valpac

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I'm going to float this idea by the members once more

As a club that seeks to finance items for the club (i.e. hats, banners, shirts, logos, pop-ups, etc) maybe we need to re-visit the idea of club dues.

A small contribution of say, $10 (not a bank breaker) a month from members would go a long way in funding club items. Also, as the treasury grows we can use the money for other things as well. I think as a club we should gather to do other things besides car related events. We could meet for wings or things, sporting events, movies or other social events with the club picking up the tab.

And car stuff is what we like most. We could fund a club dyno day or example. We could buy track items that one member could bring to the track rather than everyone bringing duplicate jacks, torque wrenches, etc. We could buy swag at races. Dues could help lodging costs. Dues might purchase race tickets.

As a group we would decide how to spend the money. Requests for dues and how to spend the money should be communicated via personal email not the forums. This would serve a couple of purposes. First, ideas would not get buried on the forums were members might miss something important. Its difficult to find the wheat in all the chaff. Secondly, money transactions and group decisions should be relatively private. Important club business should be kept discrete.

Since many people are busy, I would be happy to offer my services as treasurer. Financial statements would be provided, I think quarterly, reporting the assets and expenditures.

Dues are a good way enhance our club and get to meet members at other events. I mentioned this idea to the group months ago, I think now is the time to re-visit it. Discuss.

L8APEX

I agree with you on all points. I know we went over this wonce before, and it sort of got pushed to the back burner. One of the things that is going to come up is, how do we decide who pays dues. We all know, that there are some of us that do everything, or close to everythign the club does. Then there are some, that just read the forums. How do we draw the line, because telling someone who has not come to a single event, or comes to one event every three or four months, that they need to pay $10 a month, will deter them from coming out to anything, since they will not see it ias a good investment on their part.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for this idea. As someone who has willingly put out a lot of money to provide things to the group at our events, and I am not the only one, I like the idea, and would be more than happy to pay my dues on a monthly basis. I would like to see the food for a barber trip, minus any specialties and booze of course, to come from a club fund. I think that as we are growing, and doing more, it only makes sense.

-L8

valpac

iTrader: (2)

Dues are a commitment. Once you start paying dues you certainly are going to want to enjoy the benefits of the club. And you will show up and be part of the group.

If you decide not to pay dues, that doesn't exclude you from events per se, but may limit what the club provides the member.

If a fellow member wants to eat some free wings (not dues current), that would be ok. But that member will probably have to get current before the next event.

If the club decides to purchase tix for some event, then those members who are current with dues would get one, those who arent can certainly participate, but will have to pay their own way.

It's kind of self governing. Those members who let dues lag will be gently prodded, once. Also, when the group decides to spend money on ourselves those slow or non-payers will be able to get current and be counted in or refuse payment and opt out. Spreadsheets are great for keeping track.

L8APEX

then you have obviously thought about it a lot. and what you have outlined looks good to me.

SOFLA RX CLUB

Hello guys...

My name is Val and I founded the SO FLA RX CLUB here in Miami.. It caters to all rotary powered vehicle owners from the R100 - to RX7 to the RX-8. We also have a few Toyotas, Honda's with 13B motors in it.

I have my club set up this way... Everyone is permitted to attend the events such as Meets, and BBQ's. The members that pay dues that are close to $100.00 annually may get to eat because it is included as part of their membership but the non paying members have to contribute about $5.00 per person at the BBQ's.

I have a business that caters to RX7's and RX8's in Miami and I also have associations with places such as Racing Beat and other Mazda related businesses and even performance shops where the paying members get discounts at 10-20 % above my dealer cost.

Each member will recieve a plasticized ID card with our Club Logo and they will be entitled to a small window decal, a club t shirt, ball cap, and a nice Pit Crew shirt with our club logo and on the front will be there forum name. Of course each member will have access to our club website and each one will have their own email address on our server such as for example: valpac@soflarxclub . com

The paying members may go to the area businesses where I have contracts with and they will get a discount on services and products. There have been a select few that have tried to get over claiming that they are members and I will get a call from the business owner letting me know what has transpired. They are taken care of but not at the same rate discount that a paying member is entitled to. No one is made to feel bad by their actions but the rest of the club does find out about it... I dont have to point fingers.

Whenever I recieve an invite from one of the sponsors as there was one that has a huge property and land I do invite the paying members and its a really nice party.

