car magazines lately and have found this a number of times. I was wondering if anyone had any info on it or if anyone has tried it yet. I did a search for it but could not find anything. I think this could possibly be an alternative to Nitrous.


www.designengineering.com

here is a good pic
http://www.designengineering.com/pro...asp?m=sp&pid=1

robertdot

It's not an alternative to nos (they even say it on their FAQ). Nos injects Nitrous Oxide into your combustion chambers. This is CO2, which would retard combustion if injected into the chambers.

Luckily, they say this:
Basically, you "wrap" your intake and / or various other parts to make the air cold when it goes in. They claim about 10 HP on a N/A 110 HP Civic.

They have an intercooler cooler. That sounds like the best application to me. If I had a turbo, I'd think about it. But for a N/A car, it might not be worth it. I can't find a price or dyno on their site.

But it's definitely not a replacement for NOS.

dcfc3s

Did some digging around, and haven't found anyone that's actually used it and can give some feedback.

While it does seem like it would work in theory, there's a few minuses. First, any time you stick something in the intake tract, you create a restriction - yes, it's shaped like a bullet and everything, but it's still a restriction.

Second, with the smooth shape of it and everything, it's hard to say how much it would actually cool the air. Air can get moving pretty darn fast in an intake tract, and fast-moving air typically doesn't stick around very long to gain or lose temperature. Now, with an intercooler or a radiator, you have fins and turbulators that are designed to transfer heat to or from air.

Not to mention you have a bottle you have to refill - I've never been a big fan of nitrous because of that. You can go through a bottle of nitrous REALLY fast. I prefer having power all the time, not just until the bottle runs out.

It's a big "maybe" in my book.

Dale

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

Ford had something similar to this on the Lightening Concept truck.

Basically they had an extra resevoir of air conditioning refridgerant that could be squirted through passages in the intake manifold to chill it. The refridgerant would then be recycled to the rest of the AC system where it will eventually be chilled again. I believe Ford claimed the system would give you a 35hp increase for around 20 sec at the flip of a switch.

robertdot

That seems like a better application of the idea (using re-usable refrigerant instead), but I think that is one of those sure-if-it-came-stock-but-I-don't-think-i'd-add-it things. But I could change my mind at any point. How many horses did the Lightenting Concept have? If it had around 350hp before the coolant, they are still only getting 10% gains like CryO2.

I'm just not sure I totally buy into the NOS-like, push button, short-timed horsepower bumps. They only really seem good for straight line racing, and they eventually run out.

RotorMotor04

True, but it would be a nice addition if it were an easy install. 10% HP is 10%HP if you ask me.

robertdot

As long as you like holding down a button while you drive...

To each his own.

rotarygod

You don't necessarily have to hold down a button. Many systems activate at a certain throttle amount and above a certain rpm and keep spraying as long as you are at that throttle level.

RotorMotor04

rotarygod, with your expertise, what do you think of this system

rotarygod

Good concept but I'm really curious as to how much of a restriction that bullet shaped thing is. It has to have "some" loss. Colder air is denser air though and that is more air. Personally if I am going to install something on my car that has a bottle that needs to be filled, it is going to give me a much bigger kick. somewhere around 50 to 75 or so if you catch my drift.

RotorMotor04

so Nitrous is a better option???

Japan8

Without a doubt.

RotorMotor04

can the renesis handle a small shot???

Potent

Sure it could handle a "small shot" but the real question is for how long. They have enough progressive controllers and "safe" ways to apply nitrous to a motor now but the end result is still the same. Added stress. The only sure fire way to KNOW you can squeeze a motor is to build it for it. Nitrous is fun and cheaper than boost but reliability is always an issue.

RotorMotor04

does anyone know of somewhat that has used nitrous on the 8

IKnowNot'ing

RotorMotor4,

There was a guy who posted in the Parts for Sale section. He was offering a full NO2 system that allegedly worked fine on his car. Wonder why he's selling it then though? Try a search there.

IKN

Japan8

There's a shop in Japan... Phoenix Power I believe.... they're using NO2

dcfc3s

In the past, the rule with rotaries and nitrous is a dry 50 shot, any more and you need a wet system. Nitrous is relatively easy to install and does make the advertised horsepower, it's just pricey to keep refilling that bottle.

You don't have to hold a button down to make a nitrous system work - you typically flip a switch to arm it, then have a switch on the throttle body that is tripped at full throttle. So, you arm it, line up, and punch it, and the nitrous goes to work. Disarm the system, and it's off again.

Again, I'm not a fan of horsepower that you have to re-fill - I'd rather have power full time. A 50 shot is probably as far as most people would and should go - past that and you're looking at driveline problems and trying to tune the system properly. It's one thing to put nitrous on a 10 year old car you bought for a few grand, it's another thing on a brand-new car.

Dale

Kain

well hello! so everyone is discussing the air intake method- what about their fuel rail method????????????????????????

Kain

Bump Bump Bump

robertdot

Examples? I think we're all still pretty new to the idea of super-cooling engine components and / or this method of cooling the air while in the intake.

Velocity-8

He was the guy whose car they used in Tuner Transformation. They used a 35 shot and got around 40hp on the dyno. The kit came from Nitrious Express. BTW, I emailed him a few times and he is a nice guy and seems very legit.

Velocity-8

Here's the link...

NO2 System

Kain

you use the same bottle of the coolent- but it has three delivery methods you can choose from, or you can run all three from the same bottle- the first is the intake- the second is the fuel rail and the third is for an intercooler (which obviously is NA as of this point for us)

robertdot

Ah, yeah. Memory refreshing now. Would cooling the fuel rail be optimal? Wasn't the point to cool the air to make it contract, thus fit more in? Wouldn't you want to do that early on?

I don't know. I've never done this and I've only done very modest research. I think I agree dcfc3s as he said it. I'm not really fond of power that has to be refilled. I'll admit it is an interesting idea. I like the intercooler idea, since that wouldn't restrict air flow the same way as sticking something in your intake. I'll have to read up more on the fuel rack.

--EDIT--

Okay. I guess it would help put more into the chamber if you cooled both the air and the fuel, but the ECU is designed to push more fuel in depending on O2 conditions. Would this not cause some problems w/ too cool fuel with too cool air?

If I ever get a turbo, I think I'd look at the intercooler solution. If it's really a buck for a pound of refill (alot less than gas is now-a-days), and I could get a good size tank and a steady flow over an entire track (during the race) period, it might be nice.