track/street gauge readings
 

OK Guys/girls

I dont know why but i haven't seen any discussion in a thread dedicated to gauge readings. IE how hot is our oil getting, how hot is the coolant getting, is oil pressure affected by high g turns/stops etc. How hot is the oil getting during stop and go driving with a/c on and without. What temps does the fans come on and does it lower the coolant temp fairly fast. etc All you guys fest up with some readings here!!

I am looking at getting some gauges before my next track event. I sure wish more reasonabily price good looking dash pods were available. I may have to go with individual cup mount although I would prefer a pod. I AM NOT PAYING $500 for a dash gauge pod!
I dont like the A piller type so that leaves me with just the cups at present. :dunno:

Another option: I'm waiting to see the Racing Beat three gauge pod they are getting ready to release.

come on guys yall fest up your knowledge on this
OD

Oil temp on track in S. florida weather is at the 250 degree level. Using 20-50 Valvoline racing oil. temp reading comes from the drain plug sensor in the oil pan.

On the street it runs 210 to 225 in traffic it can creep up. 185 on cool days and med. speeds and no traffic.

Pressure depends on the point of reading. As the oil leaves the engine to the oil coolers the pressure is over 100 psi. It never goes down, even in corners. I was shocked with the 250 and called Speedsource. Sylvan said that 250 and above is not uncommon. Just as a precausion, i use an additive that I get from Petit Racing in the gas to give extra lubrication in the engine.

Hope this answers your question.

Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with: NASA, BMW CCA, PBOC

do you run standard coolant?

Standard with a bottle of water wetter added. Water temp in not a problem. Don't have a seperate guage for water temp, but have taken several readings from the cam scan port to my palm.

Jay

Is the water wetter something like Royal Purple Ice coolant additive?

Anyone else have experience with that or have comments on use in the 8?

Thanks Jay, That info does help. I believe I would want cooler street and track temps if I can get them. Didnt you install a 3nd oil cooler?
Olddragger

I'm still waiting on my damn gauge pod, but my oil temp sensor is a addon to the oil filter pod in the engine bay

No third cooler. Where would you put it. Don't want to ruin the little amount of air getting to the brakes. Also, I have the Mazda Speed Nose and I also opened up the two bottom slits in the wheel well to increase the outflow of air.

jay I have done the same thing to the wheel wells(stock nose) also ran some front brake ducts thru them. Road ATlanta really heats your brakes.
I believe that fluiddyne(sic) makes a oil cooler the right size to mount in the middle of the nose, right below the a/c condenser. Its only 5 to 6 inches high 21-23 inchews wide and only 2 inches thick. If an turbo intercooler can go on the front with no problems then i think a low profile oil cooler can also.
I am going to run with this everyone. It will take me awhile but stay tuned.
olddragger

Oldragger:

Who sells Fluiddyne coolers. I may join you in this. I will also ask Cam at Pettit what he thinks about adding a cooler. These temps really shake me up at times.

it has been done. i think it might be in the dyi section.

if you dont find it send me a pm i will hunt it down.

btw, jay could you throw me a bone on this one???

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/track-days-86675/

beers :beer:

MadDog added it: Custom Fluidyne Therm-HX 30816 oil cooler.

the thread i was refering to. solves lots of problems, oil cooling and oil changing. bigger cooler would be nice.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ght=oil+cooler

now if i can just find the link for where he got it.

beers :beer:

summitt racing sells the fluidyne coolers
olddragger

Oil pressure varies and I don't know if it is significant. I only notice it drops when it is cold or low in volume while cruising on highway.

Oil temp is ok since i have a 2nd MazdaSpeed oil cooler - the max I get on the track is 123 degree Cel. (253 F). Normally it runs at 80-90 degree Cel (194) in congested traffic.

Now I think I have problem with water temp.

I see gauges as I track my car, the water temp goes up to 105-110 C very quickly and in a 32 degree day in Melbourne - I get over 112 degree (233F). That is not good. That is with the fan controller to switch them on at full speed since Lap no 1. :eek:.

In congested traffic, the fan controller is wonderful. It sits at 82 degree with fan turned on. But once it is off. - it can get to 98 degree until the ECU turn the fan on at 99 degree.

Hence I have thought changing to a high volume radiator and big as fan!

