blkswan

iTrader: (1)

I track about 2-3 times a year. Just went up to Laguna and pulled a 2:02, still need to improve my driving skills. My car is mostly stock with Mazdaspeed brakes, Rear Wing.

I need to replace my rotors and rear shocks (they are leaking), looking for some advice on recommendations? For shocks, would you recommend blistein or mazdaspeed?

I'm just looking to do a little performance upgrade while keeping it a comfortable daily.

Thanks,

MagnusRacing

iTrader: (2)

The Mazdaspeed are just relabeled Tokico shocks. They work well but I've had some blow out on me. I would recommend the Mazdaspeed or Eibach springs at the same time (Mazdaspeed springs are relabeled Eibach springs). Bilstein is usually really good too but I have no direct Bilstein experience on an RX-8. When my RX-8 had Mazdaspeed Shocks and Springs the handling was very satisfactory. Rear shocks blew twice though.

pcs

iTrader: (2)

go with centric blanks and pads... get stainless braided lines and good fluid.

I don't know about the shock side though....

AllBlack2

Koni has some good options for dampers, Yellows are more performance oriented and the Orange is made more for comfort. They're adjustable as well.

For rotors, stock or Centric blanks are the best option. I don't really like slotted rotors, they're more expensive and don't really have any significant benefits, except looking cool.

Steve Dallas

My recommendation in the under $2000 range is to buy Bilstein B14 PSS coilovers. You can find them for $1000 shipped, and they are far better than anything out there for under $2500. Don't be tempted by the PSS9s. They offer rebound "adjustability," but that is a gimmick that actually robs performance from the shocks. Above that price range, look at Ohlins. They are the next best in line before you go to true motorsports products.

If you really want to just replace shocks, then Bilstein all the way, assuming your spring rates are appropriate for their valving.

I like Centric rotors and have used them on the track for several years. They work as well as OEM and are inexpensive.

blkswan

iTrader: (1)

Are the mazdaspeed springs really relabel eibach? I am looking to order them from Mazdatrix. With a 20mm drop (0.75) is the spring rate really 210+front and 190rear? That's sooo much higher than any others, I'm worried the ride may be too harsh daily.

At the same time, I'm getting worried I'm changing the feel of the car too much. One thing I really like is keeping it close to stock so I can compare my lap times. It's harder to compare lap times when everyone's car is heavily modified. It's harder to tell if it's the driver or the car at that point.

Any ideas? Should I just get shocks and ditch getting springs since the OEM are still good?

Steve Dallas

I would go to stiffer springs and set new benchmark lap times, then compare future laps against those. I'm sure the MS shocks are valved for use with MS springs. With good shocks, those spring rates will not be that harsh on the street. I ran 340 for 2 years and run 460 now. No complaints at all.

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

I like Steve's suggestion of Bilstein PSS over springs + shocks if you decide to go with stiffer springs... Ride will suffer though, so you could just go with 2 new oem rear shocks, or a set of 4 bilstein HD (or possibly koni) and an alignment more geared towards track use if you want a bit of an upgrade without really compromising street use.

blkswan

iTrader: (1)

Cant find these for under $1000. Anyknow know the site? Are these still the best under $1000 without suffering ride quality?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

FWIW I just installed MeisterR CRD coilovers and the ride comfort and car behavior are excellent, even cushy. Next spring we'll see how they do on track, but so far indications are good. 9k/6k springs. I don't know if they fall under $1k of your dollars, but should be in the ballpark. They're just getting started in North America.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Not under, but close. Took me all of 5 seconds to search, noobster

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-whe...1/#post4835046

blkswan

iTrader: (1)

Thanks bud! :

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Good luck, still a good price considering how much everything else has gone up from over a year and a half ago


Which it should be noted that since the time that the previous conversation occurred above esrlier in this thread that it’s common to find the Ohlin coilovers for around $2000 now.





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blackmount

To expand on this, (In my opinion) unless you are the dedicated track enthusiast with true talent to push a car to 11/10ths, it really isn't worth the money to go full coilovers. I've seen alot of people become slower after switching to coilovers, even good reputable ones like Ohlins, and people become faster after ditching coilovers and going back to a simple strut and spring combo - Myself included, I've done it twice now.

It takes alot of skill and time to properly set them up, most people end up going too stiff to begin with, and most cheaper coilovers have far too stiff of springs as it is, and inconsistent performance (as alot of shock dyno's can show you) So Unless you can really afford to fork out that extra money for Ohlins....

If you street drive your car alot, and you are a humble driver. Stock, Tokico, and Koni's are the best bang for the buck combined with a good spring rate like Eibachs. I believe if you contact a vendor like Racing Beat they will tell you almost the exact same thing as well specific to the RX-8.

For Rotors, its a lightweight car, you really have to be in it to get ALOT of heat into the brakes for Rotor types to really start making a difference. I've found even on a stock car. Blank Rotors are the best in most cases, just go with a quality brand. Use a good pad and adequate fluid.

Brake Ducts are never a bad idea if you want to get more serious about your tracking as your skill improves...

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I find it difficult to agree with coilovers being a last step in the upgrade tree. Picking and choosing springs and shocks to get the behavior you want can be very time consuming and almost always results in a compromise. Stiff springs (or any springs really) are not a problem if they're properly matched to the rest of the suspension. You can make stiff springs comfortable a lot easier than you can make soft springs handle better.