There are benefits to being a paid member ... no one is discriminated against... all can attend the public meets and outings. There is just a line drawn as to how much they are capable or participating in.

The dues are important for the success of the club.. it pays for advertising.. flyers, food, specialties etc etc etc. I have had to foot the costs up to this point... why ? because like you I have had people who really participate and get involved toward the success of the club and its programs and I have had others that just sit on in the sidelines as spectators.. Its not easy..

We have a guy in our club that donated a 1993 FD RX7 for our project Track & Drift Car to be used by the paying members...

I can give you the info of our web designer that doesnt charge a lot to build the site.

We have officers in place that will be announced this coming month...
President
Vice President
Treasurer
Secretary
Assistant Director 1
Assistant Director 2
Web Designer

If you should have any questions please feel free to call me at 786-286-3351

Val
SO FLA RX CLUB - Founder

TrackAddict

I have been on the fence with regards to dues and have once voiced support for them. I think I can be swayed in either direction. That being said, I do not want a $10/month bill. I think that by itself will severly limit the size of the group. The website was sponsored so it can exist without the burdon of supporting members. In a short time we had a lot of people sign up. I don't think that would happen if it involved costs. A pay as you go program allows each individual to choose their level of involvement. Not everyone wants to autocross or dyno or eat wings. We can still arrange many events (as we have successfully done for the past 1.5 years!) Maybe we need to reach out to people who are in the area but have different interests as well. I look at our spectacular RA event planned for March and am very impressed with the group so far. I also like that we are open to non RX8s as well. All this is possible because we make it easy.
Now as far as purchasing "club items" such as EZ Ups or banners, that is a topic that will require some more discussions. Shirts are easy because you get one if you pay for it. We can sell GARX8 club shirts as a fundraiser item. We can do other fund raising activities as well.
I guess I am on the no-fee side at this time but I have an open mind and am open to additional persuation.

Long live the track hos,
Your addict.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the information, Val. It sounds like your club is very diverse and inclusive. Also it sounds like you guys have fun outings. I would like to chat withyou more off-line about how to make our club better.

That is the kind of thing I'd like to see happen with our club, too. And I believe it will take some positive cash flow to open up opportunities.

Currently, our group is rather small with just a few hardcore "members" that show up for most anything. I believe dues are the next step in alowing group participation. People who pay dues have a vested interest in the group and I think participation can only increase. Sure there will always be sideliners which is natural but I think we have too many "members" that dont show up. And the reason is we lack diversity in our events. (Wanted: Events planner)

It is true that we all have different interests (auto-x, tracking, dynos, working on their cars). Some members will never want to track their cars or dyno for example, but I'm sure most members like to drive, eat, socialize and talk about their cars. Events like BBQ's, show & shines, fund raisers will allow members that would normally never meet get together to chat about a variety of subjects.

This is the area our club is lacking in. As a group we've had great events in the past and will have great ones in the future. However, they are few and far between. Social meetings will bridge the gap between major events and keep interest in our club high. Over BBQ or wings we get to hear what other members like to do. In that way, members might be persuaded to try new things. Socializing enables members to find common ground and possibly make new friends. Its all good.

JerryLH3

Dues are a touchy subject. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but you have to step up the organization immensely if you do start charging them. Money has to be accounted for, because somehow, someway, no matter how much you think it won't happen to you, it will happen and things will get ugly.

I was an officer in the now (essentially) defunct Mazda Rotary Car Club of Florida from 2001 to 2004. I've seen what good a club can do, but I've also seen how it can get totally screwed up.

While I definitely am encouraged by Val's effort, that club is relatively new. There's really no way to tell how that will turn out, but I wish him the best.

Now, that being said, don't screw things up guys. There's a very real possibility that when I graduate, I'll move to Georgia and buy an RX-8.

SilverEIGHT

There are a lot of very good ideas above my post and there are some I would be somewhat concerned about. First let me say that it makes me feel great that we have so much interest that we are discussing dues, memberships, and how do we handle things. This is a good sign that we are developing into a true club. If this is going to become a card holding, dues paying, board member, parliamentary procedural club then this is going to become work. I've been involved with organizations and functioned as Committee Chairman, Treasurer, Assistant Scout Masters and such and it is WORK! Now that I've said that...