Taka--thanks for the info. I too believe it would be better to have an additional oil cooler.
I do wonder what is up with your water temps. Never,never had a problem with water temps(as far as I can tell) summer, winter, track, street, the water temp stock gauge stays at the same mark. I even went to a 65/35 mix and a bottle of redline water wetter and it only dropped 1/2 notch on the stock gauge. Matter of fact even on a hot 100F day here in Ga, if i dont turn on the a/c and the road is not congested my cooling fans dont even come on. Cooling fans have never come on on the track.
But I am ordering my auto tec pro comp gauges (or prehaps stewart warner) this w/e. Racing beat has said theres will be out in a couple of weeks but they will be mechanical and only the 90 degree sweep gauges. I want electrical and the 270 sweep.
stay tuned
olddragger

The stock water gauges WILL stay at the same mark.

It is SO USELESS :dunno: that it rather not being there!

As a matter of fact. It does not move from 80 degree C to 100 degree C - I think it is not working! But it flips to the position at around 50 degree - and show in the CAN scanner but the coolant temp I measure at the gauges not correct until the termostat open at 82 C, since I put the sensor at the top tube.

why did they build such a great car then go cheap on the gauges? Man the wisdom ofsome people. and dont tell me a cost thing for Gods sake. anyway just got a aset of autometer pro comp gauges and i will get them installed asap
olddragger

Most likely Ford Marketing winning over Mazda Engineering. And these bafoons are also the same people that asked for a 4-port automatic I bet.

Don't know if this is relevant, from BMI Endurance Battle (20 minutes races in Tsukuba). The RX-8 had no oil temperature trouble (very high but stable reading) with one stock cooler but the water temperature was very high. This is without the license plate on. With the license plate on the water temperature was always over heating.

As for oil pressure fluctuations, it does occur on track. The best way (recommended by Spoon's CEO) is to use a smaller oil filter element and reinforce it using metal straps if that's what you call it.

You have missed or did not listen to the intro - it has "an option of MazdaSpeed oil cooler added".

I ordered one straight away after that Oct 2004 video. ;)

To me the licence plate is ok (I have a very small one that the diamond opening is not covered). Thanks god that Australian have done something right not cars.

If I have a MazdaSpeed front - I don't think the situation is reversed. I think the radiation is on full capacity on the track.

It is not a bad radiator. I was cruising in the slow traffic when I saw the water temp hits 100 degree (today is a 18 degree C day). I turn on the radiator fan (with an ECU fan controller) and within 1.5 minutes - it goes back to 82 degree.

If anyone interested to see. I have a clip stored in d00nson's server (thx d00ny) :mdrmed: :kiss:

What EMS are you using, and how are you able to control the ECU fan?

Here
http://www.billion-inc.co.jp/billion...VFC_index.html

Sorry about the Japanese, but I use the VFC II model.

It takes the signal from the ECU of what coolant temperature do you at. - use the switch to control the fan - which then overrides the factory settings.

There are 2 lines in the ECU to control the fan - I found out *(well according to Billion *cough cough) that it does not matter which is which. But one line activated - you get 2 fan operating at low speed; and when 2 lines are fired - the 2 fans operates at high speed.

I can actually map any fan controller including the HKS model - but I cannot guarantee (problem free) sucess. ;)

Idea is very simple. 4 lines: one earth, one take the coolant signal - a master board to control - and out put to the fan relay.

Cost $300 and a lot of pain to install.

I see 96 deg C water temps while cruising, 106 deg C water temps while sitting. This is in ambient temperatures around 50 to 70 deg F. Once summer hits I'm afraid to see what those temps will hit. I'm planning to buy an upgraded radiator and wire my fans to come on at a lower temp before summer. I've been told Mazda sets the fans to come on at 106 deg C and that seems to coincide with my observations. That's too high to keep the motor happy in my opinion. I've heard Mazda did that for emissions purposes. By keeping the idling temp high, emissions are reduced. I'm also currently running water wetter.

Cool thinking.

You know there is no official figure when the fan meant to turn on but I guess 100 is not the point ... hmm 106.

Not recommended to try it at home :lol:

What is your temp doing on the race track do you think with your G Reddy turbo. Mine gets to 112 degree on a 32 degree (air temp) day

Temps are too high for a n/a car. Heck the factory thermostat does not even fully open until 203F! Is there an aftermarket thermostat available? a 160 prehaps? Anyone know how to override our computer to install a lower fan activation temp? Takahashi--can your setup be done without a manuel switch? I wonder if we could just rewire the fans entirely with one of the aftermarket fan controllers?
Even though the oil temps are stable i still think they could be lower. And if the pressure drops on the track do we need some baffles or what? What do you mean a smaller oil filter element?
I wonder what affect the A/C has on water temps also (street driving). Great clip Takahashi
olddragger

I have not seen any real change in pressure on the track and I run a seperate oil pressure and temp guages. I do see on the street many changes in temperature. Ranging for a low of 180 degres F to a high of 240. On the track it stays at 250.

