dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Oh, and as for "DSC OFF"!

How about: DSC ON until you feel comfortable with it? I drive on the track with DSC on all the time when I'm not really pushing it. The DSC in this car doesn't really smack you down when you set it off, so you're not going to be that much slower with it on than off. Having it on lets you learn the track and line, and then you can turn it off when you've gotten smooth and consistent. It does a great job of catching you if you screw up, so for a new driver with untuned spin recovery skills, it can be really helpful.

Try driving with it on until you can do a whole lap without setting it off (no blinking light). Then turn it off and start working you speeds up gently so that you can learn where the car will step out on you and how much gas or trail braking you can really handle.

I am aware that using DSC on the track means that I'm not a man and that grannies in old Buick station wagons often pass me.

expo1

I agree with DSMDRIVER on DSC. When the track is wet I have it on all the time. When it's dry I use it for the first session, till I am comfortable with the track layout. This weekend I will be running on five different course configurations in three days and will use DSC at least once per course.

Spin9k

My opinion, leave DSC on unless you are 110% sure of your track save abilities in emergencies and/or have mastered and know the track like the back of your hand. If you find the DSC is engaging at a certain point on the track, figure out what you did that caused it to engage and work at driving more smoothly the next lap around. When finally you can repetitively lap a track well w/DSC on and not have it engage.....you are then well on your way to having the skill to drive that track wo/DSC and not risking your butt w/bad driving techniques.

Red Devil

This is assuming a car is completely stock, I'd assume. I have Whiteline sways (you do also as I recall) and wider wheels/tires. A few times I've forgotten to remove DSC and it has kicked in prematurely and slowed me down. Then on successive laps when I've removed it I've driven the same corners several mph faster and the car has been stable with no hint of losing control.

Matt RX8

DSC off if you want to learn anything. Just don't drive 10/10th until you learn the course and then only drive 9/10th unless you are competing.

CosmosMpower

Right, I meant to ask if your CEL just blinks or if it blinks and then goes solid or goes straight to solid right away. Basically I just want to get an idea if i'm getting a misfire at high rpms like you or if I have a different problem.

I don't want to run the engine with the CEL on/blinking if it's going to cause real damage to the car. By the way is there a thread here about the various can software/cables and where to purchase?

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

My CEL blinks for a little while then goes solid when I have a misfire CEL.

I'm sure a search for datalooger will bring up all sorts of stuff. They Hymee sCANalyzer and the Harrison CANscan are both popular. But I wouldn't worry about a CEL that much that I wouldn't go to a track without one of those tools. A lot of CEL's are related to emissions (like a misfire).

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I'd say autocross with DSC off if you want to learn anything. The track at 100 MPH is not the safest place for your car to learn to control a spin. AutoX'ing and then going to the track will really give you superiror car control skills.

A good race driver rarely needs to use their spin control skills. A smooth, fast line doesn't involve the tail hanging out. There is plenty to learn about driving fast with the DSC on. F1 cars now use traction control and they are faster with it on than off, so DSC is not always a crutch or something that slows you down.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I have RB sways front and rear and Tokico shocks. The DSC doesn't kick in at the wrong time on my car.

DSC kicks in when the car stops doing what you ask it to. It doesn't say "oh look, .9 g's, time to turn on." It works even after you upgrade the car. It turns on when the steering wheel angle no longer matches the curve of the car (in a very basic sense).

Sounds like your definition of fast is a very loose, oversteering car that slides a lot. DSC will go off in these cases, but that doesn't mean it's slowing down a driver that uses a smoother line.

If you're planning on trying out for Formula D, I totally agree that DSC should be off though

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

regarding the misfire CEL, if you misfire once, the CEL will blink until you shut the car off, and it will stay off until you have another misfire, then the CEL will stay on.

I did this several times back on a track day weekend in June, fortunately a friend has a OBDII reader that was able to clear it for me and let me get back on the track

CosmosMpower

Gotcha, that sound exactly like what happened to me. I had some blinking in the middle of a run so I finished it and turned the car off. It went away until the middle of the next run where it started blinking and then went solid.

I reset the ECU by pulling the battery terminal off. Is there a better way to "soft" reset the light like the pumping the brake pedal method 20 times in the first 8 seconds or something else so you can get through the track day and still get to a reader later and pull the code?

BTW can Mazda read your ecu and see how many times you've redlined and for how long each time? My car is BONE stock but I wouldn't want them to check the ECU and claim abuse.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

'best' way i know of to clear CEL code is to get one of those OBDII scanners that can read Mazda's OBD protocol (CAN?) and use that to clear it.

AFAIK, the OBDII memory does NOT record any of those information until an error code event occurs, then it takes a snapshot of all information available and stores it in memory.

it does, however, record how many miles have elapsed since the last time the OBD memory has been 'cleared'

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

speaking of OBDII scanners, any of you have seen/used this thing?

http://www.davisnet.com/drive/produc...p_products.asp

a poor man's live data acquisition system

RPIRX-8

I agree with leaving it on until your learn the track and can lay down some consistent laps. After you get there, turn that thing OFF (one touch off please, not push and hold off). The DSC being on does reduce throttle response and can hold you back if you have heavy suspension/power mods. Of course, this all depends on the track. I just got back from Tremblant this weekend and i can only think of 2-3 spots where DSC might kick. Now NHIS, lots of places where DSC will mess you up once you start going fast.

