Preparing RX8 for the track?
 

Hi
I'm a noob to RX8s and rotary engines and will be taking my new (to me) 2007 RX8 to the track for the first time next week. I've been reading so much stuff here my head is spinning! (very helpful though!)

Right now it's totally stock. I will be doing the following in the next week:

Change Oil, Tranny and diff fluids
change the air filter
Change to SS brake lines and flush lines
Hotchkis sways
17x9 RPF1s with 255/40 Hankook RS3s
Add premix (whatever I can find here-probably lucas or redline)

If I have time, change pads to Hawk HP+

Still trying to pick out a set of coilovers and then will do an alignment, but I won't get that done by next week.

Any other suggestions to prep the car? Anything special I need to consider?

I have an NB Miata that has been my track toy up to now. Any suggestions on driving the RX8 would also be appreciated!

Thanks!

tom

Good list..

I would add picking up a few of the little seat belt clip things for child seats. Use it to lock down your driver side seat belt so you do not flop around in the car. Makes a huge difference.

Definitely find time for the pads, put them above the ss brake lines, but still do the full brake fluid flush.

I would wait on the coil overs until you get a feel for the car.

Check out post by trackaddict and eric meyer. Both have great info on driving.

Post how you like the RS3's, especially how they talk. I am looking hard at them, but want a tire that tells me before it lets go. I have V12 right now, and they made a significant difference. Friend put his Porsche in the trees with quiet tires.

Good luck.

I'm going to be running r-s3's next week as well.

Add these to your list

- Seafoam
- Extra oil and premix (you will be surprised at how quickly you'll chew through both)
- Check your endlinks when you install your sways
- Tape your battery terminals down (that or do it after tech inspection tells you to do so)

Thats all i can think of in addition to everything thats already been stated.

I would run it completely stock the first time, it's a great experience and the best way to determine the next steps according to your needs :)
Other than that it looks like you're following the right path, do as Green04 and L337fpc said and you'll experience a great weekend.
If you didn't do it already change your spark plugs!

as far as driving it...it's going to be a lot like your NB. more chassis and grip than power.

this is my list from my first track day:

-Engine oil/filter
-Trans and diff fluids
-Brake fluid flush
-Coolant level check (it was relatively new already; if yours is old, change it)
-Track pads (I used the Cobalt CSRs)
-Check battery tie-down (they didn't make me tape the terminals; we have a battery box)
-Alignment (was due anyway) and check for loose suspension bolts
-Recheck lug nut torque, oil level and tire pressures the morning of

Make sure you fill up on gas and bring extra oil. I ran through >2/3 tank in 4 sessions (~70 minutes).

Don't let your fuel get low - at some point it will have starvation because of the tank stradling the driveshaft.

How are your plugs, coils and fuel pump screen?

When you put the premix in, think of ways to get it to disperse. Dumping 8oz of regular 2 stroke oil may not be good for the fuel pump screen. I buy premix that disperses easily (like Idemitsu or Legend) and I premix it with equal parts gas before I poor it in and I try to poor it into a tank that is half full. So maybe that is overkill, but it is better than impacting fuel flow at the track.


I will really look forward to hearing how it compares to the Miata...also any other cars you have tracked. I came from lightly modified BMWs and the RX-8 is much more neutral. That is where i need the advice. I could put my foot down early in my E36 M3 and it would take a set; the RX-8 is more likely to start sliding. Most of the corners at my 'home' track are 60-120 mph so I was a little less comfortable on my first day out. I have a 3 day weekend there in May.

Good choice on the RS3's. They have more grip at the limit than the Dunlop Star Specs, but have a softer sidewall so through transitions on an autox course they are not as crisp. But you can compensate by more pressure and changes to shock dampning. On a road course they will be great as they like heat more than any other street tire i've found.

Thanks for all of the suggestions! I need to definitely remember the extra oil and premix- never had to do this before.

The car only has 28k miles, but I realized after reading your posts I should just do it's 30k service.

So now I'm also doing:

plugs
coolant
and whatever else not on my list that's part of the 30k service.


I always go to the track with a full tank (and all fluids), check wheel pressure and torque the lugnuts, tighten any bolt/nuts that are loose! ;) the usual stuff. It's helpful to hear about things specific to the RX8 though- I hate bad surprises!


I love the RS3s on my Miata- of course I've got 225s on 8" wide wheels on that tiny little car, so I don't quite expect the RX8 to be the same. :D: Once I got my suspension sorted out my Miata was quite fast and the tires would gradually loose grip when you pushed them. Lot's of good reports about them and if Tanner Foust won the drift championship on them last year they must be ok!

tom

Oh, one other thing. I have the progress tech sway bars. Softest on both was not a good thing. Made the car push. That coupled with an early apex resulted in a classroom example of the correct way to miss Turn 9 at Roebling. Most of the adjustable bars are about the same. I would put the front ones on full soft, and move one side up one level on the back as a starting position.

Take a gas can. The starvation point listed above is for a left hander with around a quarter of a tank. Just do not let it get that low until you upgrade the pump.