1. I'm for yearly dues of $25
2. I'm for what Val from FL said about members not having to pay for things and non-members paying a nominal fee.
3. I'm for a treasure making reports and keeping them online for everyone to see where we stand.
4. I'm for a defined group of leaders.
5. I'm for committee decision making not online decisions.
6. I'm for writing a set of bi-laws and sticking to them.
7. I'm for setting a calendar of events in Jan/Feb after dues have been received so you have a budget for making decisions.
8. I'm for making this a real club... but...

Trust me on this one as I know from experience and after 53 years, I have my share. The work load will fall on 2 to 3 people and it will be those same ones repeatedly.

I don't want this to become work. I'm too old to make more work. I want to enjoy being with my friends, driving my car and acting like dumb *** online. This is my levity and excitement in life and I will never be the same because of it. It's fun guys. I'm for structure but let's not make it too confining and exclusive.

I have talked with many of the younger members that really can't afford to be paying members. One is 16 years old, one is 18 and these guys are students. I'm all for letting them be members also but if you request monthly dues, I think this would be exclusion. Some of us are doing pretty well these days making money; some people just don't have it to give.

My 2 cents!

If I made any spelling or grammar errors f**k it! I'm not going back to correct anything.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

1. I'm for yearly dues of $25- Two dollars a month seems a bit small. Too little money will limit us.
2. I'm for what Val from FL said about members not having to pay for things and non-members paying a nominal fee. Yes, thats what I envision too
3. I'm for a treasure making reports and keeping them online for everyone to see where we stand. - NOT on-line. Noone but the member and the treasurer needs to know the personal financial status of individual members. Privacy.
4. I'm for a defined group of leaders. We are all the leaders. Not in favor of presidents, VP's, thats too rigid. At a minimum we will need a treasurer and a secretary.
5. I'm for committee decision making not online decisions. Yes, see #4
6. I'm for writing a set of bi-laws and sticking to them. Not sure what this entails or the purpose. More discussion is necessary
7. I'm for setting a calendar of events in Jan/Feb after dues have been received so you have a budget for making decisions. Nothing written in stone that early in the year. Our decision need to remain flexible because things happen and will require re-visiting as dates approach.
8. I'm for making this a real club... Me, too.

I am sure work will be needed. And it may fall on but a few members but that is a given. Those who want to make the club better and take responsiblilty for that happening should be comfortable with donating time and effort. I am.

But lets not tilt at windmills here. We're not talking about ditch diggin here.
Anything worth having is worth working for.

I think the way the club is structured now its more exclusive than inclusive. I have said it previously that our limited events (tracking, dynos and auto-x) are not everyones cup o' tea. Some people may feel that our group is too hardcore track fanatics and wont want to participate. By not catering to the many interests of other RX-8 owners we've already become exclusive.

A word on younger members. They are certainly welcome to attend any club activity. And if they cant afford dues, thats ok, too. Like the othe Val said, they can pay nominal fees at the events. Thats easy.

It is not my intent to exclude those younger members by requiring dues. Just the opposite. Not every event will be club funded, some will be every man/woman for themselves, some will be pot luck, etc. Dont you think our club will benefit and be more fun with new faces and new ideas showing up?

It doesnt cost much to hang out at a BBQ (thanks Travis for the idea) or bring a pack of hot dogs or some chips.

SilverEIGHT

We open our arms to any and everyone, no matter what you drive or how young or old you are. When a new comer ask “what does it take to join”, we say "you just did". When someone has an idea we discuss it. If the idea does not draw interest we drop it. We do not ask for dues, only for participation. Usually the event or get together does require money and would even if we paid dues.

Everyone has an equal opportunity to suggest things or plan events. Not everyone really wants to participate. It seems those that are more aggressive at attending events are the ones that post suggestions. That is not going to change.

Charging $120 a year would make it so exclusive you would have less than a hand full of members and everyone else would feel left out.

L8APEX's suggestion of a cookout is right in line with our simple strategy and is why it works so well.

KISMIF (Keep it simple, make it fun!)

valpac

iTrader: (2)

Joining and participating are two entirely different things. Its easy to think you're being inclusive by inviting all comers, its difficult to provide a welcome environment for all those you think you just initiated.

Why is everyone afraid that only a handful of members will remain after dues are put in place? Look around, we only have a few members right now. (but maybe thats the intent). Whether you want to admit it or not, the group IS rather exclusive.

Ask around to our "many members" and see if they feel apart of or separate from.

L8APEX

you keep saying that we are alienating other members, or not inclusive to anyone else. Tell me when someone other that the usuals threw out an idea for something to do. How many are actually reading most of the stuff we put up on the two forums. I can't include someone, if they won't participate. But I am trying.

