jenkins-crew

There's a real fun hairpin turn at 820 N. and Mark IV PARKWAY :D

clyde

Don't worry about wear to your brakes or your clutch. The difference in wear to the components between heel & toeing or just braking isn't enough that it will make a difference in the time that you own the car. Even if you drive it 250,000 miles, maybe you'd have to replace the clutch once more, or do the brakes once more. It's just not a big deal.

I do recommend learning how to heel & toe, though. It will teach you a lot about smooth control inputs, braking modulation, balance and how your car works. Those are all skills that will benefit you and your passengers over time even if you never go out on a track, autocross course or anything like that...and apply to more than just shifting.

I think that you said earlier that you're 16? If that's the case, and you just learned to drive a stick, your upshifts, while likely better than your downshifts, probably aren't very smooth easier. It's something that takes time and miles to get right. Don't force it, just work on it each time you're in the car and the improvements will come. WRT heel & toe, the sooner you learn how to do it, the better. It's best to start with good habits (or working on learning the right way to do things) because they will last a lifetime. Pick up bad habits now, and, well, they last a lifetime too...and get more and more difficult to unlearn as time goes on. FWIW, I first started trying to self-teach myself heel & toe downshifting a few months after I got my license on my 16th birthday. The first heel & toe downshift that I felt I did perfectly came on the night of my 17th birthday.

Good luck.

dazygirl415

I'll have to try that... Have you ever come east on 20/30 when it splits? If you take the 20 option there's a huge stretch of highway where no cops can patrol and the curve is so slight that it doesn't effect your speed.... if you know what i mean....

jenkins-crew

I know exactly what you mean, that's where I speed test, got my 2001 civic over 125

dazygirl415

:D I hit 124 on Sunday. I could have gone faster, but there were cars in the way.

jenkins-crew

that's what always happens to me...havn't tried in the 8 yet, no body lives out west any more.

dazygirl415

I think I'm going to try again, only closer to night time, when the weather gets better.

jenkins-crew

Try it Sat after your exhaust is on :D

dazygirl415

Good idea! I think I will! :D

dazygirl415

You know you can take White Settlement road west and it's all curvy and hilly... and it runs into 20 right where you can get on and it'll split. It's perfect.

jenkins-crew

Hmmmm..............good Sunday drive...

Ajax

Saturday I went from Mesquite to Addison in 9 minutes.

I probably averaged 120 :b

EDIT: Oh right.. heel and toe.. there's a great video by one of our posters here who goes by the name of gansan. Do a search for him and heal and toe and you should find it.

salituro64

I don't hold the brake while blipping the gas. Why does this need to be done? I put in the clutch, brake to the point I want to be, then take my foot off the brake, blip the gas and let out the clutch. I'm still learning though. I can say when I do it right, you kick out of the corner like a whip.

Ajax

Because riding the clutch around a corner is bad. You have no engine braking and no traction that way. You're basically just rolling in neutral, wearing on the clutch and the brakes.

You're better off braking with the car in gear anyway until about 15mph (18 it seems in the rx8) where the car starts to buck. That way you're using the engine/drivetrain as well as the brakes and the brakes dont wear as fast.

Going around a corner with the clutch in isnt a bad thing for everyday driving, but for race driving it's a big time no-no.

dazygirl415

Ok, so I tried this heel-toe thing on the way home from work and I think I need to practice a bit. I can barely fit my feet on both pedals without contorting my body into a very unnatural position, and I'm afraid of shifting/gassing/breaking/clutching with the right pedals in the right spot. I think I'll take the suggestion of trying it when I'm parked to get the motions down right.

Ajax

http://homepage.mac.com/gkawano/heel%20and%20toe.mov

There's the video i mentioned. Note he's wearing racing shoes and the distance between the pedals.

dazygirl415

Way cool! But my feet aren't that big. I can barely reach the gas like that.

Ajax

I have the opposite problem.. lol.. my feet are too big..

paulyg

I'm with this guy. You are not doing any catostrphic engine damage driving like you are. Learning to heel-toe, and rev-match will make you a better driver. It's not something that comes easily or quickly however. I have been driving stick for 10 years and just recently started to learn and practice heal-toeing. It's taken my months to get smooth at it and there is still room for improvement. I still jerk the car in slower situations. You will find its "easier" to heel-toe when braking hard vs. just normal around town driving. Just keep practicing and be safe and you will be a pro in a few months.

expo1

Whenever this topic comes up this video is good. Doesn't make Heel & Toe seem easy but it's in a RX-8

dazygirl415

OK. I didn't do the heel-toe thing in my old car and I had it for 5 years without a clutch probolem. Perhaps "riding the clutch" really isn't an issue? Sure if you do it all the time it'll be a problem, but do you really have to heel-toe at every turn?

Rhawb

Er, well heel-toe isn't really a requirement for driving stick, it's just an extra technique you can learn. It won't conserve your engine or transmission, but it won't necessarily hurt it either (when done correctly). I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but if you're talking about the video, heel-toe is very beneficial as a racing technique because it keeps the car in its powerband and keeps the car's balance from being upset mid-turn by a gear change. Doing it on public roads isn't necessary, it's just fun if you can do it proficiently. Riding the clutch, on the other hand, can cause some serious wear on your transmission, so that's pretty much never recommended.

Rob Lay

I'm an experienced heel-toe'r in various cars, but have been unable to hit it in the RX-8. I think my problem is I'm use to the standard technique of "rolling" side to side or big toe-little toe vs. heel-toe. Very few actual racers "heel-toe". The pedals in a race car are so close that you get on the right side of the brake with your big-toe and then blip the gas by "rolling" over with your big-toe on the brake still. Maybe in the RX-8 they are spaced far enough that to pull it off, you really do need to "heel-toe". I'll give it a try.

Also, agree with others, "heel-toe" isn't something you NEED on the street, but it is fun and if driving wasn't meant to be fun, we wouldn't buy RX-8's. Brakes are much cheaper than drivelines!

HeelnToe

It's possible to get your heel onto the throttle. Problem for me is I tend to lift my leg when I do that, and my knee bumps into the steering wheel. I have more room if I push the seat back, but I can't stand driving arms-out like that. If only we had a telescoping wheel...

I tried rolling my foot, as you kids suggested, and found it much more comfortable to do. It also involves much less movement, so it feels more simple, more precise and quick. BUT... I can't do it with sneakers... only with my very well-worn shoes

Kart Racer

i have no problems doing it. I just put the ball of my foot on the brake, and roll my toes to blip the accelerator.....its pretty easy in this car, try doing it on a VW....its alot further apart