I see flush brake fluid but i dont see with which kind. ATE SuperBlue or Motul RBF600 seem to be the most common and popular of brake fluids for track use.

Enjoy!

Thanks- that's good to know. I'm sure the Hotchkis are similar so that's a good plan. I need to look into the fuel pump upgrade.

tom

Ate racing blue alternate with typ 200 (I like changing colors- ok, it's just easier to know when you're totally flushed).

Maybe I'll try to Motul someday when I run out of my cans of Ate.

tom

When I change coolant before summer, i drain and fill with distilled water with Redline or another quality brand of Coolant Additive. I figure a little less coolant is good for dealing with high temps, but this way I am not missing the additives that keep my cooling system clean. Before winter I make sure I have enough coolant to prevent freezing.)

Who has a good way to burp the cooling system after a drain and fill?

Hey man, you've been telling us to get a stiffy in the rear sway bar!

I'm still stock yellow stuff with an alignment of -1.7 camber front, and -1.65 camber rear.

I wouldn't change anything, and I ran in the wet on my Hankook ventus v12's, and they only started loosing it when I accelerated hard.

How stiff is good?

I like to travel so, maybe I can visit your track with you sometime.

I already have BHR fuel pump upgrade, and I forgot that annoying surge last year.

it really depends on the track and tires...if it's tough on brakes and/or you're on r-compounds, something like ATE or Motul is probably a good idea. if you're on street tires and/or the track isn't a brake-eater, fresh quality fluid really should be fine.

I would rather not chance boiling the fluid and losing the brakes ;)

You're right, but its peace of mind.

I agree- it's cheap peace of mind too!


tom

I was taught turn the heater on, leave the radiator cap off, and add coolant/water as needed. When the return hose to the radiator starts getting warm, put the cap on. Should clear out any air bubbles in the system. Worked for me last time I changed a radiator.

tom

This thread is the reason I come here. Solid advice and no BS. I was considering the same stuff and I think the old advice applies here as well "The best mod is to upgrade the driver".

Brake fluid: the best fluid is clean fresh fluid, unless your on r comps, race pads and a heavy foot, you will never boil your fluid if its fresh.

Premix: I like idemitsu or royal purple. Just put .5oz per gallon before filling the tank with gas. It will mix just fine.

Gas tank: don't go out with under a half tank.

Sway bars: I would recommend middle on the front, soft in the rear. It will give you a little understand which is a safer way to start. They are easy to adjust, so you can try different things.

Alignment: run a little more neg front camber then rear. 0 front toe and 1/16 rear toe in works well. Again, easy to change at the track.

Tire pressures: every tire is different, either check tire temps hot or look at the wear line on the tire tread edge to determine tire pressures. Play with tire pressures to tune the handling.

Wheel lug nuts: retorque lug nuts when hot.

Oil: top off and check several times.

Temps: should have a real coolant temp gauge or obd2 reader to monitor temp. Dash gauge is useless.

Bring extra fluids. lots of extra oil is good to have because you will most likely use a more than normal amount while driving hard.
let your brakes cool between sessions because you can do serious damage.

And, DO NOT USE YOUR E-BRAKE AFTER COMING OFF THE TRACK unless you want to glue your pads to your rotors.

Best tip, ever.

+1 don't use brake.

I take tire chalks.

I pull into the hot pits after a hot lap to check tire temps and pressure, then drive in the attack for a few minutes to cool down.

Don't think that is advisable to retorque wheels when hot.
Wait until they cool down first.

They loosen when hot and will work loose.

Yeah, but just once. Not each time. Theory is that you can ease into a lot of torque if not careful. Now, how good that theory is ???

Yes just once. I kept finding lug nuts loose when I got home until I started retorqueing them when hot.

Right, only use the E-Brake ON the track! :D: j/k!


Well, looks like I'm not going to get a lot of stuff I needed in time. I might be going out bone stock- this will be a big difference from my track prepped NB, but it should still be fun.

Got all the 30k service stuff done (plugs, fluids, filters), tranny and diff fluids changed with Redline, and at least I'll have my RPF1s and RS3s in time.

I hope the stock brakes are up for the job though. :(

Thanks for the tips guys!

tom

My World Challenge cars use stock brakes and the stock ABS. Of course, the car is lighter than yours, we are using racing brake fluid and pads, but the calipers etc are stock.

That's helpful to know. Unfortunately I may not get my new pads in time and I'm hoping the stock pads are up to some light track duty- just a lapping day but I wanted to get some stuff on the car and get it sorted out. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to have fun instead. :)

tom

The OEM pads will hold for a good day on the track. Depending on how hard the braking zones test you, they should be good for the weekend. I went through two weekends my first year out (VIR Full and Summit Point Main) before the Hawk Ceramics I used got a little too thin for comfort. I'll echo the brake fluid flush, a high-quality street fluid will do just fine with OEM brakes / pads. Save the Motul / ATE for Hawk HT-10s and brake-abusive places like The Glen.