CosmosMpower

Hrmm so that could be potentially bad if I take my car to the dealer for a CEL and it says that the car was at 9000 rpms when the CEL came on. If you don't have a reader is there another good way to reset without pulling the battery? I'm still in the process of researching readers.

Red Devil

My definition of fast is slow gradual steering imputs and in general taking as wide of lines as possible so I have to turn the least. Whether I do that or not every time is a whole other subject.

My specific example was from driving GingerMan, which is a fairly slick course and does promote a bit of sliding in some areas due to build-up on the track on hot days. I was there for a driving school when this occurred because I forgot to turn the DSC off. Even the instructor commented how much it was inhibiting the speed of the car in those corners - especially turn 9. Also had a friend that has raced SCCA ITS show me how to drive the lines at that track. Anyway, that very brief slide, more like a skip, caused the car to go into panic mode and cooked my brakes. The DSC inhibited me, yet for the few hundred track miles I've logged at GingerMan I've never gone off track there yet. And every time I go there when it is very hot, I get slight oversteer at 9, then the tires catch and I'm off.

Looking at what I just wrote, maybe it is or isn't a matter of how the car behaved before or after I've done my suspension upgrades. Maybe just more a matter of knowing how your car behaves at certain tracks. At GingerMan, the DSC is definitely off.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

I've driven a couple hundred miles at Gingerman too, but not in an 8. I know what you mean by how loose it gets in 9. It's also a pretty safe place to push the limits and spin.

I'll give you that some tracks may have corners that are really slowed down by the DSC, but as you say, this isn't a function of the mods of the car, it's a function of the track surface and the fact that the fast line in some conditions actually requires a slide.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

If you pull the battery, all the codes and memory are gone, so there's nothing for the dealer to download.

A code a 9000 RPM isn't a problem. The car has a 9000 RPM rev limiter, so that's not a warranty issue. If you haven't modified your car, there isn't really anything that will show abuse in the computer.

The only weird thing from pulling the battery is that it will show only a few miles since last cleared if you take it to the dealer. But if you clear the code, why are you taking it to the dealer? They can't help you because they can't read what's wrong.

There's a fuse you can pull to reset the CEL, but I forget which one.

CosmosMpower

Gotcha, I pulled the battery in hopes of clearing the ECU just in case it was a random occurance and nothing actually was wrong/needed to be replaced. I'm guessing that's the issue since I reset the ECU and so far it's been a week and no CEL again even though I've driven up to redline plenty of times. Maybe all the sliding around in the rain and constant redline in 2nd gear pissed the ECU off and it hiccuped a random CEL.

If it does it again tomorrow at the next event I will leave the CEL on and take it to the dealer. As far as the snapshot of when the CEL occured what will they dealer say if the engine happened to be at 8800 rpms etc.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

the OBDII also records the *speed* at which said error code occurred... so try to explain that 'misfire' at 110mph @ 7000rpm, lol

expo1

I wish to revise what I said about DSC, Take it on a track by track basis. I just did almost 4 hours today at Pocono. Was on the North, South & East tracks. Used DSC for the first sessions on each track. It was getting in my way on most the infield sections. Didn't get in the way on the super speedway sections. Clearly the infield roads were slicker then the main track but with DSC off I had just the right amount of slide when needed, no killing the throttle at the wrong moments. Big difference. When I was at Watkins Glen DSC was not getting in the way. So the condition of the track is a big factor.

CosmosMpower

Well at autocross speeds rarely exceed 70 mph. That being said I wonder if they could call it abuse if it happened at say redline @ 40-50 mph. I guess I could say I was bringing it up to redline getting on a highway but I'm not sure. Car is BONE stock.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

autox condition should be ok

Skinless

This is exactly what happened to me at the track yesterday. First session I got a flashing CEL, came into the pits and it went off (I didn't have to kill the car). In the second session I got a flashing CEL, following by a sold CEL. Pumping the brake 20 times to reset the KAM didn't clear it. I took it to a nearby Schucks (Kragen) and they checked and saw a "Cylinder 2 misfire" code, just as other people have reported. They cleared it and it didn't come back. Later in the day I got the flashing CEL and came into the pits to clear it. If it had come on solid I think I would have continued to run and gone to Schucks to clear it at the end of the day. I don't know if I'd go to the dealer with a solid CEL right after coming off the track. The condition of the tires right after coming off of the track would be one indicator of how you were driving.

dsmdriver

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone know what the blink->solid behavior is? Only code I've ever gotten is the cyl 2 misfire code, but sometimes it blinks for a few seconds and goes solid, sometimes it blinks for minutes then goes solid. Seems like the blinking is trying to tell you something, but I don't know what it is. Maybe "this is occuring right now?"