It is not fair to assume that we do NOT want new members, or other people to participate, that is just flat wrong. So stop saying that, I am tired of it. I dont want to **** anyone off, but I get tired of hearing the same speech over and over.

A welcome environment has been provided, one where we are open to any and all suggestions for something new to do. Do you have any ideas for events or outings, or something for the club as a group to do? If you do, by all means, please, post it up, arrange it, organize it. It is one thing to sit back and point fingers at the people that are actually doing something, and tell them they are doing it wrong, or are ignoring others, but if you are not going to step up and become a solution to what you see is the problem, then stop pointing fingers. I don't have the time to organize everything we do, not saying I have, but it takes more than one or two or three people to come up with all of the ideas, and to try and get everyone interested. I have a job, working over 60 hours a week, a wife, and other things to do, as well as the Georgia RX-8 Club, I can't let the club consume me, and I wont.

I seriously doubt that dues will mean that we do more events, or have more group parties. Pay as you go, and cover your own, seems to have worked for a while now. I am going to chat with someone that is involved with one of the other large groups in the country, and see what they do. THey seems to have good turnout, and I want to know how they do it.

Don't take anyhting I said personal, it is not meant to bash anyone. I just dont know that I want to pay $120 a year, to do the things I already do, on top of the money I already spend. I want to have fun, and I hope it stays that way, I truly enjoy hanging out with everyone, and dont' want that to end, just because we want to collect dues.

My two cents, I will try to keep my trap shut now.

-L8

valpac

iTrader: (2)

My posts about exclusivity vs inclusivity are a response to the members who think everything is fine and nothing new need be done. At some point you need to recognize the elephant in the room. Sorry if its obvious to me and not obvious to others. Thats all I'm trying to point out by speaking "over and over" on this topic. Look, I think of myself a pretty active member, show up for most events and would like nothing more than to see the group thrive. Yet, I feel like our club is exclusive (oh no, said the e word again). Dont you think there is something to that? Examine the evidence. Very few members, very few events, and a member (me) that thinks we could do more to be more inviting.

Noone should pretend to have the corner on ideas for our group. Also as a new group we probably can do well to seek advice from others. Many people have good ideas but we need to seek them out not vice versa. People need to feel free and comfortable about floating out new ideas for the group.

Before you can fix a problem you have to recognize that problem even exists. What I'm hearing from the most active members is that none exists. You three members seem fine with the status quo. I am not saying that implementing dues is the answers but if you dont think there is a problem and like the club as it is, fine. I get it.

Talk about resistance to change.

L8APEX

Val, I am not resistant to change. I realize, and can see with my own two eyes that we do a lot of things revolving around tracking the car in one way or another. I understand that. Is that a problem no, do we need to try and do more, yes, do we need support from other members, yes. Don't corner the market on knowing what is wrong.

It is not a matter of resistance to change, it is just a matter of development, no one has ever said, HELL NO, I aint doin no cookout, or car show. It is just a matter of it has not been suggested. We can't do, what has not been suggested. Now it has. Lets move on to planning that, and quit spinning our wheels on whether or not we need dues.

What we need is group involvment, something that would be very beneficial, and quite necessary. I'm all for it, all for change if you want to call it that. I like to think of it more as expansion, adding to our repetoire of activities.

Whether or not you see wild animals in the room or not, well, maybe you need to lay off the LSD

Would you like to help plan the cookout? Becuase I am quite sure that I can't do it by mylself, and although it is not officially scheduled, I would like to get it scheduled, get it run by everyone, see if the dates that have been suggested work for everyone. So how about it?

valpac

iTrader: (2)

I said was interested in your cook out suggestion. But this thread is about dues. Spinning our wheels about dues? This is the discussion. Are you saying its a dead issue?

TrackAddict

The way things are going, I am not in favor of dues or a formalized structure. The group right now does exactly what I am interested in doing. I have led the charge on many events and suggest things that interest me. I also participate in just about everything. Apparently a good number of people feel like I do since they have joined me at Barber, RA for the ARRC, and track day events to name some things I have tossed out there. I don't want to be a social director responsible for everyone having a good time. I have enough responsibilities and obligations in my life already and I find myself loaded up on those. I currently have a group of friends that I can hang out with doing stuff I want to do. I probably will continue doing what I do with a lot of the same people I currently hang with regardless of the existance of a dues paying formal club. Inclusive or exclusive - this is an open group and if someone wants to get together for a knitting competition they can arrange it. I can't promise I will attend but I will promise that I will not feel like I have been excluded.
I am not shooting down any ideas, just offering up my current take on the subject.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

No one asked you to be a social director. In fact, no one is asking you to commit any more time to the club. Only asking for you to contribute some money for the benefit of all. Pretty glib comment about knitting competitions. Is that what you think I mean by adding other events?