Oil starvation is not a problem with these cars, but fuel is. Tank must be above 1/2 full before a run group starts

Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with NASA, BMWCCA & PBOC

olddragger.

Yes it is kind of hot for a n/a car. Some one believes in me eventually :suspect:.

A thermostat is good but it does not lower the temp. Operating temp is 80s degree C and it is where it should stay. On winding road and on track, it will come up slower but it will get to 110 eventually.

My fan controller turns itself on when the sensor sensed a temp above a certain point. But prob with the Unichip that I have I got a battery signal when the fan is not active. It is to do with the MAF in the wiring of the ECU but heck I made a switch to turn on and off the unit when the car is warm. :rolleyes:

You can wire it yourself and have a manual switch on the dash. It is what most Japanese do.

Fuel starvation - it happens to me once when I was down to 1/4. So I guess if you want to have more fun - fill up to full. (hint: I do 200km+ of track time on each track day and go through a tank + of fuel.

250F oil temp on the track Steady state) High 240F on the street.
230F(110C) coolant temp on the track.
Too me a 250F oil temp is ok for the track if you are running a heavier than 20wt oil. Any higher and it is additional cooling time. A 240 F oil temp is too high for the street(for me) and I do realize that is the high range. Most of the time it will not be that.
a 230F(110C) Water temp for the track is too high and I agree with Takahashi on this. I realize a lower thermostat doesnt help for the track but for street a 160F one may help some.
WIth this info one thing I am sure of. My car is not going back on the track until I get my "real" gauges hooked up. We guys in The South East had better start paying attention to the temps when we are on the track and not rely on the dummy gauges to tell us everything. Also with a 230F temp not uncommon(?) I will make sure my coolant is mixed correctly and with not too much H2O in it.
Better radiator? if you track?
Anyothers want to join in?
Olddragger

Sorry man, I missed that (my copy had bad audio and static noise). I changed my license plate after watching that as well, did you get the MPS oil cooler or some other brands and how much did it cost you?

So the radiator is quite sufficient on track in your opinion, I don't have access to a track, is a single oil cooler enough for spirited driving in ambient temperature of 35 celcius max?

oldragger --
What issue do you have with mechanical gauges? Personally I've always preferred & used mechanical over electrical gauges.

Yes I have a MazdaSpeed oil cooler from Japan, cost AUD$600.

Radiator is sufficent for road and even "spirited" street driving.

Defi digital is the same as mechanical since the controller is the same.

Old dragger. I have done an experiment today. Looking at the dummy gauges on the dash, whille the Defi water temp is going from 80 degree C to 100 degree C. The dummy gauge does absolutely NOTHING.

Olddrager

Living is South Florida, I only use 20-50 Valvoline Racing oil. When I first saw high temp on track I freeked. Spoke to Sylvan at Speedsource and he assured me that it wasn't a problem.

Jay

I have recently installed the mazdaspeed defi gauge setup. Thanks for yor help taka.
I too am surprised/dismayed that the stock gauges are idiot lights in disquise.
The water temp is the most surprizing when you watch it go from 85 - 90 degree C to over 100 with no change in the stock gauge. I get a little neverous at over 100 degrees C.
I attended the NASA track event at Summit Point on April 1 & 2. My mazdaspeed gauges were not functioning at the time. Of course the stock gauges didn't move.

darnellm

100 degC (212 degF) is only the normal boiling point for pure water at sea level, nothing to be concerned about with a pressurized system containing glycol, shouldn't be any concern until it reaches 120 DegC ...

No prob darnellm. Welcome to forum mate.

What is the recommended parameters for water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure for the warning light - ? :suspect:

Someone needs those parameters here I think. :rolleyes:

RXeightr--i like mechanical gauges--that is what I bought--but the trick is where do I route the cables and lines for them. I am doing a center pod mount. I will figue that out.
I am really surprised that our water temp gauge is that much of a dummy--Takahashi and all you have been a big help with this.
Team it seems people are only 10C away from the danger zone. I would like a bigger margin for my street/track day car. I do live in the south and have tracked on days that was well over 90F. I will definitly us a higher weight oil for track sessions and also for summer driving. 20wgt will not do it IMO even for street driving in the summertime down south. I also have an unfinished plan to redo the radiator fan control and to add a small fan assisted 3nd oil cooler that can be mounted away from the front air intake area. --By the way anyone heard from Maddog and the results of his 3nd cooler install? I was thinking also of the possibility of an electric water pump setup but now I think that is a dead idea.(for now).
Jay I agree--heavier oil.
Takahashi--do you recommend an aftermarket radiator if you track day your car?
olddragger

I would love to see what you have for a gauge pod mount, I have a full set of Defi gauges waiting for install. I was kinda wondering that when I was at RA this weekend, and really didn't see the stock temp gauge move at all, but the oil coolers were hot enough to burn my hand....

