TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Street tires are teh suxorz

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Use to, ran H tires one year... Once you leave, you don't get back on the train. However, my wife still has a contract. I am to lazy to repeat 2003, take two sets of wheels and tires to every big event, and do multiple tire changes. Now if something came along that was significantly quicker (like the A3S03 VS Victoracer in 2003) then it would be worth the effort.

I have daily driven every one of my autocross cars. RX-8 has 51k on it now. Just a lot less work to change the tires at home in the garage, and not have to haul all the crap with me.

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

I was somewhat competitive in STU, even though I didn't swap tires at events. I never have been able to put back to back days together at Topeka but I did have a finish in '06 that would have put me 5th in class one day. I have trophied at Tour events and was just a tick off of John Tak at a Milwaukee Tour.(He codrove an STU car) They do say that the sun shines on a dog's **** every once in a while, though.

I am not saying that the Stock car parts list is less expensive than ST, I believe that the tires are much less expensive. Even shaved, the RE01R's last much longer than the Kumhos. There may be some that shave a set to nothing, but it is not necessary. I would want to confirm this but I am pretty sure that Colin won STU on newer tires this year. I also do not believe that he shaves them.

That being said, there are some of us that spend mega bucks for stock class cars. I know some that have shocks that cost $1,000 a corner (ask Windscreen at the next SEB meeting). That is more than what is needed for a good set of coilovers on an STU car. The problem with ST is that there are so many more upgrades that can be made. I don't think that they are all necessary for talented drivers, though. Tak/ Lieber claimed that they had no power mods (boost) done on their cars when they won BSP. There is a local guy that consistently beats Colin in an Evo that hasn't even done an exhaust on his STU Evo yet.

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

Better yet, come up to Chicago. We have a Chicago Region SCCA event on Saturday and a TSSCC event on Sunday, both at Rt. 66 in Joliet. We also have two SCCA events the following weekend to finish off the year. Here we get 6 runs in a day and much better courses, surface.

I have done Rantoul events before. Usually the end of the year one. Last year I was a little disappointed that we only got 4 runs in a day. It costs too much to trailer a car down there and get a hotel for only 4 runs. Well, too much if it isn't a Tour event.

Mr. Pockets

Well, we run so late in the year that we start running out of daylight by the last event. Four runs is certainly not typical; this season we've usually done 5-7, plus fun runs. With a co-driver one weekend, my car did 30 runs.

I'd like to try a Chicago event. I hear they're huge and very well-run. I have family visiting this weekend, though, so I can't make it. I'm also working some crazy hours at the office.

NotAPreppie

I don't think it's too expensive when you consider that it delays the withdrawal that much longer (since the season doesn't pick up again until April).

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

I am debating on whether or not to go this year. I guess I will see how bad the bug bites me. Besides, I kind of made an **** of myself last year complaining about a dnf that I was sure that I didn't do. That was a lesson in humility I could have done without.

Mr. Pockets

I hit our timing lights once. Does that make you feel better? :P

CodingParadox

I hit the timing lights at nationals last year in an STU car. :P

NotAPreppie

Hey, I remember that.

I was the the guy in the sunlight silver #14.

It's cool man, no hard feelings. It was very big of you to apologize afterward. Come on back and race with us.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Is being somewhat competitive like being a little bit pregnant? What does a 2006 tour, where you did not run an RX-8, have to do with the cost to set up or competitiveness of an ST RX-8? Far as I can see from those results (pending a weather report, because I can’t seem to recall if it rained at that event) it just further proves my point – an STU Evo that would be an AS car was 6sec slower than AS, more money to go slower.

I don't think even the fast ST tire guys are still trying to sell “the tires last longer” bit. The RE01R is equal sizes (245-18) is about $40 less than a V710, and that is before $15 per tire for shaving – not much of a savings. There is also contingency money from Kumho, or tires from Hoosier for a natl win. I don’t recall any support for ST.

