PUR NRG

What with all the noise about 248 (original) vs. 238 (revised) vs 207 (estimated actual) hp, what do y'all think about the RX-8 in B-Stock? Suddenly it doesn't look as good on paper compared to the S2000. More weight, longer wheelbase, softer springs, less horsepower.

I wonder if the SEB with reconsider placing the RX-8 in B-Stock and move it to another class.
________
FREE XXX TRAILERS

eccles

After speaking with a local club member who is on the SEB, I believe that is quite likely.

syntrix

If it's anything like our local crew, it's not gonna happen.

Instead, we can all run the same numbers and make up classes. Then let the organizers talk about their cars for an hour and the realized that the run group is waiting.

Hope they move it!

Foureagles

There will always be the chance of adjustment, and it will always come too late for those of us who feel disadvantaged, or too soon for the winners. Class changes happen after a season of performance data is in, sprinkled with a liberal dose of bench racing among the powers that be (yet another reason to get involved in SCCA administration).

I started my Miata's autocross career in the '89 season in CSP with just a wheel-tire change, a good alignment, a little added lightness, and about 600 miles on the clock. Already there were some in positions of influence who felt that the poor thing should move to a slower class, and the fact that I never finished lower than second likely damped enthusiasm for a move.

The 8 carries some baggage that may well hinder its chances at nationals glory, but I predict that first season regional results will keep it right where it is for a while.

{{{{

TybeeRX-8

If you look at some of the other threads, you'll find that the guys in the Houston Region SCCA Tim Pryor), in BS, are beating other folks...S2000, Boxster, etc., while running Hoosier 'Track" tires, not autox tires. With this happening now, I don't see SCCA re-classifying the 8.

syntrix

Hmmm, I was put in AS, I thought BS was where it is supposed to go????????


Just stick it in ES, it's not very fast, and the stock tires are hella slippery (good drift tires)

Ike

I don't think the 8 will be going anywhere but the S2K might... However that's been a rumor for a while now and I don't really know what class it would be a better fit in...

Each class has a car that has the edge over the other for the most part, and it will always be that way. The only way to eliminate that is to have only the same cars compete against one another. It would just be too difficult to have parody for the kind of money it costs to autox and with the amount of people that compete in it. There are already classes that only get 1 or 2 entries at an event even in the more active regions.

Ike

syntrix

How is autox expensive?

I really don't care bout the class... autox is kinda fun, outside of working.

There's already a lot of regional events showing up all over the US where they are LIKE autox, but you don't have to work, get more runs, and pay about the same.

Sure they are non-sanctioned, and you can't go for points, but still more fun for the same amount of $$$!!!

Ike

It's not expensive, which was part of my point as to why they will never have better parody like more heavily sanctioned forms of racing. Keep it cheap and somewhat simple is what autox is all about.

Ike

Sneakyracer

Another piece of info:

2004 S2000 (now w/ 2.2L engines) are dynoing 15-25 hp more to the wheels than 2L s2000's (-2003)

BUT susp. is a tad softer., lets see if they get reclassed or not.

Ike

Suspension is a tad softer but most seem to think it handles better.

TybeeRX-8

Some have tried to get the RX-8 into STX since it has 4 doors/seats/seat belts, but SCCA says it is a sports car and BS is where it goes. There has been some discussion about putting the S2000 into BSP (street prepared), but I haven't heard that was done as yet. The new S2000 has the same hp, but more torque and a lower redline. The suspension was tweaked to cure its terminal oversteer that the uninitiated couldn't handle. I'm sure that in proper hands, it will still be a car to beat in whatever class it is assigned.

syntrix

Unfortunately, the rule makers for SCCA are also COMPETING.

I've heard so many stories of very stupid rules for cars, and people mentioning the ruling body makes the rules so they personally have a better chance of winning.

Anyone else hear stuff like this at autox events?

John V

iTrader: (1)

(noob alert)

I've been following this issue closely since I compete with you guys ('95 M3) and fight the S2000s as well. I personally don't think we have a chance against them except on a regional level (which means nothing )

Here is a basic rundown of the competitors in BStock, rankings are my own opinions and observations.

1. Honda S2000 - Rules both tight and wide-open courses. 2650-2700lb in race trim. 240bhp. Excellent front camber curve throughout suspension bump due to double wishbone front suspension. Can fit a 225 Hoosier. Narrow with good visibility.

2. Nissan 350Z - Torquey but portly. 3200-3300lb in race trim. Benefit is that it is available with some seriously wide wheels from the factory (Track package), and can fit some really wide rubber. Strut front suspension has a poor camber curve.

