sam h

I just got off a 40 min call with an RX8 race shop (which will remain nameless) and his feeling is that if I buy an RX8 and just slap on suspension and tires, I'll be tearing up engines, trannies, and rear ends. He said I need a built engine, an '09 tranny, and a racing lsd, oil coolers, diff coolers, etc just to make the thing reliable.

I raced a 2002 Porsche Boxster S to a Mid Ohio lap record (for a boxster) and runner up National Champion in NASA's TTC class with less than $3k worth of mods. The car was bullet proof and gave me no problems whatsoever. I saw the price of RX-8s dropping and took one for a spin last week and really enjoyed the feel so I thought I could just slap on tires and a suspension and go race. Am I dreaming?

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I would agree with the tranny. The car comes with a lsd, but it may not be the best type for racing. If you are buying the car used, the engine may be suspect. There have been cars that have had a string of engine problems. Get a compression check before the final purchase of the car. Oil coolers & the rear end shouldn't be a problem. You may want to drop the final ratio to 4.77.
Finances, for the moment, are keeping me from competing in TTD.

Spin9k

if you named the shop peps could could help you more with their known rep... why the secrecy? Beside that, sounds like a bit of a sales pitch. You can do susp/tires and have a go at it...if you break smthg, what have you lost...nothing..then spend $$ & get the mods as you''then know for sure what is unreliable with your type of use.

Since you have an OEM LSD and oil coolers the 'advice' already sounds a bit suspect...

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Spin, there very few in the series that use a stock LSD...the move is to go with Cusco and 5.12 gears. Also, I have an idea of where he got his info and they def are not the leading RX8 team in the Koni.

'09 trannys still have their quirks we have been running them for a while now. The previous tranny had some issues but nothing that wasn't expected. As for oil coolers, stock is good but bigger is better in my experience...as for the diff coolers, have't had any issues with diff temps to even worry about.

Spin9k

ahhh soo

sam h

I'm not going to smear anyone's reputation on the internet. That's just not cool. He might have misunderstood my intentions or was just trying to look out for me without realizing what kind of racing I'm doing (not pro level w2w).

I8U, can you guys give me a call and have a similar conversation?

Thanks,
Sam

EDIT: 703-945-0232

hogcar

I have a Grand Am spec Rx8 and would be glad to answer any questions that you have. I might also consider selling it. Shoot me a PM with your contact info and I will contact you.

Billy Bunn

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Sure Sam, our team manager will be getting intouch with you. I'll give you a call myself as well.

Senna

[QUOTE=I8U;2702860] Also, I have an idea of where he got his info and they def are not the leading RX8 team in the Koni.QUOTE]

I love this comment. Thanks for putting it in perspective I8U.

Anyone care to address the heat issue for him (and their solutions) or is it only me battling 220 F on the track during the summer here in California.

As for tires/wheels 255 40 18 are ideal for me. RPF1's are pretty popular here. I've seen guys with 275s and it seems excessive for the power we have IMO.

Also-I recently changed over to RP oil but I'm not convinced it beats Mobil 1. I'm interested in what others have to say about this...maybe it would be useful to you too Sam.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

the only real rotary tuner (dont know if they are a real race shop) shop i know of in the d.c. area is pf supercars. they are located in manassas. but if you are only doing mods like coilovers and sways they should be waaay more than enough.

http://www.pfsupercars.com/

I8U

iTrader: (1)

WOW Kersh, you recommend PF Supercars to the guy? What did he do to you? You may to do a little research on Peter Farrell, he had some issues with customers cars that landed him in court...kinda like what Mazsport is getting ready to go through now.


Senna, ahhh the infamous cooling issues. What can I say, we have done extensive work on our cars to drop the cooling temps. We run Ron Davis custom radiators, and have done a little work to the water pump, can't get into specifics about that though, and ofcourse you have to lose the antifreeze and run straight water and water wetter. Our track temps hover around 180-200 depending on track conditions.

sam h

So,

-difficulty cooling
-fuel starvation
-burnt seals
-weak transmissions
-less than advertised hp (which means it may not be fairly classed in NASA due to rated pwr/wt ratio)
-way less than normal torque (less area under the curve)

You guys are not painting a very pretty picture for the RX8 as a race car.