I have yet to see any proof that you need to spend the money for high dollar shocks in stock. I know that Windscreen likes to tweak on stuff and has spent a lot. I also know the fastest vette in SS this year was on single adjustable Konis. btw FS and BS also won on Koni sports.

I sure hope when Liber/Tak ran the EVO in ESP they did not have boost, those mods were not legal till the next year. Even in 2006 when boost mods were legal all they had to beat was their old 2005 car, which also did not have boost mods, and had a driver that had not sat in the car before that day.

Guess we will just agree to disagree.

Imp

Jason,

Do you agree that auto-x is about having fun?

It's clear that, to me, a) speed and b) money spent are the primary factors to your definition of 'fun'. Why do you keep beating people up over ST because of what *they/we* consider fun and what *they/we* do to our cars, and how much $$ *they/we* spend in the quest for "having fun"?

For almost as long as I've known you, you constantly harped on "how slow ST is compared to other classes for the money spent". By your definition, you're right. They are slower. However, thankfully, most of us that make up ST don't abide by your definition of fun. You can't/don't want to understand? Fine. You like stock. You like R-comps. Great. But I put this out there to you: where's the challenge in R Comps?

R-comps can only be driven 1 or 2 ways, on 1-2 different brands. The challenge isn't the same as those that try ST. Which tires to get? How to set-up for those tires? How to maximize grip out of the sets you've chosen? There are way more factors that go into setting up a car to be faster (compared to other cars in the SAME class) than trying to set up a stock car to be faster than the rest of your class.

Stock: Get the fastest tires that fit on your wheel. Good shocks and you're good to go. Copy a forumla that's been around since the beginning of r-comps.

ST: There's no one 'proven forumla'. With new tires, new cars, come new challenges.

So, if you don't like the challenge ST provides on streets, that's fine. I can understand how you feel. Go get 'em.

--kC
(Oh, and hi and congrats on another win this year. )

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the kind words but I still feel like an idiot. I was so stuck on the fact that I was too good to dnf. Ugh! What a bafoon.

Anyway, I will see what the budget looks like for that event this year. Do you guys have an online registration yet? That would help speed up the registration process in the morning which would give more time for more runs.

Mr. Pockets

As a matter of fact we do.

http://ccsportscarclub.org/registration/

Sign up and come on down!

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

The fact that I look a little bit pregnant has nothing to do with this conversation.

I can agree to disagree. That is what these forums are about, seeing differenct perspectives on things (what I needed in the above situation).

Just for the record, Bridgestone has contingency and you still could qualify for Mazda money if you could get an 8 to go fast enough to win a ST class. Good point on the shocks. I guess it still comes down to that talent thing. (Which I would still like to be able to protest, I haven't been able to buy it anywhere.)

I will not doubt the fact that ST is slower. There is no doubt about that. I just question the cost part. I can't believe how much I spent on rubber this year, over what I have spent in the past. Yes, the Kumhos don't look much more expensive but you can get a $100 discount on a set for being an SCCA member. Plus, the Kumhos lose grip after 70ish runs which is the equivalent of shaving a set of ST tires. (which I thought you proved that shaving wasn't faster? )

I was referring to the '06 Tak/Lieber car.

I did write Colin just to prove my sanity. These were his responses:

I ran the same set that I ran from the Bridgestone tire test the day after the Milwaukee Tour. They currently have ~60 runs on them and they started as 5-6/32" shaved. They have a lot of tread left on them still. I only ran my one set of used Yokohamas up through the Milwaukee Tour. ST cars, as far as tires go, are much more cost efficient in my mind.


-Colin

40, 45 runs at Nationals. They don't seem to lose grip over time like the R-comps do. The Bahrs ran those ones last year that looked like Hoosiers by the end of the season.

-Colin

Guess I was wrong about the shaving part. Anyway, I still don't think that an RX-8 could win STX even with 265's. So, this is all for nothing anyway. Well, I guess that it beats working.

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

That is good to know, it should help out your club tremendously, too.

Unfortunately, your last events are the same dates as our last Chicago events. I need to seal up my class victory, so I will be competing there. I thought you guys usually did a November event every year?

