Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I have recently done two days at Mid Ohio to start of the 2010 tracking season.

I am getting rather tired of pushing on the dead pedal and having sore muscles for a couple of days afterward. (I run sticky hoosier rubber so relatively fast through the corners)

I am trying to find a solution to this problem. I use a sparco racing seat for the track (see picture attached). The seat is bolted directly to a custom made bracket (no sliders).

I want to fit a harness (either 4 or 3 point - still not sure what is the practical difference). I know that ideally this should be done in combination with a roll bar. However if I am willing to take the risk and install a harness without a roll bar. (What follows below may appear as a sequence of dumb questions but bear with me and help a newbie out)

What kind of harness should I get and how should it be installed?

From the installation pictures I have been looking at, I gather that if I get a 3 point harness, I can simply attach the rear strap into the backseat seat belt receptacle.

The right side belt should be attached directly to the bracket, instead of the seat belt bucket receptacle.

The left belt should be attached to the rear left bracket mounting hole. Or should the left side belt be connected to the floor seat belt rail in the back?

Do I need to remove the rear seat if I go with a 4 point harness?

Finally, what if I got with just the bottom part of the harness (this is a hypothetical), attached it to the rear seat belt rail on the left and to the rear right bracket bolt on the right?

If the bolt idea does not work I can make an extra hole in the mounting bracket, in the part that you would normally attach the seatbelt receptacle to.

Any other ideas on what I can do?

All constructive input is appreciated.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Drill and tap out the rear seat bracket holes to 7/16"-20 (UNF) and then use standard eyebolts in place of OE bolts with clip-on ends for the lap belt mounting. Alternatively the bolt on the left rocker panel that mounts the front end Of the seat belt rail is already that thread type so you can put the left side eyebolt there and just drill/tap the inboard rear seat mount hole only This is also true for the inner buckle mount on the seat. Alternatively you get the bolt-on belt ends and just bolt them down between the seat rail and the floor mounts using the OE hardware, but then the belt is bolted in and always laying around when not in use. With the eyebolts & clip-on belt ends you can remove/install the lap belt as needed.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Sit closer (most people sit too far back) and use your legs to brace yourself against the tunnel and door. I bought some eBay foam pads to put in those spots and I don't have any trouble staying in position and am not sore after a long weekend. And it's not like I exercise at all...

Also, do you know the trick for locking the stock seat belt? Makes a huge difference.

between the pads, sitting closer, and locking the stock belt, I'm almost as firmly planted as I am in my race car with a 5-point and full race seat.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

wankelbolt, thanks for the input but I am not sure you read my post:

1) I sit properly, 2) I don't want to brace myself with my legs (that is precisely what I am trying to avoid 3) The seat is bolted to the floor, can't do anything with seat belt.

Team - thanks for the explanation. I think I prefer going with the eyebolts & clips idea.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I have a 3-point Schroth harness if you're interested. It's brand new, never used with the clip on belt and eyebolt hardware. It was given to me by a sponsor maybe 10 years ago, but never installed. Think I hauled it to Texass last week so it'd be 2.5 weeks before I get back there again.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Anyone uses just the lap belt (what I described as the bottom part of the harness)? Are those sold separately?

Seems like a safer solution while still offering improved 'positioning' / grip.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The lap belt will generally help a lot, but they typically charge as much for just that as a full 5 or 6 point.

The harness I have is similar to the pic, but is black. I'll give you a super deal on it assuming I can get it to you in time.



.

altiain

iTrader: (3)

Replied to your PM. I'm quite happy with my lap belt only solution. Sparco is one major manufacturer that sells 3" lap belts separately - you can buy the lap belt (which includes the camlock) and later add shoulder or sub belts if you want to.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

I did read your post but sounds like I wasn't clear enough.

I should have said "most people think they sit properly". I don't know your experience level so forgive me for making assumptions, but if you have to push on the dead pedal that hard your seating position is suspect in my opinion.

Why not? Done properly you are using a modest percentage of the power of the big muscles in your thighs and your lower legs are free to work the pedals. Wish I could find the article now but years ago Grassroots Motorsports had some hotshoe give his tips for driving a street car at-speed and he talked about bracing with your legs.

So the stock seat belt isn't in the car? I didn't read that in your post. If it's still in the car, you can do the trick to lock it. Do you know the trick or not?