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Sam, you've been around awhile...racing isn't real pretty in general. lol

The RX-8 has it's quirks but it is a good race car once it's dialed in.

dothackRAVE

Advertised HP is 232..., which you can bring to 250 with a Cobb AccessPORT.

Red Devil

Search for posts by TrackAddict. He set a few track records in TTD down in the SE with his RX-8. As I recall, that car was equipped with Racing Beat suspension + Koni Yellows. Can't remember the type of tires off the top of my head...

RK

iTrader: (1)

Like every other car this one has it's limitations. You did ask what to worry about when looking for one - not for reasons why you should buy one.

Besides you've already been in one around the track so we don't need to give you a pitch about how its a lot better on the road then on paper. You already know that.

racewithroar

Sam,

I haven't read over the rules for TT in a while, but I feel that to be competitive to TTD really all you would need would be everything you pointed out earlier. It also would be beneficial for you to go to a 17" wheel if you can, and then run some of the wider tires. I wouldn't go over a 265 though. If that gives you enough points back to do the brace, definitely do it. As for tires, we only have experience with Hoosier's (Koni Challenge compound and R6's), so I can't comment on how other tires like the Toyos feel on the car.

Brakes on the car are fantastic in stock form. Really all you need is some track pads. We recommend Cobalt XR2 compound in the front and XR5 compound in the rear. The pads have a more manageable initial bite than other pads but still hit hard enough to pop your eyeballs out. They have also proven to be very easy on rotors. If you wish to upgrade your rotors, we have had much success running Racing Brake two piece slotted rotors. Reducing the rotating mass does wonders for the car.

Considering it's TT probably the longest you will ever run will be 30 minutes, maybe a 40 minute session once in a blue moon. The Diff / Trans coolers are unnecessary for those short stints. Upgrade the fluids (75w90 gear oil for the diff, and it appears that a 75w90 gear oil mixed with ATL works the best in the trans). '08 Transmissions are fairly fragile, but as long as you take your time shifting and don't cram the gears it should be ok. However, buying used, it is impossible to tell how the previous owner(s) treated it.

An upgraded radiator and water pump would be highly beneficial. And of course like I8U said, run straight water with a bottle or two of Water Wetter.

As for oil, we have done plenty of testing on virgin oils, and as it turns out the Red Line brand has the most anti-wear additives and has been a very good oil for us. We run the 50wt race oil.


As for other optional mods - I don't believe it would be necessary to get a built motor until your first one fails. And even then all that is really necessary is ceramic apex seals. Porting / Polishing won't be worth the points incurred. Axial Flow Engineering short shifters are fantastic if you stick with the '08 trans. They are working on getting one ready for the '09 style transmissions. The Cobb Accessport with tunes made by MazdaManiac have shown tremendous hp gains.

Adding the auxiliary fuel pump inside the tank is a fantastic mod as long as it is done right. If it doesn't give you any points I would definitely consider it. Without it, keep the tank topped off and you should be fine.

Well - that's what I can think of right now. I can tell you that you will not regret buying the RX-8. If you think of anything else or if I missed something let me know. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

We will be at Road Atlanta for the final NASA-SE event on Decemeber 5, 6, and 7th, so if you are around be sure to stop by!



Adam

shaunv74

Mazmart makes an upgraded water pump and Charles R Hill makes an upgraded radiator that should solve #1.

My humble advice on burnt seals is to pre-mix with idemitsu rotary premix. That's what most of us on engine #2 have been doing. There's a pretty big thread on this as well. Also you'll see some vacuum increase with adding premix.

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh yes, I totally forgot about premixing. One ounce per gallon of fuel in a race setting.

Thanks Adam, I knew you would have some great insight on the matter. Looking forward to Road Atlanta.