L8APEX

glib comments come from everyone, so don't get in a twist about it, you are guilty of the same thing.

I have one question, and it has been on my mind since this issue resurfaced. What is your main goal, or what do you feel like the main accomplishment will be by collecting dues? I have yet to figure that out, and just thought I would ask.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

I'll twist anyway I like, ok?

re-read my first post (and my subsequent posts)

I would like the membership to grow and see participation increase in ALL types of events. Want the club to me more attractive to all types of 8 owners, not just track-ho's. Is that a bad thing?

It may be time for a new club.

L8APEX

i have read all your posts, more than once. I just don't see how collecting dues will draw more members. I think, as it has been said, that it will turn people away. I do realize that the dues paying members will be more active, but I don't see it working the way you want it to. As we are now we are open to anyone and everyone, and we CAN work toward attracting other members who are not track ho's, which if I am not mistaken you are part of that particular faction of this ragtag group. Is it time for a new club, I don't see why, we have all put a lot into this one, do you hate the rest of us that much, think that we are too stubborn, that your only way to fix it, is ditch it. Sorry you feel that way. I see that your ideal solution would be to start over, and just abandon everything that has been done so far. Even though you once said, and i quote:


Lets work on the group we have.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

Hate's a pretty strong word. Dont feel that way at all.

As far as turning people away, we havent tried it so noone knows whether it would be successful or not. I think it would help the club, others do not. The bottom line is many clubs have membership fees, dues, fundraisers and the like. The group having money to do things with is not a bad thing.

Look at it this way, you want to have a BBQ (which is cool and I'm on board ). But the few active members we have right now will have to shoulder all the expense. However, if everyone contributed a little money now and then, the expense or the BBQ will be spread amongst a lot more people. Less burdensome to all.

Contrary to popular opinion, I'm not a track ho.

I am trying to work on the club we have. This is what I think would be good.

L8APEX

Okay, sub in dislike us and our views if that fits better. Or just tell us what the real problem is. Cause I can't figure it out, some of us try a lot to make this group better, and try to make it something people want to participate in. And it seems to be working as far as I can tell.

what do we need money to do that we don't do already. This way, we all pay our own way, rather than use the money of others, to pay for things we want to do, especially if they can't make it. Nothing will **** people off more, than their dues being used for something that they had no participation in. And then, we really get into problems, and it will not be fun anymore. I prefer fun.

If only 10 people show up, we won't need a lot. The number of people showing up, directly effects how much we need. So the cost per person, would be proportionate. Not exorbitant. Seems fair to me. Goes back to my last point, which is really part of the aversion to paying dues really.

How so, you have nothing but problems with how things are done, from the forum rules, not being diverse enough to attract a variety of owners, to wanting to collect dues despite everyone else not feeling the same.

I still don't see you motivation with this. If it is getting more variety to the club, and getting other members to participate, there are better ways than collecting money from everyone.

TrackAddict

I agree with L8APEX. This "club" has done the following things over the past 1.5 years:

track days
gone to races
dyno sessions
a photo shoot and fun at andretti
mountain drives
get togethers at Mazcare

None of these events cost any member who didn't attend a dime. None of these events made anyone feel unwelcome. The group is exclusive. It is exclusive to people who love cars. It has involved Mustang owners and EVO owners and is open to anyone with similar interests.

Cost issues - if you show up to participate in an event, you pay your way, period. The Porsche Club is national and has dues. So does the BMW club. Those club's dues are in the $40/year range. $120 is outragous. Maybe one day in the future we can consider this but right now, I want it the way it is, minus the crap.

Frankly, this bullshit discussion is more likely to turn people off than anything. If I was someone who considered joining this group of people and my only experience with them was reading this f'ed up thread, I would say screw it and go my own way. Good thing I have spent alot of time with the good people who regularly show up at the exclusive events we organize so I know better.

SilverEIGHT

Val, so what is your club name going to be?