I'm not trying to blow smoke up your hindquarters. I'm nowhere near Team's level, but I do have some experience here and you did ask for constructive criticism. I thought I might be able to give you some useful information. I'm sorry if you don't find it useful.

This is with just knees, the factory belt, and belt trick: Youtube video

I'm not moving much, right? Did three days on the Shenandoah and only my neck was sore.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for you input;

I fail to see how my seat position (which is spot on) is a problem based on how much bracing I have to do. I can continue doing what I am doing but I want some additional support.

Given that I have full bucket seat which is bolted to a bracket, the stock seat belt is pretty much useless. In fact I do believe that I would be held better in my stock seat locking the seat belt but I don't want to do that.

In addition I have never been to Shenandoah. But Mosport and Mid Ohio require too much 'leg pressing' in certain corners for my liking.

Also, I am not sure what tires you run but as I mentioned the Koni Spec Hoosiers are pretty sticky.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Team - sent you a pm. Get back to me when you have the time as I want to make a decision sooner rather than later.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I probably won't be back in Dallas until 4/24

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Anyone can do you (read me) a favor and ship it from Dallas without you?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Sorry, no. Relocating there on my own, it's boxed up in a storage unit, and I have the keys.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Update on my search. Sparco was the only manufacurer who made the 3" camlock lap belt. They no longer make this product. All tuning harnesses are interconnected thus my options seems to be:

1) Trying to find a used one
2) Buying a Sparco (or other) competition harness that can be separated into just the lap belt.

Any forums except SCCA that I should post a WTB ad at?

Trackrat

iTrader: (1)

I don't know the trick, unless your talking about the CGLOCK system, will you share?

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Seat in your stock seat. Move seat back, further than you would normally seat while driving on track. Secure the seat belt, lock the seat belt (so it does not provide 'additional give'. Move forward to your regular driving position. The seat belt has been locked and now provides support in a fashion similar to a harness.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

^ forgot to add, the general idea is to have the seat belt locked and tight so that you are held in place.

NotAPreppie

My seatbelt lock method (for autocross) is this:

1. Sit in seat
2. adjust to comfortable racing position (usually much closer to steering wheel than street driving)
3. buckle seatbelt normally
4. pull as much slack as you can from the lap belt by pulling up on the shoulder belt and feeding it back into the reel
5 continue holding tension on the lap belt by pulling up on the shoulder belt with your right hand
6 with your left hand, jerk down on the shoulder belt from the top to lock it
7 continue holding with your left hand while unbuckling the seatbelt (to keep it locked)
8 twist the seatbelt latch 360-degrees and re-insert into the buckle (depending on how much slack you took up in step 4 this may take some effort)

The seatbelt should stay locked and tight against your chest and lap.

Or, you can install a harness.

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Both above methods will work. I've used them both, but now I use this:

Method that doesn't involve moving the seat:

1. Fasten seat belt and pull tight.
2. Hold buckle and release belt.
3. Allow it to retract 4-6".
4. Jerk it so the centrifugal lock catches.
5. Fasten locked seat belt. It will take both hands and you'll have to suck your gut in.

It takes a little practice and you may have to do it more than once to get the tightness right, but it's easier for me than moving the seat around. YMMV.

It would be nice if it was like the passenger side where it will switch to rachet mode when you pull the belt all the way out. I wonder if RHD passenger belts do the same thing? Wonder if Mazdaparts would import for something less than ridiculous prices?

Trackrat

iTrader: (1)

good morning rotorheads. seat belt trick sounds like it could release at a inappropriate time.
I tried this and it works. http://www.cg-lock.com/statement.html

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

It could. But in two years of tracking and autocrossing my 8, it hasn't.

CG lock has been around for a while and many folks like it. I don't. And the $50 went to gas instead.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I actually have the Schroth harness here not in TX like I thought, but just noticed that you're in Canada. I don't want to bother with the shipping declaration etc. So sorry and good luck.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

So after doing some research, I have ordered a Leaf 3" lap belt (pic attached). The Sparco 3" camlock lapbelt is discontinued so it came down to Leaf (a Canadian company) and Crow (a California) company. I have decided to support the local economy (even though it is going to cost me more).

This solution seems like the best compromise, in my situation.

Team - I am in Windsor right now and have a shipping address in Detroit so if the lapbelt solution does not work and your harness is still around I may get.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

OK, let me know. I have it in the trunk.