3. BMW Z4 - Torquey and light (under 3000lb in race trim). Disadvantage of not having a limited slip diff. Can be as fast as a 350Z if you install a big front swaybar and light wheels. Poor front camber curve due to strut suspension. No provision for camber adjustment up front.

4. BMW M3 E36 - Poor front camber curve and no adjustment. Torquey and relatively light, only 100lb heavier than a Z4. Benefit of having a factory LSD. Can fit a 245 hoosier on stock wheels. With a big front sway bar, they can be plenty fast, but are still a "has been" when compared to the new iron.

Where does the RX-8 fit? Dunno, haven't seen one run yet, but from what I've heard it does belong in BStock. What does NOT belong is the S2000. It's over 200lb lighter than its closest competitor and has a far superior front suspension design. By the spec sheet, yeah, it's a BS car but it really should be duking it out with the STis and EVOs and C4's in A Stock. I have a hunch it would still win.

I'd be interested to hear any of your thoughts.

Any of you guys DC area local? If so look for the yellow M3 at the SCCA events. I'd love to chat with some of you!

John V
1995 M3 - RD front sway bar, 235/40 V700s, Koni yellows
ex-1987 RX-7 Turbo II - street ported home-rebuilt GTX 13B, Volvo FMIC, Custom T04 HI-FI, etc etc...

zerobanger

Ok, move the FD to A stock, move the s2000 to A stock. Lets have the RX dominate again (which it will).

Keep the Rx-8 in B stock, it will suprise ya.

Ike

I've said it before I'll say it again... the RX-8 is going to do well in BS, but the S2K will still be king. With equal drivers it's just too well sorted for autox. However, I don't see a better fit for it besides BS. The RX-7 seems to be in the same situation, it's not the best car in SS but move it to AS and it's the best car... I'm not as sure about that last statement though because the 2 FDs that regularly run in my division are awful, and they've been at it for a while, they regularly get beat by 3 or 4 S2Ks sometimes up to 7 or 8 in BS better their time depending on the day and how many S2Ks show up.

racerdave

Yeah, BS is where it belongs. Rarely does the SCCA class a new car in a class where it will come out and dominate. Instead, they prefer to throw it in over its head a bit and see how it swims.

I think the 8 will swim fine. Maybe not at the head of the class, but not far off.

It'll be fun to watch.

zerobanger

the 2004 S2000 has been placed in A stock, btw.

Ike

Really? Do you have a link so I can confirm this? I've seen mention of this in Fasttrack but didn't think it was anything official.

zerobanger

check the S2000 special interest (racing) forum. at www.s2ki.com. There is a thread about the s2000, thats where I read it. I'm rehashing what I read with out any confirmation. They were talking like its a done deal...so I assume they have factual info.

syntrix

You might want to search on http://www.sccaforums.com or post a few topics about it if nothing shows up.

eccles

If it's in Fasttrack, it is official.

John V

iTrader: (1)

Of course the day I post this, the latest Sportscar comes and I read that the new S2000 is in AS to "preserve the existing competition" in BS. Uh... what competition? Also, the petition from members that the '00-'03 S2000 be moved to AS was in there, looks like it will happen 1/1/05.

Doubtful that the FD will be moved to AS. The class is too tight as it is right now, and the FD would dominate the current hot car (C4 'vette) just like it did when it came out.

Wow, lots of Wisconsin folks. I autocrossed Milwaukee region SCCA for a few years before I moved. 1996-2000. (waving madly). A local guy just bought an RX-8. Hopefully he will offer some good competition. Looking forward to nationals next year!

zerobanger

I guess the C4 folks would get pissy and be cry babies if the FD moved to AS? I think the S2000 is going to eat the C4 alive.

the C4 should goto B stock, the FD and the C5 should goto A stock. The C5 and FD are a good match and neither are competitive in SS.

racerdave

So there's going to be a S2k "split" just like the 1.6-liter and 1.8-liter Miatas?

Was the outcry that big from the current S2k owners ("unfair!") to keep the 2004 out or what?

Ah, that's why I love F125... the technology and rules are, get this, STABLE! It's nice to be out of the "class wars" in the stock classes.

BTW -- I was in Boston from 97-99. I autocrossed a black Fiero in Milwaukee in 96 (won a lot, even against Bob "BMW" Clark), then a silver Ford Contour in 99 and 2000. (yuck) I finally got the kart last year, and it's the most fun I've ever had on 4 wheels.