Back pressure in N/A cars
09-02-2009, 05:07 PM
#26
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In the end a simple midpipe is nothing more than a pipe with 2 flanges. If the welds are good on all of them and the flanges are thick enough not to warp then there shouldn't be an advantage of one over the other. However are the welds from each company comparable to the others? Are the flange thicknesses acceptable on all of them?
When it comes to the presilenced (resonated) midpipes, the above apply but of course we add in the silencer itself. This can get tricky. Is it a proper perforated core style or is it louvered? Is it stainless packing or fiberglass? Then you just have to realize that depending on what the packing is, how tight it is packed, and total silencer length and area will all play a role in the sound. Just because there is a silencer doesn't mean it will sound good. Some may sound great while others may not and may be raspy. Ask around to those who have each kind.
As far as why to buy BHR, it's really a simple decision for some. Ray is a great guy with great service. He has literally travelled across the country on his own dime to help others out and his support is great. He also doesn't sell crap. If it sounded bad or didn't perform as it should, you can be sure he wouldn't sell it. Does he cost more on some things than other places? Maybe. Some people are content to shop at Walmart for everything while others would rather go to specialty stores for better products. It really depends on the individual. Walmart sells lots of clothes. None of mine came from there. I prefer to support the small hard working individual. That keeps the money domestic. It's funny to mention that when talking about a Japanese car!
In the end it's up to you. Do your homework and make an educated choice. If it's Racing Beat then cool. I support them. They're a great shop with a good history. If it's for BHR then cool. Just know that there are many people out there that chose them who are very satisfied and glad they did. If Ray ever started bottling water, it would probably sell!
09-02-2009, 07:38 PM
#27
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I am all about quality, so when you say "build quality is important to some of us," please don't think you're excluding me...
A midpipe is not something that takes a whole lot of development, like many other companies. A simply designed midpipe will net roughly the same amount as a more expensive one. I agree some of the other products are great and prove to be well thought out, it just strikes me that the midpipes seem expensive. Not bashing, I just can't see myself spending $425 (let alone $575) on a pipe that does nearly the same thing as some other products.
A midpipe is not something that takes a whole lot of development, like many other companies. A simply designed midpipe will net roughly the same amount as a more expensive one. I agree some of the other products are great and prove to be well thought out, it just strikes me that the midpipes seem expensive. Not bashing, I just can't see myself spending $425 (let alone $575) on a pipe that does nearly the same thing as some other products.
If you honestly think you can design a better product for a smaller price then I encourage you to open your own business and do so.
Otherwise I am more than willing to put our products up against any other vendor that produces similar products.
The one aspect BHR did with the mid-pipe design is test various resonators until we found one which not only produced the sound we wanted and a near stock loudness but also did so without having to resort to using two resonators. We are not bandwagon jumpers and we didn't buy into the notion that the RX8 could only be quieted with two resonators. That fact has been proven with our mid-pipe.
Quality and performance without compromise is our design strategy. There are dozens upon dozens of midpipes out there for the RX8 and 99% of them all sound the same. The 1% that does sound different people were paying much more money than what we are charging and they had to deal with parts that could not withstand the high exhaust gas temperatures of the RX8 as well as fitment problems.
We were not going to waste time designing a midpipe unless it was the best out there. We are working with a local fabrication company that produces headers for pretty much every major funny car team you can name. Like with other products we find the best of the best and bring that quality into our own products.
We also make sure you don't have to source all your own hardware for the installation. We include all the bolts and gaskets necessary for the install. We have thought out every possible detail to ensure the installation and use of our products is as painless as possible.
I'll have this mid-pipe on my own RX8 at Sevenstock so I encourage everyone there to come by and have a listen/look for yourself.
Thanks RG and everyone else for your comments! I don't mind people challanging our stuff because none of us at BHR believe that "trust us" is enough when it comes to justifying why what we make is the best. You all as customers are the best judge of our product quality and our customer service quality. If we sucked at both we wouldn't be here...period.
09-02-2009, 11:05 PM
#28
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Yeesh, I got myself in here deep now didn't I! For the record, as I've already stated, I think what Charles has done is great, beyond so in fact. I was just playing a bit of devil's advocate.
Hopefully my posts weren't taken the wrong way. I wasn't exactly challenging your product, just a bit of critical comparison. I never said I could create a better product, let alone for the same price. My idea of a budget resonated midpipe would be hacking out the OE cat, welding in a pipe, and leaving the resonator 
It just struck me, as I was reading the other thread, that a midpipe could reach nearly 6 bills. Seemed a bit steep but I suppose those who are **** enough to want a stock sounding car will enjoy.
I guess BHR crew has had its hair up on the back from the stupid attacks from other forum members. I wasn't attacking, just making valid questions and comparisons. I think that's fair enough, didn't mean anything aggressive by any means!
Lastly - RG, did you just compare Racing Beat to Walmart? Hopefully RB doesn't have sweat shops in 3rd world countries!
Tilt,
If you honestly think you can design a better product for a smaller price then I encourage you to open your own business and do so.
