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are they doing the street springs, the same height ???
if not where I could get some camber kit for rear, because I don't need 2.3 degree of camber driving 360 days on the street.and five days on track. |
would love to see 1 in the front, and .8 in the rear..
that sounds kinda dirty. :) beers :beer: |
Originally Posted by MilesJ
(Post 2933247)
Revalved Konis + stiff springs should work well for STX.
A revalve *may* not be needed. With the miata koni sa's, a revalve isn't needed unless running rates above 450-500 lbs/in. I sent Lee Grimes @ Koni the following e-mail and I'll post up his response. Hi Lee, I purchased a set of Koni SA's from one of your US vendors for my 2006 Mazda RX-8. What are the stiffest spring rates I can run front and rear on my car before needing a revalve? Many thanks! |
Originally Posted by chiketkd
(Post 2938186)
Miles,
A revalve *may* not be needed. With the miata koni sa's, a revalve isn't needed unless running rates above 450-500 lbs/in. I sent Lee Grimes @ Koni the following e-mail and I'll post up his response. This should be interesting. |
Originally Posted by chiketkd
(Post 2938186)
Miles,
A revalve *may* not be needed. With the miata koni sa's, a revalve isn't needed unless running rates above 450-500 lbs/in. I sent Lee Grimes @ Koni the following e-mail and I'll post up his response. |
I don't know how to run the numbers myself but here are Shaikh's dyno's of the Bilstein and the OTS Koni vs OEM Tokico.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment...chmentid=69391
Originally Posted by Shaikh@FatCatMotorsports
(Post 2536977)
No Bilstein HD plots until I turn a different dyno adapter on the lathe. Following are the OE Tokicos and Koni Sports with some comparisons of average F vs. V and full-loop F vs. V (interesting behavior shows up! ;) )
Shaikh FRONT http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...kico_Fr_Rr.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...Koni_vs_OE.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...Koni_vs_OE.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...HYSTERESIS.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...HYSTERESIS.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...HYSTERESIS.JPG REAR http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...ff_vs_Soft.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...HYSTERESIS.JPG http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/iga...HYSTERESIS.JPG |
I think the koni shocks could handle 500lb front and 350lb back. Got a friend driving a FD using those spring rate, and a FD only weight 2600lb.
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Still no response from Grimes -- hopefully I'll hear something soon. I'll also try calling their technical support.
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 2934131)
I'm glad to see he finally listened ... :hahano:
KW Variant 3 and Ohlins PCV use 450/280. we knew this. we just thought going much stiffer was better and we were wrong. :banghead: :eyetwitch |
speed source also has to contend with acceleration traction problems with that 3 rotor they run. this changes things. After being fully satisfied with a koni yellow, tein h springs and rb bars on my street/track set up --now that i have added a little over 100hp to the picture--this has changed everything. If i dont get a little acceleration "squat" (weight transfer) the rear end will break out easily. So currently I am searching once again for a better set up. I like the progressive spring idea.
Point is --speed source is a completely different car than most of us run--dont compare. olddragger |
Originally Posted by olddragger
(Post 2943335)
speed source also has to contend with acceleration traction problems with that 3 rotor they run. .......
Point is --speed source is a completely different car than most of us run--dont compare. olddragger |
This is my initial response from Lee:
Hello Chike, You have asked the new "most popular question" that I get these days but the problem is that there is no specific answer to it, it is a general ballpark at best but first needs more info. The problem is that this question only considered two things: spring rate and valving. It totally ignore many other important things like usage (street, racing, autoX, missed usage), driver preferences, other mods to the car, etc. Shocks don't work in a vacuum, they are important components that have input from or to a wide variety of items that work together. Anyone who says "they are good for 600 but not 650" for example is either fooling themselves or fooling you as you cannot just draw a single line like that. As soon as you do, we can find examples of people who are happier with higher rates and obviously we can make a big difference on track or autoX with stock springs and revalving. For certain there are spring rates way outside the ballpark that would need more valving but they would likely not be used that realistically anyway. If you would like to call me, we can discuss this further so I can get some input on your wants and needs. My office phone is xxx-xxx-xxxx ext xxx and my work cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx from 8-5 eastern time and often later a bit. Lee Grimes KONI North America
Will post his response. :) |
FWIW, the spring rate ranges I mentioned to Lee that were being considered were as follows:
Front: 400-500lbs/in Rear: 250-325lbs/in See his response below: Chike, Looking at the valving, I would think those spring rates would be well within the acceptable ballpark if the shocks are adjuster at or in the upper end of the adjustment range. Of note, that application already has quite a very great deal of compression damping in it off the shelf and could not be increased really if the shocks were to be revalved. The front rebound makes a good bit of force but can certainly be increased with revalving if needed. The rear has room for increases in both bump and rebound although the bump is not particularly low on that end either. My suggestion would be to run the car with your spring upgrade and decide for yourself if you feel like you need them to be revalved. If you find that the car is best at the max setting and more range above that would be better, then it is a candidate for revalving. By comparison, the current B Stock national champion won on the off-the-shelf KONI Sport valving with no revalving so they are already pretty capable out of the box. Lee Grimes KONI North America Chike, You will be fine with the range that you're looking at. The 325 is getting towards the upper end of the range of the adjustment but you'll still likely end up at a quarter or half turn off of full firm even with the 325# spring rate. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by chiketkd
(Post 2943993)
FWIW, the spring rate ranges I mentioned to Lee that were being considered were as follows:
Front: 400-500lbs/in Rear: 250-325lbs/in See his response below: I also sent a similar e-mail to Koni's Technical support department and got the following response: So it looks like the spring rates being discussed within this thread are well within the valving capabilities of the off-the-shelf koni shocks. :) |
I didnt think that they ran a 2 rotor car anymore? Speed Source that is?
OD |
I want to ask is the springs going to be linear springs, or progressive springs??
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Originally Posted by olddragger
(Post 2947110)
I didnt think that they ran a 2 rotor car anymore? Speed Source that is?
OD FWIW, to the best of my knowledge the spring rates used in these koni cars are being referred to. I think in Team's STU thread, during his suspension trial-n-error "process" he did try running the road race stiff springs used on koni challenge cars. |
Bump. Any update on this project Fluid?
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eric meyer also warned about going to low as that will change the suspension geometry. i believe he said somewhere around 1" was about right.
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Originally Posted by chiketkd
(Post 2971334)
Bump. Any update on this project Fluid?
Unless more people are ready to pony up some money now, it will be a challenge getting these to the market faster. I am bit hesitant at taking a risk for a 50 spring order outright....without more interest. I know the interest is there, I guess it is the safety net I am waiting for. Also I believe Progress is amidst his designs or he could be waiting for a final go ahead from me. I will talk to him today possibly if not early next week. |
Added a poll vote!
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Thanks Fluid. I voted. You can count on me to buy at least one set, possibly two. Even though I can't run these springs until after Solo Nats, I'll purchase a set if they come on the market before then.
-Chike |
I'm interested in a set. Also willing to be a tester if you throw in some sway bars too. :)
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Originally Posted by mp5
(Post 2974336)
I'm interested in a set. Also willing to be a tester if you throw in some sway bars too. :)
Lol I got so many PM's about that... |
Originally Posted by Fluid Motorsports
(Post 2974465)
Lol I got so many PM's about that...
beers :beer: |
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