Sparky

Can someone please advise me on a good initial set point for my rear Koni's? This is for a Solo setup. I've searched the pertinent threads and have heard "full hard" from some and then I believe Mark saying he doesn't use anywhere near that.

Planning on putting them in this weekend. I run mostly on asphalt and have the RB bar (for now anyway) with 245/35 710s.

Just would like something to get me in the ballpark so I can start testing.

Thanks in advance.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

check with DPE vendor on this forum. They run koni's on their cars(8's) and can give you a lot of good info. Really nice guys that know what they are talking about.
olddragger

Razz1

I believe number two setting

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iTrader: (1)

The cars that were 1st and 2nd at natls were full stiff.

Sparky

Thanks Jason.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

the car that ran the fastest raw time at Nat's was only at 50% stiff rear rebound and with a stiffer front bar no less

that was something like 3 or 4 tenths over 1st had it not been for a rear wheel nipping a slalom cone :o

then again, maybe discounting cones and redlights only counts when we're discussing the Pro Solo Finale :p

but in general, a setup is comprised of many variables, one piece of the puzzle isn't going to necessarily mean much by itself or even be complete without all the other pieces

Congrat's though to Ullose on winning the National Championship despite not having the fastest RX-8 times on either day

Sparky

Thanks guys. That's pretty much what I had guessed from your previous posts. With the RB bar on asphalt I think I'll start at 70% with the rear at 1.3 deg/zero toe to start. Fine adjustments with rear toe to achieve balance. I'm getting pretty quick on setting the rear toe except for a few well placed scars on my arms from the exhaust. Need to get that SuperTrapp installed.

Imp

So that was the secret? I was 1/4 turn from full stiff and finished 4th. (To play Marks game... .085 out of 2nd) Darn! :D And stock front bar too!

As a side note... Maybe that's why my wheels stayed on the ground?

Sparky

The range of settings is interesting. Kinda suggests to me that Koni got the basic low speed curve correct for Solo? If so that's great news. On other cars with the Koni sports it's been a compromise between getting enough low speed damping (never enough) and keeping the tires planted over joints in the pavment due too much high speed damping. My understanding from other people was that this was because the shocks were optimized for track day rather solo.

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iTrader: (1)

I could be wrong but I think both Mark and Clyde have custom Koni Doubles, not off the shelf singles like the rest of us.... So what he is set at is not the same as the rest of us.

Sparky

Don't get me wrong, I may very well end up at full stiff on the rear like on my Miata. I want to start out with something less than full to see whether there is anything to tune in this area. Asphalt for me has typically wanted somthing softer in shocks than a concrete setup. If it's all just shades of not good enough, then I'll just crank up the shocks and start buying swaybars instead. I'd like to keep a bigger front sway if possible because I think it's a little more forgiving to driver error even if not ultimately the fastest setup. Giving up a tenth of a sec to have a car that I'm not afraid to really flog has worked for me in the past. I'm only able to run 10-15 events a year and it's kinda hard to stay sharp that way.

I really appreciate the advise I've gotten here. Bought my RX-8 back in July '03 then kinda lost interest when shocks didn't come out for almost 2 years. Now it's time to get this sucka set up and kill some cones!

Imp

IMHO... stay with the stock bar if you're learning the car, or how to drive. The larger bar is a fine tuning kinda thing. Some like it, some don't. (Put me in the don't category).

--KC

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iTrader: (1)

Yeah lets talk about the pro... The car that won was on a stock front bar and full stiff konis... You guys with your super car were 6th and 12th.....

You can tell how much a red light helped your time, I had a .485 and .460. A cone you cant tell how much it effected your time, a nip is that a tenth or two... Did you hit an apex cone that saved you .3... You never know.

Bottom line at the Pro, Joe was clean AND fast, he was the man that day.

Now back to natls... 1st day we had a drying course, every car that went out had a better track than the last. I was very happy to be only .279 back the first day being that I was about the 8th car out and did not have a codriver. You however got to take a fourth run well after everyone else was done. So what your excuse for not getting it done?

The 2nd day I was very upset that I never went faster than my 1st run, not the first time this year I have had that problem. I guess I can be happy only one guy beat it by a few hundredths. The other nice thing is all of my 2nd day runs were still fast enough for the win.

For the second year in a row the guy that won BS natls was not quick time either day. Guess that means any sucker can get lucky.

Maybe next year if I have a fast car like you I can have quick time one day.

I think the only thing we all agree on is none of us had the same setup

clyde

Kind of depends on what the SA compression is compared to where Mark and I have have had ours set.

Be careful about listening to me, though. In true accidental Team WTF?! fashion, we didn't exactly have a decent rear toe setting. :o What are you gonna do?

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iTrader: (1)

Don't put to much weight into the shock thing... The only other event I won this year, Fontana Prosolo, I had stock shocks. The shocks will make the car feel different, but the nut behind the wheel has to make it work.

tuj

OT, but is anyone going to try the Tokico d-spec shocks this year?

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iTrader: (1)

They seem to be popular with the street crowd, but I dont see to many "race cars" with them.

tuj

True. I'm just not a big fan of Koni and I'd like an alternative that isn't Penske or Ohlins. Supposedly the d-spec have some interesting damping curves.

Sparky

Agree 100%, a good driver can lead the car enough with the stock shocks to do well. Better shocks increase response bandwidth which can help minimize the impact of poor/late inputs but also mask fundementally bad control. Remember the high $ shock test in Grassroots a couple of years back? 2-3 tenths was ultimately about all they were worth with a good driver behind the wheel but it took more runs to get the best time on stock shocks. Good shocks get me to my best time faster which is important given 3 runs with this loose nut .

I've been on the stock shocks for 3 seasons now and do okay, just don't have the time to travel to big events or stay as proficient as I used to be. If I can pick up a a few tenths with this mod I'll be happy.

Thanks for the advise.

tuj

I've heard that before too, but I'm not sure I buy it, at least not with this car. In a stock class, isn't one of the points of shocks to try and raise spring rate with compression settings? I'm surprised it doesn't make a bigger difference.

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iTrader: (1)

Bilstien should have something in the next few months.

Imp

Have any dyno graphs?

Sparky

The times people have put down on stock shocks speak for themselves. No way is this car ever going to be faster than an S2k and there's just not enough gap there to say that shocks or any other piece of setup can be worth more.

To your question, you have to ask why you want more spring rate. The car has plenty of dynamic camber so it's not to keep the contact patch flat as with say a mini. Main reason is IMHO is to keep the car off the bump stops and increase stearing responsiveness. To do this we effectively overdamp the car using the shocks. This has a downside though in that it transfers weight outside faster than you would like resulting in less grip compared to a properly tuned shock/spring combo. The trick is to find the least amount of overdamping that allows you to achieve your objectives. More is not always better. One of the tradeoffs we make in stock and the price you pay for running stock springs.

Imp

You would be if they forget to do it for some odd reason... :D

--kC
(Now where's that paypal address???)

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iTrader: (1)

KC is just bitter... Still cant find his name in the book from 2003. btw did you ever get your jacket for STX. :D