Why run heavier oil? I'm assuming it would be a benefit to me, esp in the heat of the south, but up here in Wisconsin it can get darn hot during a weekend in August too.

there's always the Evans coolant option, I'm closing to installing mine but still won't have any temp data for quite some time

OD,

I am curious about what gauge pod you are looking into. I have not found many specific for the 8, and if I go downt he road of setting up gauges, I don't want them to look like all riced out and crappy.

^ x2

Team-- I have been looking at Evans also. Seems to be good stuff. The only trouble is it cant be mixed with ANYTHING else so unless you stock a supply and carry some around(just in case) you could end up the creek without a paddle. Sticking with my 65/35 mixture at present. Once I get my gauges in I may try some purple ice, water wetter or even the Evans radiator additive(not the stand alone coolant) and see if they have any effect.
L8 and Blue I refuse to pay $500 for a decent center pod mount and to go through the hassle of trying to get one. I also don't prefer the ashtray mount that RB is "coming out" with. and theirs will be a 90degree sweep small gauge type. Look down for a reading and look up and maybe have a wreck!
So--I am for now using the old gauge cup system per autometer and mounting on the center pod. Since I dont have the Nav system and all that space under the center pod is empty --once I have it apart I am going to see if I can mount maybe --through-- the center pod --somehow and it still look good. Sort of a recessed look? My gauges are liquid filled so any vibration will not affect them. If they where electrical the routing of the wires would not be a problem but the mechanical ones have bigger cables and it looks as if I may be drilling through the dash and through the firewall--still not sure yet--havent had a chance to look really close. There may be room through the main wiring harness or heater hose areas. besides after RB sensor adaptors and purchase of the gauges etc-if i can install them myself I will have only aprrox $400 in the entire setup. Thats liquid filled autometer pro comps that glow red at night(i changed the bulb color) and have black face with white numbers during the day. Good solid accuate gauges with a 270 sweep face!
Blue--heavier oil gives you better protection under higher temps. Speed source runs a 20w/50 on the track and Jay (here on this thread) does the same. I run synthetic and I am running 5/30 on the street presently and I may go up to a 10w/40 this summer. All this is tentative to my temps. Time to stop guessing.
Again I am really surprised at especially the water temp gauge being a dummy one on a car with a rotary engine--damn!Dummy oil pressure and water temp gauges--that is just stupid.
olddragger

I know about the price of the pod, but other than just screwing the cups to my dash there really are no options. :( only other problem I would have is all my gauges are non US spec for reading

i don't want to have a couple gauges bouncing around on my dash, I really like the way it looks now. Maybe I will look into the RB ones when they get released. I just wish the ones already in the car worked. I have known they were dummies from day 1, not many cars anymore actually use real gauges. just idiot lights for when something is wrong.

Kewl!....
 

Thicker oil may give you relatively more "protection", but you should be aware that it will also remove less heat.

The ideal mix for track would be 100% water, with some wetter. Water has a much better heat capacity, and will remove heat better, flow better, and radiate it away better than ethylene or propylene glycols.

It is not simple to turn the fans on using the stock wiring - grounding #1 wire turns on #1 fan, on high speed, grounding #2wire turns on both fans in series, lowspeed, and grounding both wires gives max cooling, two fans at high speed.
This whole system is controlled by three relays, and if you run power to any one of them, fuses will blow when it changes modes from series to parallel - your power wire will be routed to ground! You could take 100% control, or leave the ECU in charge, but not both. So fooling the computer into thinking the engine is a little too hot would be my choice.

S

StealthTl
Actually what I am THINKING about (haven't fully looked into this yet) is installing a small 3nd oilcooler with a built in fan(can mount this anywhere). Using the current stock wiring to the radiator fans to power that(i know, I know got to figue out the wiring) and then to run the radiator fans with an independant thermostatly controled system such as you can buy from Summit Racing for $75. I dont think that will cause any problems and sure could help with the temps. Help with the coolant tempts on the street(not on the track) and the oil temps all around. Worth a look in to. May end up having to buy an aftermarket radiator.
Fooling the computer in this car is not an easy task.
L8 I think i can get the gauges to not bounce around on the dash. I too, am concerned about that-- but have a plan. We used to have this problem with the old big blocks and the steel dashes in the old muscle cars. The high lift cam's and such would put a lot of vibration through the car.
olddragger