Most standalone springs are only a mild upgrade over stock anyway, and the limiting factor on these cars (in my experience anyway) is front tire rollover due to excessive outside loading due to soft springs. If people have trouble adjusting them properly, they can see a professional, or buy coilovers that don't feature useless adjustments (for example, the PSS kit).

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Should have considered the source and saved yourself the two minutes ...

blackmount

I am not sure if it would help that issue specific on the RX-8 - but a stiffer front sway bar may help that by reducing the amount the suspension compresses when loaded up in a corner by limiting the travel of the otherside

Other factors to consider as well - the Tire itself, Pressure, size, and camber - BUT I did notice the RX-8 seemed to have a sudden loss of grip in the nose during hard-low speed corners causing the car to really push - but I ruled out as as a combination of me having 0 degrees of camber in the front, and also only having 225s with semi-cheap 300treadwear summer tires. Since I haven't had this car long, I haven't really invested much time into improving it yet.

I'd also be curious to see how a stock suspension RX-8 performs with just upgraded sway bars - The factory Dampening and spring rates seem pretty good on the RX-8 for casual track use, and heavily spirited canyon-like driving, but the car itself rolls alot when transitioning.

Steve Dallas

OR, a casual track day participant could use the formula I developed over a period of 2 years and 20 track days:

1. Bilstein PSS or PSS9 set to the maximum ride height in the instructions (which is ~13.5 square)
2. Medium front sway bar (like Progress MX-5) with stock rear sway bar with adjustable links and proper preload
3. Performance alignment with all the front camber that can be managed
4. Extreme performance summer tires (>= 200TW) like Rival, RS4, or Star Spec
5. Your choice of rim and tire width, up to 255

This setup WILL work, and there is no futzing with shocks and springs needed. The car will be neutral with a willingness to rotate when desired. It will also be perfectly comfortable on the street and just feel a bit "sportier" than stock, aside from the compromises created by the alignment.

.

eyeguy

I haven't yet had my rx8 out on track yet, but I had the bilstein PSS kit on a mazda2 (that I regrettably sold) and it was incredibly capable. Out the the box the rears were underdamped, but once I sorted the rear dampers it was firm but comfy. My dad said it felt similar to his M2 when he drove it. Not quite an apples to apples comparison but bilstein seems to have a good thing going with those pss kits, especially when you consider the price.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

You revently bought a 2004 with 84,000 miles on it. Try laying off the keyboard about how it feels on OE shocks BUT maybe take the time to read our experiences starting 13 years ago about all that and more before trying to school us on it.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Sway bars are a one way trip toward dependent suspension. They will make car flatter, no doubt, but at the increasing cost of your left wheel reacting to bumps to the right wheel. I'm not sure how you determine damping and spring rates are good, while also stating the car rolls a lot. This isn't a dune buggy, the springs are what determines how much it rolls.

But, Team is right, get some seat time and fix problems from there. I raced on stock suspension for 6 years until this year, because the suspension was not what was holding me back in this car. So in that sense, I agree, the stock set up is very VERY capable.

blackmount

I am not here say anyone is wrong, or argue - I was just here for the discussion.

I do not think the length ownership is a valid justification to instantly disregard someones experiences as credible. I do alot of driving and I don't mean commuting. I get my hands on some pretty cool cars from my own **** Mitsubishi's to GT3 Cup cars - I am confident in having a good frame of reference to go off of to really feel out a car. I also know people who have had the same car for 25 years, but have never put it on the track or flung it into a corner. Expertise comes from practice. I am far from truly skilled driver, but I have definitely put in the seat time.

Also I was echoing comments from the following that had reinforced my initial thoughts of the RX-8.

We also need to separate the needs of people who want borderline spec competitive race cars, and those of us who are just the casual, recreational 1-4 trackdays a year type like me and the OP.

Steve Dallas

Loki is correct RE sway bars. Bigger bars cause the right and left tires to react to each other, in addition to what is happening at each contact patch, which is a compromise situation at best. More spring with less bar is almost always faster. Set up the car with proper spring rates for natural frequency and roll stiffness, then add only enough bar to fine tune roll stiffness and balance as needed. You will notice, in the formula I posted above, I recommend an MX-5 bar for the front, and the stock bar for the rear. Pretty small.

lOOkatme

I like stiffer springs with stock sway bars, but I could see how a front bar is needed to balance the under/oversteer.

A great compromise if you really want to tune the cars suspension but takes some time would be to run a soft spring rate and use bump stops for added support. this would be a good street set up. But it might be a pain to really get the bump stops dialed in with swapping out bump stops. I always think going softer is better if you aren't wheel to wheel racing. so basically run enough spring and not anything more than you need. I also know if you turn down the damping so the car sets slower has more grip and is faster, at least for me. Body roll is not a bad thing until you start bottoming the bump stops hard enough where they cause issues.

I raced half a season with just swift sport springs on stock shocks with unmodified stock bump stops. The other half I raced with Ohlins DFV 9/6.
I was placing the same before and after the mod in my field. The swift springs were bad at low speed turns cause they got on the bump stops and understeered badly, but with different bump stops they might have done really well. I was really fast on those springs and with such a soft rear end.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Your car is 13 years old with 85k miles. Many here have more miles. Any car that old and used has tired springs and shocks. Nobody in their right mind is going to the dealership to buy new OE springs and shocks that likely cost at least as much as the coilover kit being discussed when you jumped in. Your welcome to your opinion, but maybe it’s not as informed as you seem to think it is.