Otherwise I am more than willing to put our products up against any other vendor that produces similar products.
The one aspect BHR did with the mid-pipe design is test various resonators until we found one which not only produced the sound we wanted and a near stock loudness but also did so without having to resort to using two resonators. We are not bandwagon jumpers and we didn't buy into the notion that the RX8 could only be quieted with two resonators. That fact has been proven with our mid-pipe.
Quality and performance without compromise is our design strategy. There are dozens upon dozens of midpipes out there for the RX8 and 99% of them all sound the same. The 1% that does sound different people were paying much more money than what we are charging and they had to deal with parts that could not withstand the high exhaust gas temperatures of the RX8 as well as fitment problems.
We were not going to waste time designing a midpipe unless it was the best out there. We are working with a local fabrication company that produces headers for pretty much every major funny car team you can name. Like with other products we find the best of the best and bring that quality into our own products.
We also make sure you don't have to source all your own hardware for the installation. We include all the bolts and gaskets necessary for the install. We have thought out every possible detail to ensure the installation and use of our products is as painless as possible.
I'll have this mid-pipe on my own RX8 at Sevenstock so I encourage everyone there to come by and have a listen/look for yourself.
Thanks RG and everyone else for your comments! I don't mind people challanging our stuff because none of us at BHR believe that "trust us" is enough when it comes to justifying why what we make is the best. You all as customers are the best judge of our product quality and our customer service quality. If we sucked at both we wouldn't be here...period.
If you honestly think you can design a better product for a smaller price then I encourage you to open your own business and do so.
Otherwise I am more than willing to put our products up against any other vendor that produces similar products.
The one aspect BHR did with the mid-pipe design is test various resonators until we found one which not only produced the sound we wanted and a near stock loudness but also did so without having to resort to using two resonators. We are not bandwagon jumpers and we didn't buy into the notion that the RX8 could only be quieted with two resonators. That fact has been proven with our mid-pipe.
Quality and performance without compromise is our design strategy. There are dozens upon dozens of midpipes out there for the RX8 and 99% of them all sound the same. The 1% that does sound different people were paying much more money than what we are charging and they had to deal with parts that could not withstand the high exhaust gas temperatures of the RX8 as well as fitment problems.
We were not going to waste time designing a midpipe unless it was the best out there. We are working with a local fabrication company that produces headers for pretty much every major funny car team you can name. Like with other products we find the best of the best and bring that quality into our own products.
We also make sure you don't have to source all your own hardware for the installation. We include all the bolts and gaskets necessary for the install. We have thought out every possible detail to ensure the installation and use of our products is as painless as possible.
I'll have this mid-pipe on my own RX8 at Sevenstock so I encourage everyone there to come by and have a listen/look for yourself.
Thanks RG and everyone else for your comments! I don't mind people challanging our stuff because none of us at BHR believe that "trust us" is enough when it comes to justifying why what we make is the best. You all as customers are the best judge of our product quality and our customer service quality. If we sucked at both we wouldn't be here...period.
It just struck me, as I was reading the other thread, that a midpipe could reach nearly 6 bills. Seemed a bit steep but I suppose those who are **** enough to want a stock sounding car will enjoy.I guess BHR crew has had its hair up on the back from the stupid attacks from other forum members. I wasn't attacking, just making valid questions and comparisons. I think that's fair enough, didn't mean anything aggressive by any means!
Lastly - RG, did you just compare Racing Beat to Walmart? Hopefully RB doesn't have sweat shops in 3rd world countries!
09-03-2009, 12:57 AM
#29
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Yeesh, I got myself in here deep now didn't I! For the record, as I've already stated, I think what Charles has done is great, beyond so in fact. I was just playing a bit of devil's advocate.
Hopefully my posts weren't taken the wrong way. I wasn't exactly challenging your product, just a bit of critical comparison. I never said I could create a better product, let alone for the same price. My idea of a budget resonated midpipe would be hacking out the OE cat, welding in a pipe, and leaving the resonator It just struck me, as I was reading the other thread, that a midpipe could reach nearly 6 bills. Seemed a bit steep but I suppose those who are **** enough to want a stock sounding car will enjoy.
I guess BHR crew has had its hair up on the back from the stupid attacks from other forum members. I wasn't attacking, just making valid questions and comparisons. I think that's fair enough, didn't mean anything aggressive by any means!
Hopefully my posts weren't taken the wrong way. I wasn't exactly challenging your product, just a bit of critical comparison. I never said I could create a better product, let alone for the same price. My idea of a budget resonated midpipe would be hacking out the OE cat, welding in a pipe, and leaving the resonator
It just struck me, as I was reading the other thread, that a midpipe could reach nearly 6 bills. Seemed a bit steep but I suppose those who are **** enough to want a stock sounding car will enjoy.I guess BHR crew has had its hair up on the back from the stupid attacks from other forum members. I wasn't attacking, just making valid questions and comparisons. I think that's fair enough, didn't mean anything aggressive by any means!
There is always going to be a more inexpensive way to complete any project. I simply wanted to comment that our pipe isn't the same as every other mid-pipe out there.