Fun? Man, that's the whole point of track days! :)

Exactly.! :yesnod:

stiffer springs.

I am also wondering if less lift or more downforce would help.

What car(s) have you used on the track before and how heavily modified?

@ nadarealist,

I would start with shocks and springs. I did Tokico and H-Tech for adjust-ability on the car and comfort. It made a lot of the butt up wiggle dance (technical term) go away. Then there are alignment things to get rid of the rest. Search is your friend. I seem to remember that the alignment stuff is not something you want to drive around on the street with very long.

When you search you will find something like 3 shock and spring religions and maybe 2 to 3 alignment religions. Feel free to join up. Then read what you can find from TrackAddict and Eric Meyer. I learned a lot.

I run the same brake pads front and rear with not problem. I have -2 camber all around; 0 toe up front and 1/8th toe-in rear. Is the problem just on initial braking or all the way to turn in?

I agree that the loose rear end under heavy braking can be fixed with Shocks/springs. The stock suspension is just too soft and there is too much weight transfer to the front which is causing the loose rear end under braking. However if you do all your braking in a straight line you wont have any problem. Hard on the brakes, off the brakes, neutral throttle to settle the car and you turn in.

I run Hawk race pads DTC-60 all the way around but I am going to switch to a DTC-10 in the rear simply because the rear are not getting hot enough and are bairly getting into the operating heat range. Using a lower temp pad (one that will reach operating temp more easily) will alow for better braking performance.

For alignment you will find a lot of different settings, but most of them are

Toe: No toe or slight out in front and slight toe in for the back. More tow out in the front and tow in for the rear will loosen the car up. Adjust based to fit your personal driving style, track and suspension setup (spring rates, shocks, sways and tires).

Camber: Max front negative camber you can achieve (around 2-2.5 deg depending on drop) and the same rear camber as the front down to 1 deg less neg then the front. The rear is adjusted to fit your personal driving style, track and suspension setup (spring rates, shocks, sways and tires). More rear neg camber will give more grip and tighten the car up, less rear Neg camber will losen the car up and help it rotate.

Corner balance and rake will also effect you ideal alignment settings.

Taking proper tire temp data will help you find the proper camber settings. I personaly want the least amount of Neg camber possible while still using the entire tire patch. This allows more tire contact patch during braking and acceleration.

ok i have something to add. if you know there is a chance of rain, or 2in of rain which is what happened this weekend:

RainX or wax your windows...holy crap it made a world of difference.

you mentioned "stomping" on the brakes at ~130...i'm guessing that's not really what you meant, but consider how suddenly you're engaging them. sudden weight transfer can really unsettle the car, and high speed magnifies the effect.

as you said, this is a different animal from your previous car, and your driving style might need to be adjusted accordingly. FWIW, i have no stability issues braking aggressively from ~120 to ~70 on my stock suspension and street tires, but i try to be very smooth and progressive in initial pedal application (really, any control input) to keep the car settled.

1 bucket seat is all you need for the first time
dont need to put real good/soft tires,
coz u will need to learn skills first, better learn it from the beginning,
from a stock car, then keep pushing it, till to its limit, then start changing stuff
like coilovers, sways, better tires :)

Not sure why you need a seat, the stock ones work just fine

if u are going to track, the stock seat wont hold your body well, you will end up using your foot and arms to against the door, that will makes you cant focus on the road, trust me, having a bucket seat can let you take corners a lot faster, feels like you are connected to the car :)

My braking style for years has been to ease into the brakes, but for the track we are told to push hard (I kinda stomp myself), then, ease off some for how much you need.

I've only stomped as high as 96mph, chirped the fronts slightly, but didn't get the butt wiggle, and I'm slightly toed out up front.

On the way over to shorten my sway bars links, I could feel the rear wanting to bounce up over every ripple in the road.

I've run shortened stock endlinks for almost a year with no issues.

My belief is that it actually helps keep the rear from jumping up too high since the 1.5 inch shortened links run out of length.

I'm sure I'll be told no, but the rear bar works better for me than it did, since my stock suspension came at its minimum low specs, and it's a cheap fix.

For the seats.... Get some of the clips for holding car seats. They look kind of like an "H". You can make the seat belt plenty tight so you do not slide around. Next step would be one of the harness that attache to the rear seat belts.

Progressive vs digressive braking techniques is where you can improve a lot in non-abs cars especially.

This torso harness works pretty well and its very affordable. http://www.soloperformance.com/SPS-U...ss_p_1279.html

Hard but smooth braking. One wet track day and you will know learn what I mean. Stomping on the brakes can cause undesired weight transfer and abs activation. Being smooth is faster.

Yep, its just meant to keep you in the seat instead of sliding around.

From a safety stand point it might make things worse because it will cause all the pressure to be placed across your torso. It might work better and safer to run diagonal like a second shoulder belt.

It gave me 12 hp above 8200 rpm with a straight midpipe. Below 8200 there was no improvement on the dyno (ie full throttle, fourth gear)

Its called version 2, designed for reduced backpressure and high rpm use. There is a before and after dyno in the dyno thread.