PUR NRG

SCCA announces Street Touring Ultra to include WRX STi, Evo 8 and RX-8.

Uh, which of those three cars is not like the others?
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Ike

Interesting, I think the RX-8 will do rather well on a tight course against the cars listed. Will certainly be interesting to see how the class shapes up even if it doesn't.

Ike

If anyone is wondering the PAX it's 0.827.

eccles

Did they just pull that number out of their ***? PAX factors are based on performances in state- or national-level competition over the past year.

Since this class has only just appeared, how can there be any data upon which to base a PAX?

Ike

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2004.html

eccles

Which confirms my belief that the PAX is based on prior results, and so I repeat: since this is a brand new class, how can there be any prior results on which to base a PAX?

Granted, the base vehicles involved may have run in various other classes last year, but not with the same set of allowable modifications, nor with the same tire restrictions. This PAX figure must be a guess at best, since there is no hard data.

PUR NRG

You're wondering about PAX logic why? Take an RX-8 from BS and you get a better PAX and more allowed mods in SM than in BSP.
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Ike

It should be an interesting class, and one I will follow closely. It may have to get mixed up a bit come seasons end. Any predictions on what the 3 best cars will be, and which you think will win nats.? It's a tough call, but I feel confident it will be AWD. I really want to vote STi, but they still have a lot of kinks to work out with mods, so EVO8 wins nats this year. Followed closely by the STi and RX-8. Though the F-body may just spoil the import parade, but I've got a Nat Champ F-body driver, and another national contender at my local events so maybe they've skewed my perception a bit.

Anyone else care to make some predictions?

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

E36 M3 will be one to watch as well.

I don't think the RX-8 will be competitive in this class, especially on a tight course. No low-end torque + tight course = slow times. Although I suppose the guys looking to win nats won't have the reluctance I have relative to downshifting into first to get the punch out of pivot cones and tight sweepers. I suppose if you did that, the RX-8 might have a chance.

What the RX-8 does very well is transition. On a faster course with lots of transitions and a few large radius sweepers the RX-8 should post some respectable times.

Ike

The M3 while a terrific track car has never impressed me much on an autox track. It really shines on more wideopen tracks though. I think 2nd gear on the RX-8 is a bit taller than on the STi so that may help it out, but I think where the STi and EVO will have the biggest advantage is the aftermarket and all the parts they will have to chose from. It looks like a lot of the RX-8 mods are still going to be in development come the start of the season for most.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I just noticed that while wheel widths are unrestricted, AWD cars are limited to 245 section tires, while FWD and RWD are limited to 275s. That makes it a little more interesting for the RX-8. Ike, do you know if there are limitations on wheel diameter? If not, you could fit 275-40-17s, which are a bit smaller than stock. Otherwise, 265-35-18s are available, which give a 9mm lower rolling radius, helping the gearing issues in the RX-8.

These same observations help the other 2WD cars in the class. Perhaps the Evo isn't the obvious winner after all.

Ike

I'm not sure about diameter, all I knew was the width limits that you mentioned. However, I'm pretty sure unless otherwise specified the ruleset for STX is applied I don't know about my original predictions, the more I think about it the STi topping out second before 60mph might hurt it in a big way. It's going to take a better driver than some of the other cars in order to get the most out of the STi. I don't think there is a clear favorite, and it'll be fun to watch this class unfold. I just hope it catches on as a class, and local chapters adopt it. I've already seen some reults with STis being stuck in SM even though the cars could have run in STU.

I still think there a chance you're going to see a lot of former ESP Camaro drivers dominating this class, they're already going to be well sorted and they will be very used to their cars. Also, turns out this class won't even be considered for full national status until 2007.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Just looked at my 2004 rule book, and it appears that the only limitation on wheel diameter is that the wheel must fit over the OEM brakes. So you could go with a 17" wheel on the RX-8. Also noticed that piggy-back ECU mods are legal, so the Canzoomer mod could be used (as I read the rules, anyway). Lower gearing + Canzoomer = punchy RX-8 (but still no STi/Evo killer in a straight line).