We don't use dual resonators and our single resonator actually quiets down the exhaust while producing a tone that allows the unique properties of your cat-back exhaust to be heard. These elements as well as the excellent build quality are all elements that carry the price we have.
However, people have clearly paid much more for much less.
09-03-2009, 01:08 AM
#30
the OE exhaust manifold outlet is approx. 2-5/8" OD
It's correct that the Renesis performs best with zero backpressure, but there is no real scavenging in a stock-block Renesis due to the zero overlap intake/exhaust port timing. You can't be too big given this fact, but you can be too small ...
the standard piping choices are 2.5" OD or 3" OD, this is why you rarely see anything inbetween them unless it's an imported metric part
It's correct that the Renesis performs best with zero backpressure, but there is no real scavenging in a stock-block Renesis due to the zero overlap intake/exhaust port timing. You can't be too big given this fact, but you can be too small ...
the standard piping choices are 2.5" OD or 3" OD, this is why you rarely see anything inbetween them unless it's an imported metric part
beers
09-03-2009, 09:31 AM
#31
Registered
I didn't compare Racing Beat to Walmart at all. I know those guys over there and I think everyone should support them when possible. My Walmart comment was really aimed at the cheap China made mass produced crap that is all over ebay.
09-03-2009, 10:51 AM
#32
mind my ignorance please, for I am about to question--what might rather be a mundane term to some--what N.A. means. I looked up in a dictionary, but nothing relates to the context of how the abbreviation is being used here.
09-03-2009, 09:27 PM
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Sure.
Since prices are always a consideration, I'll point out that RB's pipe is $339 before shipping. BHR's is $425 with shipping in the 48 States included.
They both use 304 Stainless, have nice-fitting flanges, and mid-hangers.
I am impressed that RB is using the factory spring/stud kits because they are not cheap. BHR uses a Vibrant spring/stud kit that is of equal quality and a bit cheaper. We both probably also include all the hardware/gaskets, too.
From what I can see the welds are of comparable quality.
I would say that both pipes are equal along all lines except for what matters most; the chosen resonator/silencer.
While RB is using a pair of custom-designed silencers we are using a single off-the-shelf unit that, apparently, nobody else considered or wanted to use and we are having it custom-tweaked to our specs, too. It is my understanding that the RB silencers are a straight-through design with packing in it that is said to be able to withstand the high heat content. Ours has no packing in it and it is not a straight-through design.
I also believe that there is a 6 lb. (or more) difference in weight between the two pipes. The BHR midpipe weighs 10.9 lbs.
I am also guessing that whichever midpipe one chooses they will not be disappointed and THAT may be the toughest decision of all for people!
Since prices are always a consideration, I'll point out that RB's pipe is $339 before shipping. BHR's is $425 with shipping in the 48 States included.
They both use 304 Stainless, have nice-fitting flanges, and mid-hangers.
I am impressed that RB is using the factory spring/stud kits because they are not cheap. BHR uses a Vibrant spring/stud kit that is of equal quality and a bit cheaper. We both probably also include all the hardware/gaskets, too.
From what I can see the welds are of comparable quality.
I would say that both pipes are equal along all lines except for what matters most; the chosen resonator/silencer.
While RB is using a pair of custom-designed silencers we are using a single off-the-shelf unit that, apparently, nobody else considered or wanted to use and we are having it custom-tweaked to our specs, too. It is my understanding that the RB silencers are a straight-through design with packing in it that is said to be able to withstand the high heat content. Ours has no packing in it and it is not a straight-through design.
I also believe that there is a 6 lb. (or more) difference in weight between the two pipes. The BHR midpipe weighs 10.9 lbs.
I am also guessing that whichever midpipe one chooses they will not be disappointed and THAT may be the toughest decision of all for people!
09-03-2009, 09:56 PM
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09-04-2009, 03:16 AM
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I tried to get Charles to throw in a Russian bride to order but I guess there's not only some major paperwork but the shipping costs are pretty high.
It's bad enough we have to pay the models to answer the phone at MazdaManiac's place these days!
It's bad enough we have to pay the models to answer the phone at MazdaManiac's place these days!
12-23-2009, 08:02 PM
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I was in the same boat as Tiltmode. I was literally about to order the RB Dual Resonated Pipe simply because of their price and also because I live in Anaheim. However, when I figured in the 9.75% Sales Tax that us Californians have to pay:
- BHR is $425 shipped to me and I don't have to do any driving around town.
- Racing Beat is $372.05 picked up.
I like the idea of having no fiberglass packing (as you had mentioned for their resonators). Why? I have had NUMEROUS cars in the past that would generate enough heat to break down the packing. Would I want that from a rotary-engined car that generates even more exhaust heat? No.
You got my attention. As soon as production goes back in, I'm ordering!
01-01-2010, 06:29 PM
#45
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I have to say .... I have the AP Dual res mid pipe and it is a bit to raspy for my tastes ... AP mid pipe and greddy sp2 combo is really loud and a bit raspy ... While I love the flow, EG temps, and weight reduction from the stock system -- I really wish I had all that with a quieter system!
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