Bruceman

Concerning the proposed new Autocross stock classes

Would it be worth going to a 17" wheel?
Any other changes in this new category that may help the Rx8?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

a lot of people opt for a 17" lightweight wheel for racing.

JayBird513

from what I gather, if you are planning on making it a track car, 17"s will be better because of weight reduction. I have seen a few 8's with 17"s and stock height, looks like they are on roller skates!

godesshunter

No more R compound tires. I think that would be a big help over stock.

kbrewmr2

how's the new Appendix A look for us - any cars in our class now that we should be worried about?

Bruceman

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...20Minutes1.pdf

04Green

iTrader: (1)

17s are good for weight, as well as torque multiplication. If you can play with offset, move them out a bit. A 35 offset gives a wider stance and sets up the suspension a little different. I just have no idea what is allowed or not allowed.

Racer516

370z is gonna be a killer until 2015 in CS, who knows how it will do on street tires.

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

I have to think the 370 will suffer more on streets than the RX-8. I would run the 17s if I was going to run Street. You can afford to give up some top-end 2nd-gear speed b/c the car will be slower on street tires.

Ken, I don't see anything in CS that is worrisome as long as Banha doesn't bring his Lotus back out (although that might be sunsetted by now). Fortunately, you just picked up some perfect wheels for the R3.

I don't think the Miata will be terrible, though. The light weight will help it on streets. Do the FR-S/BRZ twins have available camber bolts? If so, they might be competitive, but honestly, I think this gives the RX-8 a new lease on life.

kbrewmr2

I'm just making sure I don't need to start getting people to flood the SAC with letters so I don't have 2 sets of obsolete stock/street class cars. LOL!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

the BRZ/FRS does have a factory camber bolt option, the OE wheel width is only 7"

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

Only if I can get a t-shirt out of the deal.

JDOliver

iTrader: (1)

The advantage to going with a 17inch wheel will be the gearing reduction like someone mentioned. We have some locals in S2000s that use this to their advatange.
Street = Stock in case someone is not following all the goings on in the class "shakeup".
By the time they get done wittling down the proposed changes it will be exactly the same as 2013 C Stock minus DOT Slicks. At least that is the appearance as of now.
I don't see anywhere searching that the 370z is dominating within the current rules and removing slicks is not going to help them get the extra power down. I think it is going to continue to be a toss up based on driver and course size with all the C stock players.
The Road Tire classes should also go away as a result of these changes since the stock class will be a road tire again.
The proposed draft list for C Stock(now Street) 2014. Doesn't seem to have any important changes that would be a negative for the RX8 if any.
C Street (CS)
BMW
M3 (E30 & E36 chassis) (1988-91 & 1995-99)
Chevrolet
Corvette (1963-82)
Chrysler & Plymouth
Prowler
Ferrari
308 & 328
Jaguar
XKE
Jensen
Jensen Healey
Lotus
7 & 7A
Eclat
Elan (RWD)
Elan +2
Elite (1216cc)
Elite 2+2
Esprit (non-turbo)
Europa
Maserati
BiTurbo
Mazda
MX-5 Miata (not including 2007 MSR) (2006-13)
RX-7 Turbo (1987-91)
RX-8
Mercedes-Benz
SLK
Morgan
Plus 8
Nissan
300ZX Turbo (1990-96)
350Z (all) (2003-09)
370Z (2009-13)
Pontiac Solstice (non-GXP, non-Z0K) (2006-09)
Porsche
356 Carrera (4-cam)
911 (non-turbo, NOC)
911 Club Sport
914 (all)
928 (all)
944 (16v)
944 Turbo (all)
968
Carrera 2 & Carrera 4 (964 chassis)
Saturn
Sky (2006-09)
Scion
FR-S
Subaru
BRZ
Toyota
MR2 Supercharged
MR2 Turbo
TVR
8-cyl & V6

GoodfellaFD3S

Be careful going for wheels just based on weight...... there is an article floating around Japan where they compared the RPF1 to the newer (slightly heavier and stronger) PF01 on a tight circuit and the PF01 were faster.

From personal experience running the Tail of the Dragon with Fikse wheels vs RPF1, the spoke flex in transitions could be felt from the driver's seat. I liked my RPF1s quite a bit. Not knocking them, but sometimes 'light' may be 'too light'

Tried searching the web for the article I'm looking for and came up empty. Will have my buddy from SakeBomb Garage forward it to me.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you feel your wheel spokes flexing while tooling around on the street?

forgive me for out loud

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

Given the clearance between stock RX8 calipers and 17x9 RPF1 ET45 wheels I would expect some evidence of scraping if there was any flex, but I have not seen that. I would love to see some real data on this if anyone has it.

GoodfellaFD3S

So in your world, Tail of the Dragon = Tooling Around on Street?

If you're having spoke flex problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a straightaway ain't one

Random vid to give you an idea:

scorcherjf

While I don't deny that light rims might have some flex, I think it's ultimately imperceptible to the human driving the car... I think that's what team was implying.

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

Have to agree. I've been to the Dragon, and it's still street driving, and is still "tooling around" compared to autoX. You're more likely feeling the tire rolling over or tread squirm, if you're actually feeling anything at all. Even if the wheels are flexing (and all wheels do a bit), you're not going to feel that no matter how sensitive your butt is.


No "negative changes," but the biggest change is that the MS-R and Z0K are bumped up to BS. So that is a big change in the class, and for the better, IMO.

j9fd3s

nobody does. how on earth would you collect such data? would you not have to bolt the wheel to some fixture and push on the rim and measure deflection/vs force?

it looks like a really cool drive, and i wish it was closer so i could bring a car, but yeah its just tooling around on the street.

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

Probably, although I was not expecting anyone to have actually gone that far. A reasonable alternative might be some before/after scraping pics or blind back to back lap times with a consistent driver (I don't really expect to see even this much to be honest).
It is a bit harsh/extreme to say it in that way, but yeah, this is the RX-8 Competition/Racing sub-forum after all :-)

Anyway, I think we've now completely gone off topic...

j9fd3s

yeah if it rubs, or does something obvious maybe. laptimes seem like it might be hard to sort the noise vs an improvement?

i actually never would have thought to test something like a wheel, so it was not a bad thing for rich to bring up at all, i just question the raciness of a 30mph public road as a test venue...

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

OK, now that I thought about this some more I honestly can't believe wheel flex is an issue. The wheel can't be flexing more than a few mm if that and just think about how much the tire would flex in comparison under the same load, not to mention the suspension bushings, arms, chassis, etc.

Wheel strength might be an issue. If the wheel is not strong enough, then it will bend or break if you hit a pothole, kerb, stone or other debris. As any wheel will break if you hit it hard enough in the right way it is a bit hard to judge wheel strength based on forum posts showing broken wheels. Actually, positive results are more helpful than negative ones, i.e. I broke my RPF1s at Laguna Seca does not tell us much, but I've done 24 events on my RPF1s and the wheels are in great shape means they are probably strong enough (at least for that driver and car on those tracks!)

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

It would be better named 'Tale of the Fast & Furious Wannabe Racers Thinking They're All That When They Aren't'. It just a curvey paved road through the mountains. The grip level is not that good compared to any number of premium asphalt surface tracks and brushed concrete airport sites used for autox and road race circuits. Making such claims in a racing forum, where people can and do routinely exceed the maximum limits of adhesion during real competition with real racing setups without endangering innocent citizens, seems rather silly. Risking the life of yourself and others by charging into blind turns on a public road may be thrilling, but its hardly a bechmark for out right handling performance.