As for the F-bodies coming from ESP, it may not be that easy. ESP allows for more lightening mods, inlcuding back-dating parts, so moving to STU might not be easy for the top-prepared cars. I know that the best CSP Miatas are "frankenstein" cars, with various parts such as the engine, doors, even the dash being carefully choosen from the year that can donate the lightest part. Such a car would require quite a bit of "un-doing" to be legal in STU.

I still think the RX-8 has a shot on a momentum course. At our season opener, a well-prepared (but not bleeding-edge) and well-driven CSP Miata delivered FTD, over some well driven high performance cars, such as Z06s, F-bodies, etc. It was a momentum course, loads of fun in a Miata - acceleration just didn't play much of a role. I took first in CSP in my Miata, on street tires to boot! (Overall winner competed in PAX, so I wasn't competing directly with him).

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

OK, I've red the rules a bit more. You can also use a high flow cat, which means a Canzoomer stage 2 might work. Hmmm.... +40 hp, 275 G-Force KDs on 17x9's, (or 10s if they fit) , a set of JICs. Sounds pretty fast. Ike, do you how much hp STis can pick up using the STX rules?

Ike

The good engine management will be out any day now, may most likely, and without that the STis have been having some problems with mods. Though there are a couple engine management systems available, but I'm not really sure if they're legal, only one I know for sure that's legal is e-manage. Boost creep is pretty common with a TBE (not sure if the highflow cat will eliminate it or not) so they really need that engine management soon. I'm going to say you're looking at around 30hp to the wheels tops with a STU legal STi.

But HP on the STi will not be a problem even if they they weren't allowed any mods. Some guys may be out there with Praxis suspension and those cars with a good driver might be scary good. I think suspension mods are what's really going to make or break the STi in STU. However I think you're going to see more STis in SP or SM since altering boost and changing out turbos is is a big thing with the STi, especially since this will not be a nationals level class most of the best drivers will stay away.

The more I think about it the more I just don't see the class working out in the long run, but I do see a AWD class in the not too distant future.

Ike

Imp

Praxxis is not legal in Street Touring or ESP. In the case of a Subaru, you're changing the 'Type' of suspension from Struts to AirBag. Changing 'type' is specifically not allowed in those classes.

There's a move to let otherwise STX legal WRXs and DSMs in with boost mods into STU. The WRX stage 2 right now only see about 275 wheel HP, and you don't want to go any higher than that without new injectors, which are, again, not legal. DSMs are in the same boat, and they have issues with suspension design. Sure you can get decent HP, but wth the limit of 245 street tires and not the best suspension, it becomes an issue there to.

It would definitely help the class become a little more populated from the get-go, along with helping those guys with teh DSMs or WRXs that have done a couple mods stick around and do Solo on the local level.... and they go to SM right now and get killed.

--KC

syntrix

There is really no comparison between the two, but I did have mine setup agains a praxxis(sp?) airbagged STI and on the top of the line bridegstone street tires on the track, I was best 1 sec behind him. I did have more mods, and the drivers were all "advanced group" drivers with over 10 years of driving exp.

STU sucks, I'm banning SCCA this year.

Ike

Thanks KC, didn't realize that the Praxis would be illegal. I keep forgetting that STX rules apply to STU in most cases and have it stuck in my brain that more mods will be allowed for some reason.
What are your plans for the season? I heard something about you not being able to make many national events and defend your crown, if that's the case sorry to hear it.

I really think an AWD class of some sort would be nice and is something the SCCA should seriously consider, and thoughts on that?

Imp

Work's got me pinned to the wall. They want a 9 month project in 6 months. Can't complain... OTs been approved. :D

Most of the events I've been going to have been with the support of the company giving me leave without pay. Since the closest event this year is 9 hrs away and the next is about 14-16 hrs, I need to take quite a bit of time off (usually about 2.5 days... 1.5 out, 1 back), at no pay for it. I might do the DC tour. That's up in the air, but no more ProSolos.

So with the added work, and getting paid (and a few other things that need to be done outside of work) I had to make a decision.

So I'll still go to nationals... just not the ProFinale. STX or ESP... still up in the air. Going to be running locally in ESP to see if the wagon, as it stands, takes to Hoosiers well.