Mr. Pockets

We will have an event November 15th and 16th. Pre-registration for each event doesn't go up until a couple weeks before.

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

I marked it on my calendar but it is the same weekend as one of our awards banquets. I may be able to make the sunday event, though. It is my birthday weekend and it may make a nice present to myself.

CodingParadox

There we go, now we've gotten to the point. This is just a difference in ideology. Autocross, in most of our opinions, is about equalizing cars and making it as much about driver as possible. This is why I road race Spec Miata.

You, on the other hand, are talking about how you love being able to mess with 47 different car parameters, and how that's the "challenge" to you. So, for you, it's about spending endless hours finding the best car setup. It's just a difference in approach. I have no real interest in that aspect of the game.

I sold my Street Mod project for a variety of reasons, not least of which was that I realized that in the end, it was just an arms race, not a driver battle. That's why the best drivers in autocross are in stock classes. Some of the other classes may be more "fun to drive" (and I'm going to just let us disagree here.. I hate running on street tires, but that's a personal opinion, I'm mostly talking about P and SP classes) but they also cost a lot more. In the end, I have a hard time justifying spending 3x as much money to get into an arms race in a car with significantly less ultimate grip than the equivalent stock class car that, in this instance, you can throw 550$ yellows and a 1300$ set of tires at, and be somewhat nationally competitive right out of the hole.

(Disclaimer: I'm leaving this afternoon for Utah to pick up an Elise I just bought and getting rid of my RX-8 ASAP, so add appropriate levels of sodium chloride to the above.)

RK

iTrader: (1)

Which brings this thread full circle back to the questions of what to use for a setup to run in STX competitively at least on a regional basis and to see if anyone thinks that the 8 can be competitive at a national level with the new STX tire/wheel rules? I modify my car for the track and then see where it slots for AutoX but I'd at least consider tweaking it to drop down to STX since that's a more competitive regional class for me (BSP and STU tend to get thrown into a PAX group).

Besides the problem with running stock is that your car is pretty damn stock. Chicks dig the big wheels.

Imp

And on the other hand, I love the fact you have have varied cars in the top of the class and rather dislike spec classes, which BS has become (and you can't tell me spec miata, every car is the same...*cough* sunbelt *cough*)

And stock is stock for that reason. ST and above exist for those that like to 'play' against other cars of like capabilities*. It's another level of challenges. Not only do you have to drive very well to win, you also have to have a bit of knowledge on car set-up. The real challenge is eeking out the best you can on street tires. IMHO, driving quick on street tires is a greater challenge than driving quick on r-comps by a large margin. Sure, in stock the cars are set up almost the same and it's a drivers game. I contend that the higher classes throw other factors into the game that extends the same old drivers game to new heights. You still gotta drive the car fast in *any* class to win.

--kC
*STS Civics excluded... it's amazing how that class is all Civics. Mine isn't an STS car anymore anyways.

CodingParadox

You may want to get those types of chicks checked out at the gyno before you touch them. ;-)

CodingParadox

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm not racing again until I get my motor properly rebuilt with a pro head this winter.

As I said, a difference of ideology. I can respect your position, you can respect mine.

tucker1170

iTrader: (1)

The only way to know for sure is to have a competitive driver give it a shot. I would say no, though.

Look at how well Team did this year in Topeka in BS vs. how well he did last year in STU. Then compare the STU times to STX times. I don't recall what class ran what days/ times but I don't think a little more rubber is going to make that much of a difference.

Imp

If all goes to plan, I will beg to differ. All I need to do is get rid of my Titan. And that hasn't been an easy task.

You can't compare. No one can. STU and BS don't run same days/same heats/same course. On top of that, it's a mistake do try and draw a conclusive result on pretty much ONE data point: Sipe the two years he ran STU. (But yet, the car still got moved .

One person tried "a more than basic effort and knew how to auto-x well" in STU (good or bad is not for me to decide). I will say this: The car got moved, there'll be more people trying STX this year in their 8s.

--kC