I8U

iTrader: (1)

In what world?! Yeah 232 adevrtised, meaning 180ish to the wheels in a stock MT...add the AccessPort, and 200ish is possible.

Senna

Quite honestly, I'm a little surprised that you're seriously considering the Rx8 in light of your past experience with other higher hp'd cars. As much as I love tracking this car I have no doubt that it's not going to be sufficiently powered for me in the not too distant future. I'm already dreaming about a 3 rotor option and I suspect NASA can find a class for it to run in.

As it is-I run in HPDE 3 and my times are upper middle pack on stock suspension (outside of sways) amongst a bunch of higher powered stuff. But I'm lower on the learning curve in terms of getting everything out of a momentum car-compared to you. It's a challenge for me now, would it be for you?

sam h

Despite conventional wisdom, faster does not necessarily mean better. You go out on the track and drive faster than you ever have in your entire life and it feels awesome. So then you think, if X is good, then Y will be even better!!! Once the newness of speed wears off, the thrill isn't quite the same and you have to go faster and faster to replicate that same feeling. Powerful cars drive much differently than momentum cars. People who like one tend not to like the other, but both present their own unique challenges. However, there are two other ways to capture the thrill if it ever fades. First is to concentrate on all the possibilities. Try to nail your braking points to within inches lap after lap after lap after lap. Then, once you have a line perfected, completely mix it up. Take a corner on the inside, the outside, etc. Try lifting throttle mid corner and catching 45* slip angle and recover it. Try pretending that you're going into a turn and the brakes all of a sudden don't work. Imagine cresting a blind hill and seeing antifreeze on the apex and being forced to adjust your line mid turn. This not only makes it interesting, but it makes you a more experienced driver...a safer driver... and it prepares you for the ultimate thrill--> racing. There is no comparison really between trackdays and racing. Once you strap that transponder in your car (and especially once you slap the cage on it and start running door to door with your friends) the adrenaline levels exceed that of an 8G bank in an F-18 (believe me because I've done both). For me, the move from track days to w2w is 10x more exciting than the move from a Corrolla to a 911 Cup car!



Adam,

I used to work on cars myself but these days I do 80+hr weeks and live in the city where I have no garage and no tools. So, I would be very excited about having a shop handle the purchase and build. I like what you have to say. I'd love to come to RA--it's one of my favorite tracks--and one of my long time racing buddies is seriously considering renting one of your cars for that event. But I live a good 9.5 hrs away now, so it's unlikely I'll be able to make it. Why don't you give me a call and we can talk about a build. 703-945-0232



What may kill this idea in the end is closeness of shops. Given that I have no garage or tools these days, being close to a shop that knows what the heck they're doing might be a deciding factor. There are literally three BMW race shops within 2mi of my apartment.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

Swoope, I instructed quite a few RX-8 guys at Road Atlanta back in 2004-2005. One of my students was there for his first track day and we went to Sonic for lunch. I hear through the grapevine that he's quite the time trial racer these days.




[/QUOTE]

wow,

small world! if we are both talking about nabil, you should really talk to him..

btw, he has over 90k miles on his car, and 7k are track miles. i am pretty sure that is accurate.. it was talked about last track day..

running the car hard is good!

beers

Senna

Thanks for your insights. I'll definitely keep your ideas/practices in mind as I move along the learning curve. I may have given the wrong impression though. For me track days are a means to developing my ability to run w2w in a racing series, not an end in itself. The track day vs race day comparison is a no brainer.

Admittedly though, and it might just be me (right now) but the idea of piloting an F1 car or the Puegoet 908 against equal competition strikes me as being more fun than piloting a spec Miata against equal competition.

stuntman

Keep the car cool!!! -Oil and Water.

Ron Davis Radiator (spec'd from ROAR Racing - probably the best one available that fits in the factory location).

Upgrade the oil cooler with larger more efficient units (not as important as radiator, but VERY important none-the-less).


Aah yes, a very well spec'd/sized radiator